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.40S&W 165gn FMJ load data WTF!

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Gpruitt54, Sep 30, 2012.


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  1. Gpruitt54

    Gpruitt54
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    I have Rainier .40S&W 165gn plated bullets. They load and shoot very well. My .40S&W 165gn FMJ bullets arrived from www.evergladesammo.com. I'm finding it difficult to locate trusted load data for 165gn bullets. It's also hard to locate FMJ load data. My newly purchased Hornady manual does not cover 165gn .40S&W bullets at all. Its as if 165gn bullets do not exist.

    Why is this? 155gn and 180gn load data is all over the place, but not 165gn and not FMJ. Why is this? Are these relitively new variations or what?

    My Lee manual covers 165rn FMJ as well as plated, but the powder loads are (as discovered in other threads) light. I don't know how to take data from a similar bullet and calculate a load for my bullet. I am not ready to try something like that.
     

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  2. fredj338

    fredj338
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    IT's why smart relaoders have multiple data ref. The 180gr wt was what the 40 was designed around. Then the came out w/ a 155gr, Hornady used to first intro the middle wt, but it was a 170gr. So 165gr is now the middle wt std. The Hodgdon site has 165gr data as does Alliant, but it only shows max. In a pinch, it's always safe to use heavy bullet data for lighter bullets & work up. Keep in mind, plated ARE NOT FMJ, & should be loaded between a lead bullet & jacketed bullet. Since there are precious few 165gr lead bullets, most are 170gr+, again, use the heavier 180gr data & work up.
     

    #2 fredj338, Sep 30, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  3. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan
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    The Speer #14 manual has load data for 165 gn TMJ FN and GDHP. It turns out that the bullet you bought actually is a FMJ FN! Pretty close!

    The Sierra manual has load data for 165 gn JHP.

    The Accurate manual I linked to earlier has data for the Sierra 165 gr JHP including a load for #2.

    There's a reason I have nearly a dozen loading manuals including some very old Speer books! You just can't have too much data.

    Richard
     
    #3 F106 Fan, Sep 30, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  4. shotgunred

    shotgunred
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    reloading nut

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    I posted data in another thread earlier this week. All stuff that I worked up myself. Look and you will find it. It does not contain any AA data as I don't like or use any AA pistol powders. Actually I had issues with AA#5 and haven't been willing to give them any of my money since then.

    Do yourself a favor before you buy any more bullets and ask what people recommend. You are making more work for yourself by buying the cheapest weight available. Most guns have a favorite weight and profile bullet.

    When you start reloading it is best to start with 124 gr 9mm and 180gr 40sw.
     
  5. Gpruitt54

    Gpruitt54
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    I am taking note of all these bits of information. I'd heard that 180gn .40S&W FMJ pullets were very inaccurate. Cannot confirm this, I read it some place.
     
  6. RYT 2BER

    RYT 2BER
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    Tagged for info
     
  7. PrecisionRifleman

    PrecisionRifleman
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    I've come across this same topic myself recently when my order of 1000 165gr JHP Montana Gold's arrived. I'm going to give Longshot a go, and see how it does. From what I have noticed so far, the 40 appears to like the case full of a slow powder. I've had really good results with the 155gr XTP and BlueDot, so fingers crossed with the 165gr and Longshot. If you find a powder that puts up good numbers, and is pretty accurate please share. Hopefully I can post my findings with the Longshot and the 165's by the end of the week, and the load will work out well.
     
  8. shotgunred

    shotgunred
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    I am trying to remember what you had for powders.

    here is one of mine.
    Rainier 165 fmj WIN 231 4.8gr OAL 1.25

    here is the book
    http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
    Winchester 231 .400" 1.125" 4.8 946 28,100 PSI 5.3 1001 32,500 PSI


