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800X Chrono Data with 135 Noslers and 180 FP Berrys

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by Whaledriver, May 17, 2010.

  1. Whaledriver

    Whaledriver

    170
    0
    Dec 21, 2006
    Kansas
    Okay finally got out to try out the new Chrono (Pro Chrono) and to get some 10mm data. Here were the conditions:

    Ovecast
    Temp 61 F
    Pressure 29.99
    Altitude 1020'

    Load data:

    Starline Brass
    CCI 350 Primers
    Powder
    IMR 800x
    Also used a light crimp with Lee FCD

    Pistol is a stock G20sf.

    Okay first data is with Berry's 180 grain FP. I had worked up the load to a max published of 8.7. Here is my 8 shot string:

    1135
    1135
    1104
    1203
    1131
    1108
    1115
    1128

    Not sure what happened with the 1203. No pressure signs, no glock smiles. Otherwise accuracy seemed really good. Recoil was snappy but easily controllable.

    Next string is with the 135 grain Noslers with 12.0 charge:

    1510
    1515
    1522
    1538
    1501

    Fairly light recoil, no pressure signs, very accurate.

    Next is 135 Nosler with 12.5 charge:

    1556
    1561
    1561
    1576
    1580

    These had snappy recoil and flattened primers. No glock smiles.

    Same above with 12.6:

    1610
    1633
    1675
    1677
    1647

    Snappy recoil, flattened primers, no glock smiles

    Finally went to 12.7:

    1705

    Glock smile showed and I was done. Flattened primer. Did not want to test anymore. I am gonna go back to 12.0 as it seems fast enough for me and will not tear up my brass.

    Some notes on the chrono. I do like the ProChono only one error the whole time I shot. I will need to get the cord to hook up my laptop as being on a controlled range does not let you select the things you need in a timely manner.
     
  2. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,620
    121
    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    Thanks for the data. Interesting results - especially for the 135 gr Nosler.

    For the 180, it looks like you may have been straddling sub and supersonic velocities. Did you notice a "crack" with some loads and not others? I always find that weird.

    In my G20, I have run 800-X up to 14.5 grains based upon some old IMR data. Although that was with standard primers. I am getting 1690 fps ave velocity with 14.3 grains. That is not substantially higher than your data for 12.6 grain loads. Diminishing returns are obviously in play.

    In my experience, 800-X and mag primers cause flattened primers at charge levels lower than expected. Some people swear by mag primers for 800-X, but CCI 300s have worked better for me, in terms of pressure indications, at comparable velocities. Of course velocity spreads are tighter with the 350 primer.

    For the sake of gaining additional data points, I have loaded 135 gr Noslers over 11.0, 11.5, and 12.0 grains of 800-X. I've shot them at these charges before, but never over a chrony. I'm going to test them this Saturday after the IDPA match. I'll post my notes.

    Curious, do you have any photos of your primers for the 12.6 or 12.7 loads?
     


  3. Whaledriver

    Whaledriver

    170
    0
    Dec 21, 2006
    Kansas
    Tater,

    Never heard that about the 180s. I seem to learn something new all the time. I will try to get the pics of the primers for ya in the next couple of days. So you ran it up to 14.3 with a stock barrel?
     
  4. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,620
    121
    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    What I meant by the 180s and super/subsonic was that you had velocity measurements slightly above and below supersonic speeds. Supersonic velocities are 1125 fps +/- and you were right around those velocities. I always find it weird when you send rounds from a string that sometimes register that audible crack from the supersonic soundwave. Did you notice that at all?

    Thanks in advance for posting the pics.

    I actually tested all the way to the published max of 14.5. Yes with the stock barrel. But as I mentioned earlier, that was with a standard primer. Coincidentally, the average velocities for 14.3 and 14.5 were identical. I still have a bunch of them loaded up at 14.3 grains. I may shoot them in an IDPA match one of these days just for fun. Won't help my times any, but it'll get some attention.
     
  5. Waffentomas

    Waffentomas Semper Fidelis Millennium Member

    121
    0
    May 5, 1999
    Blue State
    I have actually, regularly, had lower velocities using 350 primers, vs. 300 primers, using 800x. It's the only powder I've ever had do this. It's usually only lower by 10 or 15 fps or so, but still...
     
  6. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,620
    121
    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    That is interesting that velocities are lower in your measurements. Mine have been slightly higher at similar charge weights, but with indications of higher pressures at a given velocity levels.

    Curious about the type of firearm you are using. Are you velocity spreads tighter with the 350?
     
  7. Waffentomas

    Waffentomas Semper Fidelis Millennium Member

    121
    0
    May 5, 1999
    Blue State
    The last time I tested I was using my old Colt Delta. It's pretty much stock. Deviations have always been higher using the 350s with this powder. Since it can be a finicky powder for good metering, I still use the Lee dippers for this powder; and this may be why...

    Tom
     
  8. preventec47

    preventec47

    265
    5
    May 2, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    Just a thought here since the Nosler 135 grainers are being used.

    Since it has been shown that they explode
    and fragment badly at the hi velocities,
    Sierra also has a 135gr Jacketed Hollow
    Point bullet which could be a little tougher
    than the Nosler. Dont know until someone
    tests them side by side.

    Also Berrys makes a plated solid bullet
    in 135gr but there seems to be widespread
    agreement that the copper plating does
    not do so well at ultra hi velocities.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  9. Whaledriver

    Whaledriver

    170
    0
    Dec 21, 2006
    Kansas
    Also interested in some tests with the Nosler 180 grain HPs. Wonder if they have a tendency to frag like the 135s do.
     
  10. preventec47

    preventec47

    265
    5
    May 2, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    I discovered that MagTech sells a 130gr all copper hollow point
    bullet which they also load in their 40SW ammo at a claimed
    velocity of 1190fps if my memory serves correctly.

    Judging from my experience with Barnes Bullets the all copper
    bullet has the potential to be very tough and avoid
    total fragmentation.

    I have sent inquiries regarding whether they have tested their
    all copper bullet at higher 10mm velocities. I also asked
    what the specific length of the bullet was for the purpose
    of calculating remaining case space.

    If I get a response I will forward to this group.
     
  11. ctkelly

    ctkelly

    36
    0
    May 9, 2010
    I've done some testing with the nosler using AA #7. Using 11 grains, CCI 350 primer, Top Brass, OAL of 1.260 the bullet went ~1160 five shot average from my G29 with KKM barrel. Nosler sent reloading data and specified 11 was the max, a WLP primer, Winchester case, and produced a meager 1190 from a 6" Springfield Omega...

    In talking with a small ammo manufacturer he reported the 180 noslers had jacket separation in air when ever driven over the 1400 FPS mark. I think nosler designed the bullet to be driven in the lower 10mm/high 40 S&W velocities. Works good for my G29 though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2010
  12. Whaledriver

    Whaledriver

    170
    0
    Dec 21, 2006
    Kansas
    Good info on the 180s. That seems to be the constant that most 40/10mm are geared to the more popular 40 cal ballistics for obvious reasons. If someone would come out with a 10mm line of boolits for the 10 crowd I think they would have a winner. Something that would be optimal at the 1300 fps range for the 180s or 1200 for the 200 grainer.