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40S&W 155gr XTP - Blue Dot or Long Shot?

20K views 25 replies 12 participants last post by  PrecisionRifleman 
#1 · (Edited)
Picked up some 155gr XTP's for my 40S&W and 10mm today. I intended to buy the 180gr and use Blue Dot (already have on hand for my 10mm), but Cabela was out of stock. So since I've wanted to try the 155gr any way I made the buy.

I have 2 powders on hand that I can use to load this bullet, Blue Dot & LongShot. Referencing the Hornady manual I noticed that the LongShot will really smoke this bullet (max load 1300fps), and the Blue Dot runs 1200fps @ max load.

That being said I've not had impressive results with lighter bullets and LongShot in the past in 45 Auto (accuracy wise). So I have a gut feeling that the Blue Dot will give better accuracy at the cost of losing some velocity. If that is true I'll use the Blue Dot. Any feedback is appreciated.

PR
 
#3 ·
No one can tell you what will work in your gun. You'll have to try loads with both and pick the best one.
Certain powders are better than others when it comes to bullet weight. What works well for another is a good starting point for load development when it comes to powder and the best burn rate for a given projectile. What does make a difference in individual firearms is powder charge weight, and bullet seating depth.
 
#4 ·
Longshot is known to work well with higher pressure cartridges like the .40 and .357sig. I would work up some different loads and see how the accuracy is.
 
#5 ·
Certain powders are better than others when it comes to bullet weight. What works well for another is a good starting point for load development when it comes to powder and the best burn rate for a given projectile. What does make a difference in individual firearms is powder charge weight, and bullet seating depth.
So buy a pound of each, start at the starting charge and work up carefully. Am I missing something here?:dunno:
 
#7 ·
First off, I don't load 40 S&W and I have never used either Blue Dot or Longshot.

Both are slower than the beloved Unique and Longshot is slower than Blue Dot. So, for those who really like slow powders, these ought to be standout powders.

The thing I like about the idea of Longshot is the wide variation in charge weights and the range of velocities. The Hodgdon site has the loading data for Longshot and the 155 gr XTP bullet.

I would start with the Longshot (I have heard it is usually called Loudshot) and make up a few at various charge weights. I don't think I would go all the way to the high end; perhaps I would stay 0.2 or 0.3 gr away. There is so much ground to cover, my increment might be 0.2 gr.

I wonder how much flame is going to be following the bullet. If possible, I would try to shoot some at night.

But if I already had the powder, I would certainly like to give it a try. Even the lightest published load with Longshot makes 'major' - pretty close to 175,000 power factor.

I have been considering loading for 40 S&W and I have been looking at the Longshot data for a while now. After you try it, please post your results.

Richard
 
#8 ·
PR, if these cartridges may be carried for Personal Defense, both powders are not good as they have extremely high (BD) or high (LS) muzzleflash. I've used Universal with XTP155s in .40s with great results, and it's a very low-flash powder.

http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/
 
#9 ·
Well it's been a good while since I started this thread, but I figured I'd post an update. Today I ran the 155xtp behind 9.7 grains of Blue Dot (book stated 1150fps), and this is the most accurate load I have fired out of my Glock 23 (gen4) period. It was so accurate that I think that I just may make this my carry load. The recoil was quick, but light and controllable. I'm extremely impressed with the Blue Dot an this bullet, and hopefully accuracy stays the same or improves when I step the charge up a little for a little more oomph for carry.

I've always been a fan of the 165gr & 180gr in the 40S&W, but the light recoil of the 155gr XTP mixed with the excellent accuracy have got me sold on this bullet. What's not to like? Excellent accuracy, high velocity, and deep penetration.
 
#10 ·
Well it's been a good while since I started this thread, but I figured I'd post an update. Today I ran the 155xtp behind 9.7 grains of Blue Dot (book stated 1150fps), and this is the most accurate load I have fired out of my Glock 23 (gen4) period. It was so accurate that I think that I just may make this my carry load. The recoil was quick, but light and controllable. I'm extremely impressed with the Blue Dot an this bullet, and hopefully accuracy stays the same or improves when I step the charge up a little for a little more oomph for carry.