    40 S&W
    Cartridge Load Data Starting Loads
    Maximum Loads
    Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
    165 GR. SIE JHP Longshot .400" 1.125" 7.3 1139 29,600 PSI 7.8 1185 33,400 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP SR 4756 .400" 1.125" 7.2 1075 26,200 PSI 7.9 1168 33,000 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP HS-6 .400" 1.125" 7.3 1013 28,700 PSI 8.0 1098 32,700 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP AutoComp .400" 1.125" 6.5 1037 25,600 PSI 7.1 1124 31,500 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP Universal .400" 1.125" 5.1 976 26,800 PSI 5.6 1061 32,900 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP WSF .400" 1.125" 6.3 1055 28,100 PSI 6.7 1115 32,700 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP 231 .400" 1.125" 4.8 946 28,100 PSI 5.3 1001 32,500 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP HP-38 .400" 1.125" 4.8 946 28,100 PSI 5.3 1001 32,500 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP SR 7625 .400" 1.125" 5.9 1020 27,400 PSI 6.5 1097 32,100 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP PB .400" 1.125" 4.7 932 26,400 PSI 5.2 1007 32,200 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP WST .400" 1.125" 4.5 916 26,400 PSI 5.1 995 33,300 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP Titegroup .400" 1.125" 4.6 961 27,000 PSI 5.1 1047 33,600 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP 700-X .400" 1.125" 5.0 997 28,000 PSI 5.5 1066 32,900 PSI
    165 GR. SIE JHP Clays .400" 1.125" 3.5 851 29,900 PSI 3.9 897 33,300 PSI
     
  9. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan
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    Who was doing the shooting? One of the top 10 NRA Bullseye shooters or just some guy who couldn't hit a bull in the butt at 10 yards?

    Precision Delta has sample packs. Why not buy one or two and see how they work?

    Richard
     
  10. Gpruitt54

    Gpruitt54
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    I have only 3 manuals. Three..., I never thought I would need more than 2. Now I am considering buying a 4th manual. Oh well!

    Before I started reloading, I always bought 165gn FMJ or plated FN .40S&W rounds. When I started buying my reloading gear and consumables for reloading, I naturally bought 165gn FMJ FN bullets (what is a TMJ bullet?). It made since to reload the round I use to buy. Also, I am reloading target loads (only). I buy my defense (JHP) loads (for now). So, I don't need max loads or heavy bullets. 165gn bullets go through paper targets quite well.

    Sure, after I find load data for 165gn bullets, and reload my bullets, I may have to consider 180gn bullets, but I would prefer to stick with 165gn bullets.
     
  11. Gpruitt54

    Gpruitt54
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    I saw this link and was shocked to see that all the 165gn bullets listed there are for JHP. My bullets are FMJ FN. I did now know the load data could be interhcanged between FN and JHP bullets.

    It seems that in the manuals, JHP and FMJ FN bullets list different powder weights, so I thought you could not interchange the charge between them. Can I enterchange them?

    But what do I know. I am still learning how to do this. Thanks for the information.
     
  12. Gpruitt54

    Gpruitt54
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    Yeah, that is a gret idea. I'll do that.
     
  13. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan
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    Not really... It isn't just the bullet weight but also the length (as it relates to OAL and case volume) and also the bearing surface (profile) along the barrel.

    That's why the recommendation is to start at the minimum charge and slowly work up toward, but probably never reaching, max. Just make a few of each charge in increments of 0.1 gr.

    A TMJ has a copper cover over the base of the bullet. These are often used at ranges that don't allow exposed lead. Plated is another choice for that application.

    Richard
     
  14. greenlion

    greenlion
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    Hogwash. Its still the leading bullet wight for reloading as far as I know. Why would everyone keep using it?
     
