Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Forum at

Why should YOU join our forums?

  • Reason #1
  • Reason #2
  • Reason #3

Site Description

45ACP 230FMJ Hardball For Me

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Iceman cHucK, Nov 7, 2009.

  1. Iceman cHucK

    Iceman cHucK

    Jun 23, 2008
    WA state
    I have been shooting the 45 for about 40 years, started in the ARMY with a 1911, since have had one or two of just about every make and model. I've studied the ballistics of all the jhp and +Pjhp and STILL come to the conclusion that 230fmj hardball is about as good as it gets! +P hollowpoints often have feed and recoil issues. I have found many of my 45s don't feed the +Ps well. The gel tests of expanded hollowpoints of all weights often show 10-12 inches of penetration. This MAY be ok if there are no other obstacles to overcome first. Ball will get thru most non hard barriers with enough to penetrate the vitals. Plus its round nose design gives it the best feed profile for a semiauto, and I currently carry a favorite pistol that only feeds hardball. Some argue that it will overpenetrate a human torso. I'd rather chance that with a round that is 100% reliable and will penetrate than have the latest marketing, untried, majic bullet that is expensive to test and hard to find. The 45 230fmj hardball may not have the highest One Shot stopping capability as some others, but if I must use lethal force I will shoot until the threat is stopped regardless of how many rounds it takes. Chuck Taylor has said in his articles that hardball has worked very well for him many times. U.S. Military use of 45hardball for over 70 years and many wars has shown it to be a very effective manstopper. Just my opinion based on a lifetime of experience!
  2. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    Mar 25, 2008
    North East Ohio
    Let me first start out by saying that I'm going to remain unbiased at this point and with hold my opinion on this matter. With that said, would you and could you please provide sources of information that support what you are claiming besides Chuck Taylor? I would greatly appreciate it and thanks! :wavey:

  3. DocKWL


    May 15, 2009
    This is the preferred tactic regardless of the caliber or bullet design and generally works well.
  4. Iceman cHucK

    Iceman cHucK

    Jun 23, 2008
    WA state
    I'm just giving my opinion based on all my combined undocumented history of everything I could find out about the 45ACP. Years ago I had the privilage of personal conversation with Jeff Cooper at Gunsite, who advocated the merits. You can think whatever you like and I suggest you do your own research. I've done mine.
  5. 481


    Feb 20, 2009
    Hell, if you've found something that works for you and you are happy and comfortable with your choice, then I am happy for you.

    Nice to see some folks not losing sleep over such issues for once. Life is too short for such nonsense.

    Shoot 'til they drop!
  6. SIGShooter

    SIGShooter Hucklebucks

    Jan 25, 2005
    I use either or...FMJ or JHP.

    It doesn't matter to me. 9MM, 45 ACP, 5.56MM...It's a bullet...If it's put in the right place it will work its magic.
  7. fredj338


    Dec 22, 2004
    You should rethink that. Back when Cooper was expounding on the virtues of the 45acp & the 1911, JHP were very unlikely to expand in tissue. Todays JHP are much better & many of the 230grJHP will do far better than 12" of penetration. The 230grRGS bonded & 230grXTP are two that will penetrate very deep because they don't expand to a large diameter. Either would be a better chocie than RNFMJ, which pushes tissue aside & causes smooth puncture wounds. Yes RNFMJ works better in the 45acp than any other caliber, but far from the "best" choice IMO. Still, confidence in ones ammo & pistol is 50% of the fight. It's just not what I carry in my 1911.:wavey:
  8. RMTactical

    RMTactical CLM

    Oct 7, 2000
    Behind an AR-15
    I want the most effective bullet that works reliably. If a good quality JHP feeds as reliably as an FMJ, I want that. Hardball will do the trick, but when I am fighting for my life, I will take any advantage I can get, however small.
  9. Jayzod


    Sep 13, 2008
    You have to have 100% faith in your weapon of choice and if FMJ does it for you great.

