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9mm JHP's and Blue Dot

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Camu Mahubah, May 14, 2011.

  1. Camu Mahubah

    Camu Mahubah 9=Fine

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    Nov 11, 2010
    Nebraskastan
    My shooting buddy just picked up a Lee Classic and some Blue Dot powder and we started saving our brass. Due to putting up the cash to get the Lee and Blue Dot and primers my buddy ran low on funds and I volunteered to buy some bullets.

    Went to the local shop and they had Nosler 115gr JHP's and Hornady XTP 124gr JHP's. I bought 100 of the XTP and 250 of the Nosler.

    So far my buddy has safely loaded some 124 FMJ's that functioned in his Beretta and he uses a reloading manual but I want things to be done safely...so is there any special considerations to be taken or observed when loading JHP's?

    Searching the web I see some people don't like Blue Dot at all for 9mm but the guy at Cabela's recommended it to him. I don't know much about reloading but my buddy is a smart guy and he has been reading a ton about reloading and of course scouring the web for reloading info of all sorts...

    I just thought I'd see if anybody here had any experience with Blue Dot and the 9mm. Thanks For Your Time
     
  2. Boxerglocker

    Boxerglocker Jacks #1 Fan

    6,148
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    Mar 6, 2003
    Lynnwood, WA
    There is the problem :steamed: Some idiot behind the counter trying to make a sale. BlueDot is much to violent a powder for 9mm IMHO. I did a lot of research on it and came to the same conclusion you already have, not much data cause no one really uses it for that application. Everyone I every talked to about Bluedot for 9mm said the same... huge velocity spreads, not close to linear for 9mm. Even 9mm major guys won't use it.
     

    Last edited: May 16, 2011

  3. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    18,083
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    May 31, 2007
    Old Colorado City
    I loaded some 9mm with blue dot in an effort to get rid of it.


    It didn't go any faster than the loads I do with Unique, but it sure was louder and had a lot more flash. It will work for 9mm, but I'd point you to Unique or WSF for full power 9mm.


    So after not liking Blue Dot in .357 mag, .44 mag and 9mm, I still have half a pound left that might just get used for fertilizer, or to burn out some rattlesnakes. :whistling:
     
  4. albyihat

    albyihat

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    Aug 3, 2007
    SW Montana
    I have never used blue dot for anything other than .357mag, but my neighbor uses it for his 9mm loads and he loves it. I have been trying to get him to try a different powder but he says if it ain't broke... So for what it is worth he has been using blue dot in 9mm for over 8yrs with no problems. I have to agree with the above posts talking about blue dots flash and loudness other than that i see no problem with it
     
  5. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    9,269
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    Jan 26, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    I find a bunch of Blue Dot loads in "The Complete Reloading Manual for the 9mm Luger." The manual is a compilation of a bunch of manuals. Just about half of the reloading manuals listed (Hornady, Nosler, Sierra and Speer) have a Blue Dot load. The other half are powder manufacturers (so why would they list a competitor).

    I shot Blue Dot almost exclusively in my 9mm reloads for twenty years. I got some pretty accurate loads out of it. If you stick to published data, you should be fine.

    That said, in the last few years, I have been looking for a new 9mm powder and I've tried a few.

    Since I'm using a progressive press, I'm no longer happy with the way Blue Dot meters in my press. Especially, since I had some really hot Blue Dot loads (from an old Speer #11 manual) blow a magazine out of my gun on a cold night. It seems Blue Dot is temperature sensitive (you can read the Blue Dot sticky in this forum if you like).
    You probably don't need to worry about the temperature problem since the Blue Dot load that I got from an old manual was like 1.2 grains hotter than anything anybody would publish today.
    But, combine Blue Dots metering problems with it's tendency to sometimes behave like a different powder at a different temperature, and I think there is a reason to be cautious with maximum Blue Dot loads.
    Will I ever use Blue Dot in 9mm again? Yes.
    Am I searching for a powder to replace it? Yes.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  6. leeward419

    leeward419

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    43.12 / 77.67
    It is really good for heavier bullets, like the 147 HPXTP and very accurate with the heavier bullets
     
  7. Ahmid

    Ahmid CLM

    2,531
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    Feb 6, 2007
    S.E.Florida
    That is the same thing I used it for, fertilizer. Don't like it for anything.
     
  8. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    9,269
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    Jan 26, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Ironically, it works for everything and is frequently very accurate.
     
  9. I don't think BlueDot was really a BAD choice for 9mm. There is a lot of data for it out in the world. Better powder choices are available though.

    With your buddy being a NooB at this using BlueDot will certainly reduce the chance of a double charge as one would overflow the case.

    It's bright and flashy. That's why I like it for 357 Magnum.

    All the Best,
    D. White
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  10. Camu Mahubah

    Camu Mahubah 9=Fine

    1,224
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    Nov 11, 2010
    Nebraskastan
    Yah I think the guy behind the counter recommended Blue Dot because he figured it would be difficult to go Kaboom with it I guess...because it takes up the whole case just to do 8 grains with the 125gr bullet.

