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.40S&W 180gr. vs. 165gr. in G22/23/27

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by PAGunner, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. dpadams6


    Jan 5, 2010
    It seems now a days, everyone wants penetration, penetration, penetration, with a bullet that completely holds together. But if you look at all the on the street "proven" rounds for the past many years, the best ones are the ones that fragment. AKA: 9mm federal 115 +P+ and the 357 magnum federal 125jhp. Both these rounds worked fantastically for law enforcement, but everyone wants more penetration since the FBI says so. I'll take the real life street proven rounds over what the FBI "says" are better.
  2. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle

    Jul 26, 2002
    If I do carry my 40 S&W, I prefer the WW 180 PDX1 or the 180gr GD.
    I like heavy for caliber no matter what I'm shooting.

    They both get good deep penetration. I am not much for the lighter bullets.

    If I had to choose a 165gr for some reason it would be the WW PDX1 bonded.

    Good luck.


  3. I don't know where you're getting this street proven information from, but it's simply not true.

    A number of federal agencies and the LE departments/agencies in the state I worked in kept the traditional .357mag/158gr weight because feedback on 125gr was, it was NOT as effective as the 158gr. The .357mag got its reputation with the 158gr weight (same sectional density group as 10mm/200gr), not the 125gr JHPs.

    From scientific OIS .357mag street reports as written by Dr. Roberts:

    BTW, jacketed .357mag ammunition didn't hit the streets 'til the late 60s, that's according to Speer.

    To the OP, it would appear that CHP is getting better results with .40/180gr than the .357mag/125gr as referenced above.

    Bob :cowboy:
  4. barstoolguru

    barstoolguru texas proud

    Jan 10, 2011
    dallas, tx
    I don’t see 15 grains making that much of a difference in shots that are being made at 21 to 40 ft but some one will say I am wrong and that’s there choice. I shoot 165g federals because they are cheep.
    Remember this: trauma kills and not bullet weight. Weight is a factor in penetration but 15g is not such a big factor that it will tilt any scales on a pistol

    here is a link the proves my point
  5. SuperSleuth


    Feb 27, 2010
    165gr GDHP in a G23. Some sources say to use lightweight, fast-expanding loads for the shock, other sources say use heavyweight, slow loads for increased penetration. I decided to split the difference. Recoil is snappy, but not so much that I couldn't get good groups firing quickly. I bought a few boxes of GDHP inexpensively, and a case of 165gr Lawman TMJ for balistically-identical practice rounds. They're reliable in the gun. The 165gr GDHP seems to have a good track record in actual shootings, as well as passing the FBI tests. I have no need to try anything else right now.
  6. fastbolt


    Jun 9, 2002
    CA Central Coast
    How many of these "Which bullet weight in .40?" threads are there?? :tongueout:

    I've used 165gr & 180gr loads as issued ammunition and have tried some lighter weights over the years.

    I tend to like the 180gr loads, myself.

    Over the years I've used a couple of issued standard JHP loads by Win & Rem, as well as a premium load by each company (Win RA40TA 165gr & RA40T 180gr T-Series and Rem's 180gr Golden Sabre GS40SWB). Given my druthers, I prefer the premium loads in 180gr bullet weight.

    BTW, a close friend of mine was with the CHP when they carried .357 Magnum & .38 Spl revolvers, as well as when they'd transitioned over to the .40 S&W pistols. He was a weapons officer until his retirement and we spoke a bit about his experiences over the years. As was mentioned by another source in Glolt20-91's posting, my friend similarly told me that they received much better performance and were much better satisfied with the 180gr .40 S&W as a duty caliber (even using "old-style" 180gr Win JHP's - RA40180HP) than they ever were with the .357 Magnum & .38 revolver calibers and loads they'd used over the years.
  7. phoenixg23


    Feb 7, 2013
    Take it easy, see you around the forums buddy.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  8. Coffee Dog

    Coffee Dog

    Feb 12, 2007
    East Coast
    Winchester Ranger "T" Series 165 grains--expansion
    is aprox. .84 and penetration is 11 1/2 inches.:wavey:
  9. phoenixg23


    Feb 7, 2013
    Been running 165gr Gold Dots or 180gr HST in my G23. Recently purchased 165gr HST, need to get out and try them out in the desert.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  10. happie2shoot


    Jan 5, 2008
    I am in the fast and heavy camp, 180 and up for me.
  11. Remington 870

    Remington 870

    Feb 29, 2012
    Speer gold dots in any caliber! I like 165 grain in 10mm short. 124grain in 9mm. 230 grain in 45acp. Why i like these rounds cause they are very accurate,the bullets hold up through most hard barriers. And they are easy to find in any gun/sporting goods store.

    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
  12. Coffee Dog

    Coffee Dog

    Feb 12, 2007
    East Coast
  13. Coffee Dog

    Coffee Dog

    Feb 12, 2007
    East Coast

    Howdy Bob--good to see ya on Glocktalk. Many thanks for this information.:eagle:
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  14. glock2740

    glock2740 Gun lover.

    Jun 19, 2008
    NW Ark.
    This. ^^^^^ :cool:
  15. ABNAK


    Apr 22, 2005
    Trust me, stick with HST. Between online tales and my own testing (pork loins with denim) the Rangers have a propensity to not expand----or do so half-assed----when the HP has to deal with "clothing". I've NEVER had that happen with HST's of any caliber/weight.

    Although I'm not a "heavy-for-caliber" fan the 180gr HST is the way to fly in .40 S&W. The skives in the bullet are cut all the way back to the case mouth (maybe more, I've never pulled a bullet to see) and therefore it's the consistently largest expanding HST .40 load.

    The only exception to the 180gr HST in .40 I *might* make is the 150gr Nosler by's a HOT load and is rated at 1275fps from a 4" barrel. I might also go with a 155gr cup-and-core JHP if someone :whistling: (reading this Mr. Underwood?) would load one to the old Border Patrol specs of 1250fps.

    My personal opinion is that you just can't go wrong with HST in any caliber.
  16. clarkz71


    Aug 24, 2012
    South Florida
    From GATE, Mas Ayoob answers this very question


    I'm sure you get asked this all the time but I really respect your experience and opinion so I'm going to ask anyway.

    I have done a lot of pre-research and have opted to use Speer Gold Dots in my Glock 23 EDC self-defense gun. My question is should I use 165 or 180 grain bullets?



    Personally, I'm partial to the 165 grain full velocity
    (spec'd for 1140 foot-seconds or so, as opposed to the subsonic version).

    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  17. Gunfiter


    Jun 8, 2013
    I just got out of a FBI firearms recert class, and I was told the Bureau is going away from the Winchester 180 due to functioning problems when paired with the Glock 23. They are going back to the Gold Dot 165, moving at 1150 fps. The Winchester was a good round, but F.T.U. just couldn't make it work reliably.
    The thing to remember about the FBI ammo protocols is they were designed to mimic situations that agents were encountering in shootings. They're not a catchall for everyone, you need to design test protocols that reflect what you're likely to see.
  18. cbird77


    Dec 20, 2012
    The Woodlands
    180 HST here, the others woul probably be better at long distance but I carry for PD.
  19. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

    May 31, 2011
  20. cadillacguns

    cadillacguns Millennium Member

    Jan 20, 1999
    Indianapolis, IN USA
    Wow I originaly posted here in Feb 2013,I shoot either 180/165 .40, but prefer 180 gr for practice and or carry. I have shot the Fed HST/Win PDX-1/Speer GDHP in my G-22/23/27 and find the PDX and GDHP most accurate in my hands out of my guns. The HST while a very well designed round, was the least accurate for me.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013