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9mm ammo used by Los Angeles Sheriffs?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by mikegun, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. remat

    remat

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    Mar 19, 2006
    Seattle, WA
    :rofl:
    At some point the 147gr haters will have to retract the tired mantra that there are not enough "street shootings" to "prove" that 147gr's work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2010
  2. remat

    remat

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    Mar 19, 2006
    Seattle, WA
    Ok, but I am pretty sure the OP cares since he asked.
     


  3. South Fla

    South Fla ©South Fla 2015

    3,917
    27
    Oct 10, 2006
    Duh...
    A Ruger with hand loads. (snicker...)

    + 1,000 this.
     
  4. ggarciatx

    ggarciatx Cold War Sailor

    552
    1
    Aug 28, 2004
    South Texas
    :upeyes:
    If I was a prosecuting attorney and I found your post on this and you were in court on using deadly force, I would be throwing this in your face.
     
  5. S. Kelly

    S. Kelly

    1,149
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    Jan 31, 2000
    Boston MA
    PhillyK9, how are the .45s going over? Lots of guys going to them?
     
  6. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
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    Jul 26, 2002
    hey guys. On the 147gr WWB thread here, we went all over the country about the WWB 147gr JHP.. I like it. I like 147gr'ers for the 9mil.

    on this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/handgun-ammunition/ranger/t-series/Pages/RA9T.aspx You will find the Ranger T RA9T series 147gr bullet at 990fps and 320ft lbs.

    On this link to WW: http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/usa/jhp/Pages/USA9JHP2.aspx You will find the WWB 147gr JHP athe exact same 990fps, and 320ft lbs.

    Now, being familiar with the latter. What is going to be the dif between these to other than $$$$ ?

    I mean what will the RA9T bullet do at the same specs, that the WWB at the same specs won't do ?




    Edited to say. I answered my own question and if you will continue to read, I also CORRECTED ALL MY TYPO's ERROR's

    Hope these were not an inconvenience to any one. I am sorry guys!

    Even I make mistakes !
    :wow:



    CanyonMan
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  7. remat

    remat

    2,049
    0
    Mar 19, 2006
    Seattle, WA
    I assume that the premium ammo is going to used nickel plated brass, use low flash/recoil powder, and be loaded to higher QC standards but I haven't actually seen any. I also assume that the pic is wrong and the WWB is a JHP and not a soft point :)

    So, anybody have a supplier for the WWB? I definitely want to try some!
     
  8. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    The WWB JHP is the old subsonic OSM load that was notorious for failing to expand and generally gave 147 grain loads their bad name.

    The Ranger ammo expands very reliably, uses low flash powder, has sealed cases, etc.

    Regards,
    Happyguy :)
     
  9. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    12
    Jul 26, 2002


    Well after I posted and re-read my post a couple of times, and thought about it, and rememberd some things, I actually answered my own concerns. It is really quite simple.

    The RA9T T series are very quick to expand, "not for me" I need penetration.
    After a long talk with a good friend of mine at Winchester ammo plant last weeK about the 147gr WWB JHP, it is a simple thing to understand.

    The RA9T T series are not going to penetrate like the WWB JHP because of the serations in the bullet from the pedal on down. The T series is designed to open fast, and the other design is a long standing bullet design for penetration. As My friend at WW and I talked about for almost an hour on the phone. Even the 127gr Ranger +P+ will not penetrate as far and deep as the WWB 147gr sub sonic. The latter, is designed to really penetrate. it was was originally desiged to be used in sniper rifles for the army years ago.

    As ART, my good friend at WW explained. This WWB 147gr JHP is a very well designed bullet for penetration and that is my agenda. Penetration. Not rapid expansion that as he said, really lacks in "Real world' senerios not jello and water jug test, but in real flesh and blood. I really had just went brain numb until, as I said, I re-read my own post, and answered my own question.


    Thanks for the replies boys. Appreciate it... ;)


    EDIT NOTE**** It was designed for sniper rifle, yes. But I originally had a major typo in here about the yardage.. Sorry ! Even I make mistakes ! ;)

    CanyonMan
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  10. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

    19,948
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    Sep 4, 2009
    U.S.A.
    Do you have any links to hard data showing actual penetration tests for the WWB JHP?