  15. noylj

    noylj
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    Here is what I have:
    Bullet Weight Powder Weight Velocity Note P.F. COL
    Sie JHP 165 231/HP38 4.8 946 Start 156 1.125
    JHP 165 231/HP38 4.8 0 1.130
    Rainier CuP-FNHP 165 231/HP38 4.8 0 1.145
    TMJ 165 231/HP38 4.8 0 1.145
    Spr TMJ 165 231/HP38 5.2 937 Start 155
    Sie JHP 165 231/HP38 5.3 1001 Max 165 1.125
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 231/HP38 5.8 955 Start 158
    Rainier P-SWC 165 231/HP38 5.8 958 Start 158
    Spr TMJ 165 231/HP38 5.8 1050 Max 173
    GD-HP 165 231/HP38 6.2 1095 181
    Rainier P-SWC 165 231/HP38 6.3 1030 Max 170
    Spr GD TMJ/GDHP 165 231/HP38 6.3 1031 Max 170
    TC-FMJ 165 3N37 7.3 1125 Start 186 1.126
    TC-FMJ 165 3N37 7.5 1166 Max 192 1.126
    TC-FMJ 165 3N38 9.6 1211 Start 200 1.126
    TC-FMJ 165 3N38 9.8 1252 Max 207 1.126
    Sie JHP 165 700X 5.0 997 Start 165 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 700X 5.5 1066 Max 176 1.125
    Spr TMJ 165 800X 7.2 891 Start 147
    Spr TMJ 165 800X 8.0 1004 Max 166
    Sie JHP 165 AA2 5.6 916 Start 151 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 AA2 6.2 1041 Max 172 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 AA5 6.5 911 Start 150 1.125
    Spr TMJ 165 AA5 6.9 934 Start 154
    Speer-TMJ 165 AA5 7.0 Start 0
    Sie JHP 165 AA5 7.2 1035 Max 171 1.125
    RainierCuP-FNHP 165 AA5 7.3 0
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 AA5 7.6 916 Start 151
    Spr TMJ 165 AA5 7.6 1025 Max 169
    Spr GD TMJ/GDHP 165 AA5 8.5 1067 Max 176
    Rem.GoldenSabre 165 AA5 8.5 HOT 0 1.120
    Speer-TMJ 165 AA5 9.0 1160 Max 191
    RainierCuP-FNHP 165 AA7 7.3 0
    Sie JHP 165 AA7 8.4 923 Start 152 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 AA7 9.3 1049 Max 173 1.125
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 AA7 9.6 951 Start 157
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 AA7 10.5 1041 Max 172
    Sie JHP 165 Auto Comp 6.5 1037 Start 171 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 Auto Comp 7.1 1124 Max 185 1.125
    Sie 165 AutoComp 6.5 1037 Start 171
    Sie JHP 165 AutoComp 7.1 1124 Max 185
    Spr TMJ 165 Blue Dot 8.3 922 Start 152
    Spr TMJ 165 Blue Dot 9.2 1018 Max 168
    Spr TMJ 165 Bullseye 4.8 733 Start 121
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 Bullseye 5.3 949 Start 157
    Rainier P-SWC 165 Bullseye 5.3 950 Start 157
    Spr TMJ 165 Bullseye 5.4 825 Max 136
    Rainier P-SWC 165 Bullseye 5.8 1020 Max 168
    Speer GDHP 165 Bullseye 5.8 1022 Max 169 1.120
    Zero JHP 165 Clays 3.2 770 127 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 Clays 3.5 851 Start 140 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 Clays 3.9 897 Max 148 1.125
    FederalHydra-Shoksubsonic 165 Factory 970 160
    GoldDotFactory 165 Factory 1012 167
    J-Factory 165 Factory 1026 169
    CorbonJHP 165 Factory 1109 183
    J-Factory 165 Factory 1164 192
    Rem.GoldenSabre 165 Factory 1179 195
    Speer GD-HP 165 HS6 7.0 Start
    Sie JHP 165 HS6 7.3 1013 Start 167 1.125
    Spr TMJ 165 HS6 7.6 833 Start 137
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 HS6 8.0 1012 Start 167
    Spr GD TMJ/GDHP 165 HS6 8.0 1012 167
    Sie JHP 165 HS6 8.0 1098 Max 181 1.125
    Speer GD-HP 165 HS6 8.3 1110 Max
    Spr TMJ 165 HS6 8.5 979 Max 162
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 HS6 8.5 1060 Max 175
    Speer GD-HP 165 HS7 7.3 Start
    Speer GD-HP 165 HS7 8.5 1190 Max
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 HS7 9.0 1008 Start 166
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 HS7 9.8 1085 Max 179
    Sie JHP 165 Longshot 7.3 1139 Start 188 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 Longshot 7.8 1185 Max 196 1.125
    Rem.GoldenSabre 165 Longshot 8.0 1091 180
    Rem.GoldenSabre 165 Longshot 8.3 1100 182
    Rem.GoldenSabre 165 Longshot 8.5 1149 190
    Zero JHP 165 N320 4.0 763 126 1.130
    Zero JHP 165 N320 4.2 854 141 1.130
    Berry's 165 N320 4.6 916 151 1.135
    TC-FMJ 165 N320 4.9 994 Start 164 1.126
    Zero JHP 165 N320 5.0 984 162 1.125
    Spr TMJ 165 N340 5.5 873 Start 144
    Spr TMJ 165 N340 6.1 997 Max 165
    TC-FMJ 165 N340 6.6 1137 Max 188 1.126
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 N350 6.7 989 Start 163