    Guys Im not super worried my buddy has already done up a batch that worked but it was Winchester FMJ 125 gr. He said he used 8 grains of Blue Dot and it was smooth shooting. Im concerned about OAL with these two different brands of HP's.

    Does Hornady and Nosler have recommendations on their site? I just got home and haven't had a chance to look myself yet...

    And for all to read I did recommend Power Pistol to my bud but the Cabela's guy swayed him at the cash register!
     
  11. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    9,269
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    Jan 26, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    8 grains is a very hot load for Blue Dot for 125 grain 9mm.
    It is over the maximum that Alliant lists for Blue Dot on it's site.
    http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=124&shellid=23&bulletid=26

    Here are two published loads which I believe that you should use. It's best to be a little conservative until you've done this a few years.
    ______________________________
    Hornady Bullets 9mm 124 grain XTP
    Blue Dot
    minimum = 4.8 grains @ 900 fps
    maximum = 6.6 grains @ 1100 fps
    -----------------------
    Sierra Bullets 9mm 125 grain FMJ
    Blue Dot
    minimum = 6.2 grains @ 900 fps
    maximum = 7.6 grains @ 1050 fps
    ___________________________
     
  12. Camu Mahubah

    Camu Mahubah 9=Fine

    1,224
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    Nov 11, 2010
    Nebraskastan
    THanks I'll tell him for the XTP. Could you please PM or quote me a load for the Nosler 115 HP's?

    Im listening and so is he....thanks again...
     
  13. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    9,269
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    Jan 26, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    The load from the Nosler Manual honestly seems very hot to me.
    I would highly recommend starting out at the minimum (which is designated as the most accurate of the two loads).

    9mm 115 Gr FMJ or 115 Gr Hollow Point
    Blue Dot
    Minimum - 7.5 grains = 1030 fps
    Maximum - 8.5 grains = 1130 fps
    NOTE: Speer Bullets lists 8.5 grains of Blue Dot as pushing a 115 grain Gold Dot at 1258 fps
    _______________________________
    The Alliant manual is in the unfortunate habit of only listing the maximum load.

    http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=115&shellid=23&bulletid=25
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  14. fredj338

    fredj338

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    so.cal.
    The diff in loading FMJ vs JHP is OAL. THe same rule goes for all bullet style; load to the longest OAL your gun will run. For most 9mm & trucnated cone JHP, that is going to max out around 1.130", as the sharp shoulder of the ogive hits rilfing sooner than a gentle sloping ogive of most FMJ. Use your removed bbl as a gage. Make a dummy round @ 1.150" & drop it in. It should sit flush w/ the bb hood.
    Another way to do it, a bit more accurate, w/ your gun assembled, slide closed, put a cleaning rod down the bbl until it stops, mark the rod at the muzzle end. Now remove the bbl & put a bullet into the chamber, hold it touching the rifling & measure again w/ the cleaning rod. That is the max length for that bullet in that bbl. Subtract 0.015" for safety margin & that is the max OAL for that barrel. Make sure it fits the magazine. Make a dummy round that length, put itin th emag & fill the mag w/ factory rounds, if it doesn't bind anywhere that is the max OAL for your pistol.
    Keep in mind that w/ small volumn/high pressure rounds like the 9 & 40, small changes to OAL can have large affects on pressure.
    BlueDot, yeah pretty hard to get into trouble w/ a 9mm. You can not double & an overcharge probably overflows the case. THough 8gr is pushing well into +P unless you are loading very long, like 1.150". There are better choices, but BD will work. I don't like the muzzle blast or poor metering so have moved on. It doesn't get a whole lot better than WSF for everyday loads.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  15. Camu Mahubah

    Camu Mahubah 9=Fine

    1,224
    0
    Nov 11, 2010
    Nebraskastan
    Thanks So Much Y'all my shooting buddy is a smart dude and he is gonna enjoy and learn from this thread! Thanks Again!
     
  16. Philippe

    Philippe

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    Jan 26, 2011
    STL
    I would honestly switch over to Universal, Power Pistol or Silhouette.
     
  17. The Lyman Pistol manual lists 115 grain Jacketed HP with Blue Dot, 6.8 to 7.6 grains, with an OAL 1.090 minimum. I use Blue Dot for .38 special and .44 mag. I like the ease in identifying the powder while its in the hopper.
    Always stay between listed loadings, don't start higher then the mid point.
     
  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Dec 22, 2004
    so.cal.
    I use removeable labels, write the powder on that & stick it on the measure. Then you always know.:supergrin:
     
  19. OJ.

    OJ. N.E. Ohio Glock

    149
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    Mar 26, 2008
    Hornady is really conservative, I loaded ten test rounds with Blue Dot at 5.1 grains and they would not function the slide properly on my Sig.

    Now the full power load worked well and very accurate, but their are better 9mm powders.



     
  20. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    9,269
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    Jan 26, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    I figure we've got a new reloader here and it is better to steer him into conservative loads (since they'll probably go for the maximum load on their first outing).

    I've had the same problem with Hornady a number of times.