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45 Super?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by flyandscuba, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. How about a Glock 30? Same exact size except potential for bigger bullets and more power and just as accurate. With a LW or KKM barrel and you can shoot .45 super+ Put a comp on it and you can shoot Rowland level loads.
  2. So here's some stills of the .45 Super(+) tests done this week. I used Clear Ballistic Gel (BB calibration of 3.2"). Testing conditions were at 6300' with temperatures in the low to mid 60's and dry. Didn't use denim because I know all these loads expand reliably and I'm really developing these for woods carry/hunting and primarily concerned with bullet toughness and penetration.
    Test gun is Gen 3 Glock 21 With Lone Wolf (fully supported chamber) and a LW compensator and 24# RSA.[​IMG]

    250gr (.452) Hornady XTP @ 1210fps:
    This load penetrated 22.5" in calibrated gel and made one of the longest permanent cavities I've seen in a handgun 1"+ wide by 11" long!

    This is the 1st of two 14" long Blocks. Bullet settled down to caliber size hole for the remaining 8.5" in the next block. Expanded diameter averaged about .68. Retained weight of 240gr.
    This is not a max load and bullet seems like it can handle some more velocity. Will bump it up to 1250-1275 and see how penetration is affected. This is an accurate load and not too bad in recoil. Accuracy for three shots at 17yds:
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
    abram1365 likes this.

  3. WeeWilly


    Nov 12, 2011
    Sorry, I meant Model 29 as in .44RM Smith. It is the most accurate handgun I have ever shot, notwithstanding my old Smith Model 19.

    I only use revolvers for hunting and really have not done much handgun hunting in quite a while.

    My .45 Super loads have all been done in my G21 and 1911's.

    Thanks for the photos. 1200fps for a 250gr slug is really hot stuff. Love the XTP, stout bullet.
  4. RWBlue


    Jan 24, 2004
    There is something about an old S&W revolver. Many people shoot them very well, including myself. Then again my old S&W in my collection I shoot well is a 22LR.
  5. WeeWilly


    Nov 12, 2011

    My old Model 19 was my most accurate handgun I ever owned. I was like Wyatt Erp with that gun. With my Model 29 nowadays, I am not as good, but I am not as good at anything as I was in the day when I used that 19.

    I think the balance of this style gun makes a difference, maybe the lack the moving parts when the bullet is still in the barrel, also for my Model 29, the sight radius has to be a factor, it is pretty long.

    Be that as it may, if headed to a gunfight, I wouldn't willfully pass up an autoloader with a full magazine.
  6. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Good report CT! Everything you posted seems to match what I got with the 250gr XTP. Of course I don't have any ballistic gel, but I figured it would penetrate nice and deep and it looks like it did. It's good to see what it does in gel, that's a heck of permanent cavity it left behind!

    Expansion at 1200 fps in the gel looks just like what I was getting through water, and to top it off, it looks like you're also getting some good accuracy out of it, that's a very nice looking 3 shot group.

    I'd be interested in seeing what one running a little faster would do, you would likely gain expansion but I'm curios whether penetration would increase or decrease.
  7. Thanks SD,

    I'm going to drive it a bit faster, 1250-1275 or so. I'm guessing it will shed another 10gr of wt or so and penetrate another couple inches. The heavier XTP's designed for higher velocities don't seem to expand really radically; they just keep pushing back and shedding their edges.
    I do want to maintain a very accurate load so that hits past 100 yards are feasible so the load velocity I end up with may be dictated by accuracy. I'm going to have this G21 milled to put a Trijicon RMR on it so I can make reliable hits to 200 yards. I've done this with a S&W 629 and would like the lighter weight and greater capacity of the .45 Super.
  8. So here's some more .45 Super test results:

    185gr Barnes XPD loaded in Win brass with Win LP and 800x powder

    Same day as the above test: 6300', 65 deg.

    Velocity out of Comped G21 with LW barrel: 1475 (893 ft. lbs)
    Penetrated 22" in bare calibrated Clear Ballistics Gel


    The initial permanent cavity is wider than the 250gr XTP but is quite a bit shorter and overall penetration is less but still very impressive:
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
  9. WeeWilly


    Nov 12, 2011
    So I did a few more this morning.

    The tests were with Blue Dot, Longshot, VV-N350 and VV-N105.

    I used 22lb recoil springs with both guns, 5" 1911 and G21SF, otherwise they were stock configuration.

    I used new Starline brass, Winchester LP, and a combo of PD 230 FMJ/RN and 230 XTP's.

    The chrony was a little closer this time. The deeper seating depth of the XTP 230 made a noticeable difference in velocity. These slower powders seem to like a little tighter space to work in.

    I was having one of the days with accuracy (on my part), so I will need to take the most promising loads back out again and see what was the load and what was me.

