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9mm Armscor - Open Gun??

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by New_comer, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. Need your inputs on something I'm cooking up as my next gun project ;)

    I'd like to build a dirt cheap open class IPSC gun, possibly over a couple of years, using the 9mm Armscor hicap as base. Obviously, it would have to end up as a 38 super. Now my questions:
    1. Would a conversion to 38 super be too complicated a task?
    2. What would be my mandatory purchases? Like what is the base priced optic out there, compensator, mounts, etc...
    3. Can the barrel just be reamed later to 38 super specs?

    And for the fun of it, how would you proceed in buiding your own 'dirt cheap' open gun?

    Thanks guys :cool:
     
  2. ogiebb

    ogiebb

    587
    0
    Oct 21, 2003
    MESA, ARIZONA
    even though lahat sila under sa .355 diameter family, ide set my mind on what caliber now before the build, also you have to consider on the source of ammo. 9 major is a totally different beast i have a long list of load data that i used to load up on my short stint in my 38 supercomp that i cant use on my 9mm major open gun..if you dont reload and value your brass a lot stick with the 38 super..optics ide go with a Cmore serendipity (kasi hinde na kailangan ng mount;f ) just ease up on the tightening of the screws baka mag crack,on the comp its much more of a personal feel i like short comps now. its not the size that matters pala;f ;f ;f ..about the reaming the barrel part medyo think twice about it. ive seen some 10mm reamed for .40 and the opposite way around pag medyo sloppy yung gunsmith mo.. accuracy will indeed suffer sometimes worst, in the end pick a good gunsmith ...good luck in your venture to the dark side;f ;f ;f
     


  3. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter Moderator

    8,193
    1
    Nov 21, 2002
    Dr. B. Eye
    how inexpensive is cheap?

    nope. they share the same slide, mags, extractor, ejector. you need to tune it to 38 super specs

    US made comps start at $150-200. Locally made ones around 5-7.5k

    TP aluminum 1-side mount 3.5k but it vibrates and develops cracks.
    US made mount $70-90 (Allchin, STI, DP, Brazos)

    OKO 16k, C-More Serendipity brand new 18-20k (mc_o is selling his gray serendipity for 1/2 the price!)

    you need to ream the barrel as the 9mm is a tapered round. best bet is to get a complete barrel and comp set. I got an sps barrel and comp set from pbd last year.

    gunsmithing cost = ?
     
  4. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter Moderator

    8,193
    1
    Nov 21, 2002
    Dr. B. Eye
    [​IMG]

    Here're my accumulated parts for my open gun project. I'm having second thoughts about re-cutting and re-milling my STD Para Frame as the SPS barrel is a Nowlin cut. I'll probably get an armscor frame instead.

    I plan to cut the serendipity mounts and convert it to a railway using the allchin mount but ogiebb and mc_o advised to use the serendipity instead and have spacers made as the mounts came from another pistol and they're wider on the Para frame.
     
  5. ogiebb

    ogiebb

    587
    0
    Oct 21, 2003
    MESA, ARIZONA

    doc,

    oo nga pala sayang yung para frame mo , na ka fit na din yan sa ibang caliber di ba?..

    yung gray na c more ni MCo mukhang ok to start with mukhang ganda pa ng presyo...
     
  6. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter Moderator

    8,193
    1
    Nov 21, 2002
    Dr. B. Eye
    ogie: Yep. Yan yung frame na binibenta ni cute noon sa pb bago ka umalis. Ako nakakuha. Limited blaster ko. Will most probably get another frame instead.
     
  7. As in I wouldn't have to worry that my gun isn't made from the better parts available in the market, nor assembled by a named gunsmith. As long as it would work up to IPSC standards, I'm fine with that.

    Pang Casio lang ba, hindi Tag, pero very functional for its intended purpose. ;)
     
  8. mc_oliver

    mc_oliver

    3,499
    0
    Feb 21, 2002
    Philippines
    Gad! Kung mey pasensya lang sana ako, kaso wala kaya scrap muna open gun idea ko. ;f

    My plan was this:

    1. Armscor 9mm widebody.
    2. Cut the slide 0.25" or so
    3. Thread a comp in the orig bull barrel
    4. Slap on a Cmore.
    5. Syempre smith the gun for trigger work and reliability, etc.

    Tapos! ;)

    6. Run with the 9 using SP2 or N350 powder.
    7. Kung mukhang tagilid and 9, ream the barrel for 38 super.

    ;)
     
  9. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter Moderator

    8,193
    1
    Nov 21, 2002
    Dr. B. Eye
    meron akong extrang compensator. local copy ng Dawson TJ Comp. ibenta ko na lang sa inyo kung matuloy open gun project ninyo.

    i-aalok ko na lang din muna kay batangueno yung allchin mount kung gusto niya.
     
  10. Yan ang tukoy ko! ;f Dagdagan na lang ng Pascual na magwell, talu-talo na! ;)


    Bos Mc_o, magkano kaya iyan lahat? Aabot bang sesenta? Kung 50 or less, malamang 'go' na ako!:cool:
     
  11. mc_oliver

    mc_oliver

    3,499
    0
    Feb 21, 2002
    Philippines
    If you can wait for the new frame armscor, tingnan mo muna. Tipid ka na dun sa pagpabilog nung grip area. However, I'm not sure how much will be the price once it's released. If you can find someone willing to part with their 9mm widebody okay din.