    The only worry I would have about using the .45 FMJ would be if I lived in an apartment or subdivision and FMJ was used in my "nightstand gun". I would not want to take the chance of shooting my neighbor or neighbors kids in a defensive situation, if their were other choices in ammunition like JHP. Otherwise I would have no worries about carrying .45 FMJ.
  10. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    Shot placement...shot placement...shot placement.

    Happyguy :)
  11. My Glock 21SF feeds every hollow point I've tried in it. I've tried a lot of them.
    When I carried a 1911, which I did for many years, FMJ was used because of the feed issues with most hollow points back then.
    Modern hollow points have the penetration needed and if they fail to expand due to heavy clothing clogging up the cavity then it is essentially a FMJ.
    Of course the important point is to hit the target and also where you hit the target.
    There is nothing wrong with using FMJ, but there is nothing wrong with using a good name brand hollow point either.
    There really doesn't need to be an arguement about which is better as they both will do the job. Each has it's positive and negative attributes.
  12. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    Jul 26, 2002

    Iceman cHucK,

    AAAAH ! A refreshing thread 'for me.' ;)

    I don't leave home without 'em.

    My reason ? The same as yours, and it is in IMO, the best reason a man can have..... "based on a lifetime of experience"

    Good shooting amigo.


    PATRICE . . . . .

    Jun 3, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  14. Snapper2


    Feb 22, 2008
    s.east Texas
    Speaking of hardball. Just got 100 of these remington FNEB 230gr. Loaded them up in 45super brass with 8.3gr Powerpistol at 1.230. Very accurate at 15yds. These are shaped more like a gold dot than a TC but are a little shorter and fed ok through my lonewolf barrel. Remington sales them under their umc leadfree ammunition. I havent done any penetration test yet but did crush one in a vise to look for a jacket split. They had together as good as a 230gr hornady fmj fp.
  15. MinervaDoe


    Jan 26, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    I think shot placement is going to be the deciding factor on this. We all throw around our facts and figures, but I think you can carry any .45 ACP round with confidence that it will stop an opponent.

    But, if you are not confident that the gun will cycle properly, then you will definitely have a confidence problem. Go with the hardball.
  16. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    Jul 26, 2002

    Shot placement is the factor 'no matter the ammo'. :whistling:

    My guns, 1911's and everything else, feed perfectly with all ammo.

    I simply choose the 230FMJ in the 45acp. ;)

    Stay safe

  17. ThreadKiller

    ThreadKiller Socialism Sucks

    May 5, 2004
    I'll go with jhp's. (Speer GD 230's) They feed reliably in my CQB and are accurate. If they don't expand, so what? They will behave like FMJ's in that case.

    What have I lost?
  18. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    Jul 26, 2002

    Penetration from a glogged JHP ! ;)

  19. Mwinter

    Mwinter I'm MilkMan Dan

    Oct 26, 2001
    All the large LE agency significant end-use I've seen with the .45acp in the last 10 years has been with some sort of JHP.

    There are several talented large and small LE agencies that general-issue a .45acp. Each them, from the FBI and TX DPS, down to the 70-officer nearby agency that still issues 1911s, uses/used a modern JHP. Golden Saber, Ranger SXT, Gold Dot, Federal Bonded Tactical and HST.....lots of brands/weights to choose from.

    If it was so hard to get a JHP to feed, then I think you'd see a lot more agencies saddling their guys wth FMJ.

    I also noticed OP had '+p' reiterated several times....a lot of the successful modern .45acp JHPs are standard pressure.
  20. Iceman cHucK

    Iceman cHucK

    Jun 23, 2008
    WA state
    Threadkiller asked "what have I lost?" My problem with jhp is not with plugged rounds acting like hardball, but with expanded rounds not giving enough penetration!
    Good to hear from ya CandyMan, uh I mean CanyonMan:supergrin:
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009