    I have not done the spreadsheet input yet to get the actual averages, ES and SD's, so the numbers are averages done in my head. Not exact, but pretty close.

    The VV-N350 had similar results to last time:

    9.4gr - PD 230gr FMJ - 1.265" - Stock G21 - 1058 fps
    9.4gr - PD 230gr FMJ - 1.265" - 5" 1911 - 1091 fps
    9.6gr - PD 230gr FMJ - 1.265" - Stock G21 - 1062 fps
    9.6gr - PD 230gr FMJ - 1.265" - 5" 1911 - 1108 fps
    9.8gr - PD 230gr FMJ - 1.265" - Stock G21 - 1080 fps
    9.8gr - PD 230gr FMJ - 1.265" - 5" 1911 - 1124 fps

    The brass looked fine from both guns, I may go a little higher next time.


    11.2gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1026 fps
    11.2gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1057 fps
    11.4gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1036 fps
    11.4gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1089 fps
    11.6gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1047 fps
    11.6gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1110 fps
    11.8gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1074 fps
    11.8gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1138fps

    The brass looked fine from both guns, I may go a little higher next time. I did have a couple of mis-feed's with the 1911 in the 11.8 string, I need to test this a little more to figure out what is going on. When I get up above about 1135fps with the 230gr slug, thing started getting weird feed wise in the 1911 using N105.

    I was getting some serious dents in the case from my ejection port using the VV-N105, so much for my fancy ejection port contour, combined with the feed issues, I may fool with a few more spring and see if I can tune the hotter N105 loads to be a little easier on the brass and improve feed reliability.


    9.2gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1070 fps
    9.2gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1119 fps
    9.4gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1101 fps
    9.4gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1138 fps
    9.6gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1109 fps
    9.6gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1167 fps

    The brass looked good and feed was fine in all test and both guns. The SD's are going to calc out low with these loads, accuracy was excellent on an otherwise lousy day for me behind the trigger.

    Blue Dot:

    12.4gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1088 fps
    12.4gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1150 fps
    12.6gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - Stock G21 - 1091 fps
    12.6gr - XTP 230gr - 1.235" - 5" 1911 - 1169 fps

    The brass looked good and feed was fine in all test and both guns. The SD's were really low in the 12.6 test with Blue Dot (something that I usually don't see with this powder). I have not calculated it yet, but the ES was like 9 fps, so the SD's are going to be really small.

    Some generalizations I am coming to with this caliber is more barrel generally makes a big difference. The stock G21 barrel just isn't long enough to get these big slugs going with the slow powders required to get the most out of things. There was a noticeable jump in velocity with the 5" 1911 over the stock Glock barrel, only .4" increase had an outsized impact on performance on most powders. I forgot my KKM 6" barrel for my G21, but I suspect the velocity jumps between sizes will keep going up for a while as length is added.

    Another thing I noticed (thanks to SD for that insight) is the seating depth of the XTP (deeper so they would chamber in my 1911), really helps with velocity, again with these slower powders less free space makes an outsized impact not only on velocity but consistency of velocities. I plan to do some back to back tests with seating depth to see how much and with which powders seating depth is most important.

    When I get the actual averages, SD and ES's I will post them as a revision.

    Some fun.

    Warning: you should always work up your loads in your own gun. Using the above loads in your gun may not be safe. I use normal load workups with all powders, there are NO safe shortcuts!
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  10. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Looks like another solid load there CT. That's a real good velocity too for such a long bullet. I don't have one to compare it too, but the 185gr XTPs are quite short, so I'm impressed that you got 1475 from the considerable longer Barnes bullet.
  11. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Good write up WW, next time remember to bring the 6" KKM along! When I used to shoot .45 Super from a 4.6" KKM G21, I would get some dented up brass when the 230's starting getting around 1100+. That's one of the reasons I went to a comped barrel so that it would help to slow the slide velocity down, which in turn doesn't bang up the brass like it did before.
  12. WeeWilly


    Nov 12, 2011
    Yeah, I think I have found the limits of the stock configuration. Along with bringing the 6" barrel along to see what these big mothers can do with more barrel, I will bring the heaviest spring I have also. I have never been a big fan of comps, so it is looking like I will have to be stopping here pretty quick in my quest for more. I have always avoided that 24lb spring because for whatever reason it seems to really transfer the recoil. I do have to say, on my all steel 1911 even the front and back strap checkering starts to feel unkind when I was getting into the upper reaches. I guess you can't be pushing 700 ft/lbs without a little recoil.

    My goal was finding a good 1100 fps load for the 230's on my G21SF and also one for the 1911's. I think I have a few candidates.

    Time to get on the notification list for some more Starline brass.

    Now I just have to decide how many G20/G29's to sell... ;)
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
  13. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    Whenever you get a chance, pick up some 800x, I think you'll be pleased with the results. From the more "sane" loads of a 230gr @ 1100 fps to the warmer 230gr at over 1300 fps, it's always been very consistent for me in the .45 Super.