    If you favor penetration get the Ranger Bonded versions. The 124 gr +P actually penetrates more than the 147 gr in 4 layer denim and heavy cloth (by over 2").
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  11. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Sep 4, 2009
    U.S.A.
    A handgun cartridge for a 1000 yard sniper rifle??? :whistling:
     
  12. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    Actually it was designed for suppressed submachine guns. Hence the requirement that it be subsonic.

    Regards,
    Happyguy :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  13. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    The RA9T generally penetrates 16 inches or so in clothed gelatin. Do you really need more penetration than that? What are you shooting?

    When shooting clothed targets the WWB load rarely expands enough to justify the extra cost. You could just go with FMJ and save money IHMO.

    Regards,
    Happyguy :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  14. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    12
    Jul 26, 2002


    YES. Until we do are own testing (see below), feel fre to talk to art at WW. He is all the proof I need at the moment. His word and years of experience and "out there doing it" are fine for me, and as I said, we will do this for ourselves on more realistic terms as time allows.... Because water jug test and gelatin test are not a real world senerio. The test that we have not run on "this bullet yet", and will try to do later is the ribcage / hinqurter beef stuffed with organs and a couple of shirts and a coat thrown over it. These have proved to be far closer to the real world than a jello block or water hug with 4 layers of denim which no one in real life wears. ;)

    I understand that a bonded bullet out penetrates "usually" a non bonded.
    But i prefer a heavy for caliber bullet for more momentem and deeper pen.



    CanyonMan
     
  15. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    12
    Jul 26, 2002

    NO... EDITED***** I really made a major error in the 1,000 yd deal. It WAS designed to be a sniper round, but NOT at that distance. Major typo and eror on my part all. Sorry. ;)

    Read this thread that myself and some buds went through a few weeks ago.

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173831

    It is a long thread. But if you will read it all and take the time to go through it, it will be interesting info for ya on this WWB 147gr'er.



    CanyonMan
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  16. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    12
    Jul 26, 2002

    Well, not to be smart. But I am not shooting 4 layers of denim drapped over a gelatin block. ;) These test, although are as we all know 'standard procedure', they are not realistic.


    I here your thoughts on the "extra $$$,' but actually I can get the 50 count on these for around 18/25.00 depending on if my particular supplier has them, since they would only be used for SD I do not need a stock pile, but I hear where your comin from.




    CM
     
  17. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    What weapon/cartridge combo did they develop this bullet for?

    Regards,
    Happyguy :)
     
  18. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    12
    Jul 26, 2002
    Well you have 'assumed correctly on some of this." The WWB 147gr JHP does use a more FS powder than the older loads did for this round. Although they are not nickle plated, that is really not a concern to me. They feed excellent through the G19 of mine which is just a truck gun (my carry is a 45acp when in town). The G19 with this loading (WWB147), is a emergecy/or bobcat/coyote/ or whatever else shooter, or if need be in town carry when in the mood. ;) I switch back and forth so much to under the seat truck guns I can't keep up any way. One day its a 10mm, oneday a 45LC or 44mag, just depends on mood, OR where on the ranch I am going, or if I am driving into the big city. Just another toy. I actually bought this G19 for my wife, and have grown really fond of it myself now, and I don't like 9mm. ;)


    Adios




    CanyonMan
     
  19. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    5,707
    12
    Jul 26, 2002

    See: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1173831
    Post # 7. Plus as I said, I was also given the low down on this round buy my bud at WW. He confirmed what was said in the above thread and post.

    Pretty interesting (to me), He spoke very highly in a long gab session about this plain jane little WWB round. It is not for every one to be sure. But I do require a penetrating fool in whatever I shoot. So for me it is a JHP, but does penetrate like crazy. Since a do not carry a 9mil, and it is a part time truck gun, all is well for me with it out on the ranch for different things, or shoot, (no pun inteded), in town as well....


    Got to go boys and take care of some things, and then settle in for the SB game and hope that the COLTS do it right ! ;)


    Adios




    CanyonMan
     
  20. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    Good (accurate at the time) info about this load.

    http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Fackler_Articles/winchester_9mm.pdf

    Edited to add: I can find all kinds of references by reputable sources to this load being developed for our special forces for precision head shots in suppressed MP5's out to 50 yards, but nothing about it being developed as a 1000 yard sniper round.

    Regards,
    Happyguy :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010