    The red dot scope will set you off mga 15-20K siguro. The OKO is nice and relatively cheap at about 10K. Pero you'll need a mount for it. The old two-piece mount is about 4K yata, pero I'm not sure how long the mounting area will last.

    Lalampas ka ng 50K but baka 'di abot ng 65K. Try checking your smith how much are the ff:

    1. Slide cutting (saka na lang ang lightening cuts). But stick to the gov't length recoil spring. Which means, use a full length guide rod at reverse plug. Yung plug medyo lalabas sa harap ng slide.
    2. Comp installation and fitting
    3. Trigger job
    4. Reliability work
    5. Scope mounting

    Bili ka ng mec-gar na 9/38S na mags plus basepads, rock n roll na.

    Good luck.

    ;)
     
  12. Fonzy

    Fonzy

    69
    0
    Sep 8, 2004
    wow! how about for 40 cal route sir (if i had to ask, means i can't afford it ;f )?

    cheers!

    :cool:
     
  13. Nakita ko nga yung bagong grip ng armscor, bilugan na rin. Tapos maganda ang lock-up ng barrel-slide-link. Pero, baka pang display lang yun, balik original kung o-order ng bago. ;g

    Pero teka nga pala, doesn't Armscor produce a 38super gun from the get-go? Can't I just order one from them pre-reamed from the factory. SAM claims so in their website, well at least in the products' specs they do... ^8

    Also, about using a 9 in open, what would be the bullet specs in fps and PF. What size heads are ideal? I don't reload, so I'd depend on True weight to do it for me. TYVM
     
  14. ogiebb

    ogiebb

    587
    0
    Oct 21, 2003
    MESA, ARIZONA
    124g are good enough and easy to reach PF than 115g
     
  15. mc_oliver

    mc_oliver

    3,499
    0
    Feb 21, 2002
    Philippines
    Sa 40 cal palit barrel lang. I've seen a dual caliber run, armscor na naka 40 at mey spare 9 na barrel. Baka kelangan mo lang i-tweak yung extractor at 40 mags to be able to run 9. Proper fitting is the key here, so you'll need the services of a smith. ;)

    For IPSC, the minimum bullet weight for open is 120gr. So you'll probably use 124gr as minimum since that's more common. Search ka sa BE forums for 9x19 major loads, dami dun. The useable ones are using VV N350 at SP2 powders. Experimento 'to but take note you'll only need 160PF so start lower, mga 20% less.

    Armscor doesn't have 38 super in widebody format. Not sure kung meron sa singlestack.
     
  16. Yung experience ko sa 9mm reload e yung sa True Weight. Pag na-order ako, tinatanong ni Luz kung Standard o Major. Yung major nila using 131gr LRN's e nasa 137pf lang nung nag chrono sa Battle of the Gun Clubs last year. 4.2gr BA9 Vectan powder ang ginamit nila nuon, umabot lang ng 1045-1050fps. Para maka 160pf, dapat mga 1225fps. Tinanong ko kung pwede pang dagdagan, delikado na daw.

    Yun nga lang ang problema, baka walang mag-reload para sa kin ;g

    Di ko pa nasusubukan yung sa Stronghand kung tatanggap sila ng Major na 9mm. ^8

    Isa pa nga pala: Are Armscor firearms rated for +P loadings? Baka naman mahina yung barrel, mabuntis kaagad or worse...;P
     
  17. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter Moderator

    8,193
    1
    Nov 21, 2002
    Dr. B. Eye
    BA9 is a relatively fast burning powder similar to N320 and N340. Gamit for 9 major yata is SP2, Tru Blue, 3N37, 3N38. Yung N350 meron siguro sa stronghand
     
  18. mc_oliver

    mc_oliver

    3,499
    0
    Feb 21, 2002
    Philippines
    The reason you want SP2 is because it's a dense powder. With the short 9mm case, marami ka'ng mailagay before the load gets compressed. Yang major na sinasabi sa atin for the 9, ibig sabihin lang nyan pasok sa 125PF.

    Once you start with load development for the 9, baka kailangan mo'ng mag-sign ng waiver sa reloader. In case you blow yourself up, it'll be your fault alone.

    If you're not up to it, might as well go to 38 super. Dami loads at marami'ng kabisado mag-load for you. ;)
     
  19. ogiebb

    ogiebb

    587
    0
    Oct 21, 2003
    MESA, ARIZONA
    ive been loading a copuple of thousand rounds of 9mm these past few days..its a pain to find the right load data for it...the buzz around here is that SP2 is the best for 9 major...swerte nyo naman dyan, mura at maraming pwede kuhanan ng SP2...
     
  20. Eye Cutter

    Eye Cutter Moderator

    8,193
    1
    Nov 21, 2002
    Dr. B. Eye
    teka, sino ba may gawa ng SP2 powder? The only brands readily available here are Vithavuori, Vectan, ADI and OBP.