    I can understand not liking comps, and one idea that I had considered (and still may) is to take a 6" barrel and have it ported, it sticks out of the barrel anyways and I know there are places that will cut you a few ports in the end of it. Not really needed at the mid level loadings, but could likely help if you ever decide to go any warmer with your loads. With that said however, a 230gr at 1100+ is still potent medicine.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  14. +1!!

    800x is excellent for mid size cases and heavy loads. Very clean, consistent and accurate.
    Doesn't meter for crap but usually with high tests loads one is hand weighing every charge anyway; at least I do :)
  15. WeeWilly


    Nov 12, 2011
    I have a part used bottle of 800x that I had experimented with in my 10mm loads. I will put it into the rotation for my Super tests.

    In my 180gr 10mm tests it seems to do best in overall performance (notwithstanding its metering characteristics which make it a novelty powder from my perspective).

    In my 180gr 10mm tests, I found I could do everything pretty much with Longshot as I could 800x and get better metering. The only difference I found performance wise between the two is 800x did seem to burn much more cleanly and was easier on the cases (less bulge, extractor rash, etc.), which is still a mystery to me why that was the case.

    Anyway, thanks for the heads up guys, I will give it a try with the Supers, some fun.
  16. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    I did try out Longshot and the 255gr Beartooth WFNPB today. I didn't chronograph all of them, but tried 9.2gr followed by 9.5gr of Longshot.

    1x Starline brass
    CCI LP primers
    Glock 21 Gen4 w/KKM 4 port barrel (5")

    255gr Beartooth WFNPB, 9.5gr Longshot @ 1.170": 1,189 fps average.

    I started out just shooting a few for accuracy because I've been getting some pretty good accuracy out of Longshot lately in the .40 and 10mm, and the 9.5gr load above was no exception. They hit exactly POA at about 15yds, 9.2gr was a little high but 9.5gr was dead on.

    The other reason I wanted to try LS was because although 800x is giving me more speed, the accuracy doesn't seem as good, or either I wasn't shooting it as well. Either way I could tell a marked improvement in accuracy over my warm 11.0gr load of 800x.

    I was running low on time, but plan to get back out there and load up 9.8 and 10.0gr next, should get me up closer to the 1250 fps mark. I doubt I'll get time to before deer season starts up, so I'm gonna load up some of the 9.5gr load above and use that this year more than likely, either that or the 250gr XTP, haven't decided yet.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  17. I'd use the 250 XTP. The 255WFN will sail through the deer like butter. No doubt lethal if placed right but you may have it run a bit 1st. That 250XTP ~1250fps is devastating and more than enough penetration. Would be fine on elk much less deer.

    If you get a chance try some of the barnes 185's. I think it is an ideal deer round at ~1400-1500fps. More initial cavitation than the bigger/heavier bullets but nearly as much penetration and no lead fragments in your roast :)
  18. WeeWilly


    Nov 12, 2011
    I too have been getting best accuracy out of Longshot with my .45 Super loads, although I just started testing 800x this weekend.

    The thing I did notice was at equivalent velocities the 800x seems to be easiest on my brass of all powders tested, at least in the ranges my stock setups will tolerate (i.e. roughly 1150 fps max for a 230gr jacketed bullet out of a 5" 1911 barrel, just with heavy recoil springs). I still have some spring changes to experiment with when testing the VV-N105 to try and get into the 1150fps range reliably.

    I am waiting for a selection of Bear Tooth bullets (in 45 as well as 44 and 10mm calibers), can't wait to try them out. I am also going to give some of those 250 XTPs a try.

    Some fun.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  19. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    WW I've noticed too that with similar velocity loads that 800x seems to be a little easier on the brass. To point out, the 250gr XTP loaded with 11.0gr 800x was very accurate, but I'm not getting stellar accuracy out of the 255gr hardcasts with 800x for whatever reason, which isn't to say anything bad of the bullet since it's a quality bullet, but it's not shooting as good as I hoped it would. Maybe it's me, but either way with LS they shot great.

    CT, yeah I'm still up in the air on it, but that 250gr XTP load is about as accurate of a load as I've ever shot out of the Super. That it's also a top load performance wise, it has a lot going for it. I keep telling myself that I'm going to have to try some of the all copper bulelts one day, and I hope to get around to it eventually.
  20. WeeWilly


    Nov 12, 2011
    Hey CT,

    Were you using 800x with those 250 XTP's? I found a box of the 250's at a LGS this weekend, I can't believe my good fortune as I have come up empty trying to find them online.

    Still waiting on my Bear Tooth order, reminds me of when I was buying Penn bullets, no email, no nuthin', just one day they arrived.

    No report this weekend, the range was closed.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013