    Spr GD TMJ/GDHP 165 N350 7.5 1106 Max 182
    Sie JHP 165 PB 4.7 932 Start 154 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 PB 5.2 1007 Max 166 1.125
    RainierCuP-FNHP 165 Power Pistol 6.0 960 158 1.125
    Spr TMJ 165 Power Pistol 6.3 855 Start 141
    Penn TCBB 165 Power Pistol 6.5 Accurate 0
    RainierCuP-FNHP 165 Power Pistol 6.8 1021 168 1.125
    Spr TMJ 165 Power Pistol 7.0 953 Max 157
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 Power Pistol 7.0 978 Start 161
    FMJ 165 Power Pistol 7.2 1090 180 1.124
    JHP 165 Power Pistol 7.5 1130 186 1.124
    SpeerGDHP 165 Power Pistol 7.8 1081 Max 178 1.120
    RNFP FMJ/Plated 165 Promo 4.7 0 1.125
    SieJHP 165 Silhouette 6.2 960 Start 1.130
    SieJHP 165 Silhouette 6.9 1067 Max 1.130
    J-all 168 Solo 1000 4.2 888 Start 149
    J-all 168 Solo 1000 4.6 1000 Max 168
    MG JHP 165 Solo 1000 4.9 1000 165 1.145
    Sie JHP 165 SR4756 7.2 1075 Start 177 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 SR4756 7.9 1168 Max 193 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 SR7625 5.9 1020 Start 168 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 SR7625 6.5 1097 Max 181 1.125
    PD FMJ 165 TiteGroup 4.3 876 Minor 145 1.135
    Rainier CuP-FNHP 165 TiteGroup 4.6 888 147 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 TiteGroup 4.6 961 Start 159 1.125
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 TiteGroup 5.0 957 Start 158
    Sie JHP 165 TiteGroup 5.1 1047 Max 173 1.125
    Rainier CuP-FNHP 165 TiteGroup 5.4 1018 168 1.125
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 TiteGroup 5.4 1035 Max 171
    Sie JHP 165 True Blue 6.9 1014 Start 167 1.135
    Sie JHP 165 True Blue 7.7 1127 Max 186 1.135
    Rainier CuP-FNHP 165 True Blue 7.8 1070 177 1.125
    Spr TMJ 165 Unique 5.4 952 Start 157
    Spr TMJ 165 Unique 6.0 1034 Max 171
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 Unique 6.2 882 Start 146
    Sierra-JHP 165 Unique 6.5 Start 0
    Spr GDHP 165 Unique 7.2 1064 Max 176 1.120
    Sie JHP 165 Universal 5.1 976 Start 161 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 Universal 5.6 1061 Max 175 1.125
    MG FMJ 165 Universal 5.7 976 161 1.135
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 Universal 5.7 999 Start 165
    Spr GD TMJ/GDHP 165 Universal 6.2 1074 Max 177
    Spr TMJ-FN/GDHP 165 WSF 6.2 1007 Start 166
    Sie JHP 165 WSF 6.3 1055 Start 174 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 WSF 6.7 1115 Max 184 1.125
    Spr GD TMJ/GDHP 165 WSF 6.8 1082 Max 179
    TMJ 165 WSL 5.9 1025 169 1.128
    Sie JHP 165 WST 4.5 916 Start 151 1.125
    Sie JHP 165 WST 5.1 995 Max 164 1.125
    Rainier CuP-HP 160 WST 5.2 1017 163 1.150
    Sie JHP 165 Zip 5.1 925 Start 153 1.124
    Sie JHP 165 Zip 5.7 1028 Max 170 1.124
     
  16. SARDG

    SARDG
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    It's a Total Metal Jacket, like Montana Gold's CMJ (Complete Metal Jacket) and are completely encapsulated in a jacket - though MG's looks more like a plating at the bottom. They allegedly shoot cleaner and with less smoke and lead particulates flying about as no lead is exposed through ignition. Of course, the primers have lead also I think, so...

    AFAIK TMJs and CMJs can have the same profile as non-TMJ/CMJ so should be interchangable with FMJ for a given bullet weight (and similar profile) - but some wise person can correct that if that's not precisely true.

    Plated is a different animal.
     
  17. SARDG

    SARDG
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    Thanks Richard, it takes me 20 minutes to turn a thread post around sometimes... :cool:
     
  18. noylj

    noylj
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    TMJs are PLATED.
    The CMJ bullets have a brass disk placed for the base and the jacket crimps around it.
     
  19. SARDG

    SARDG
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    I don't think TMJs are plated as they are advertised as Total Metal JACKETS.
     
  20. Gpruitt54

    Gpruitt54
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    These are your collected load data? The manuals say not to use loads that are not published. Where do these load data come from?
     
    #20 Gpruitt54, Oct 1, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2012