I've always been a fan of the 165gr & 180gr in the 40S&W, but the light recoil of the 155gr XTP mixed with the excellent accuracy have got me sold on this bullet. What's not to like? Excellent accuracy, high velocity, and deep penetration.
Thanks for the update on this. I am a big fan of Blue Dot in 10mm, but I have not used it in 40. I pretty much only load target-strength stuff for 40.

For SD applications, if muzzle flash is a concern for you, BD has quite a bit of candle powder (to offer an understatement). I have a night time outdoor IDPA shoot later this month. I am going to select a stage and have a go with BD just for fun.
 
#11 ·
I've not messed with much Blue Dot in the .40, I used it some in the 10mm and didn't really care for it. I'm a little more familiar with Longshot, it's good powder although it doesn't seem to meet it's velocity claims.

10gr Longshot w/155gr Rem JHP averaged 1220 from a 3" Kahr CM40. My guess is that you'll be over 1250 from the G23 Gen4, as I've not tried those out of my Gen4 G23.

If you can, get your hands on some Power Pistol too. Works very well in both .40 and 10mm and seems more consistent than Longshot as well, plus it lives up to it's velocity claims and then some at times. From the 3" Kahr, 9grs with the same Rem 155gr JHP averaged 1200 fps, which would still likely be close to or better than 1250 from the G23.
 
#13 ·
If you're building PD rounds, neither is a good choice, as both produce lots of muzzleflash.

See the results of my research here... http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/
 
#14 ·
I've heard a lot of people say this about BlueDot, and my personalty experience has been different. I've fired 180gr XTPs in a G20sf from a LWD 6.02" barrel in very low light (almost completely dark) and I got very very little muzzle flash. I was pushing the load @1300fps in that barrel so maybe the powder burned more completely than in shorter barrels. I will have to test my g23 in low light to see if the cartridges and shorter barrel make a difference. I do recall reading a post that the older blue dot had a lot of flash and that the newer bottles don't. I can't confirm that, but in my experience it is a loud powder, but I like it.

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#15 · (Edited)
I don't load the 155gr but do like LOngshot for my 40, 357sig & 10mm full power stuff. BD, just too much blast & flash.
 
#19 ·
Thanks for the info. I've heard good things about Power Pistol from many people. Ill have to buy a lb and give it a go.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
PP offers almost as much blast as BD. I get good accuracy, but it is loud compared to other powders. less flash than BD though.
 
#20 ·
T
For SD applications, if muzzle flash is a concern for you, BD has quite a bit of candle powder (to offer an understatement). I have a night time outdoor IDPA shoot later this month. I am going to select a stage and have a go with BD just for fun.
If you are getting a big ball of flame out of the barrel i would recommend trying a different (faster) powder. Because you are not burning all your powder before the bullet leaves the barrel. Once the bullet leaves the barrel it won't gain any speed and the left over powder is just wasted.
 
#21 ·
If you are getting a big ball of flame out of the barrel i would recommend trying a different (faster) powder. Because you are not burning all your powder before the bullet leaves the barrel. Once the bullet leaves the barrel it won't gain any speed and the left over powder is just wasted.
I understand fully what you are saying, and I do use faster burning powders like Accurate no. 5. A faster powder is typically going to have higher pressures at similar velocities, and they just can't keep up with BD or other slower burning powders like A9. I have tested several dozen distinct workups with 6 different powders under numerous bullet combos in 10mm. BD groups like an absolute champ in my G20, and it is a very good performer when I feel like getting some higher velocities.

So a bit of muzzle flash that is imperceptible in the day is just more of a side note than a problem.
 
#22 ·
I can't confirm that, but in my experience it is a loud powder, but I like it.
That is my experience too. I used it for IDPA for a few years (I am not a "gamer." I run my G20 for fun.), and the SOs hated it during the stages that are simulated hallways where the sound could reverberate a bunch. Tee hee hee!
 
#24 · (Edited)
G35 - 20# spring and non-captured guide rod. TLR3 light.

Federal brass
CCI 500 primer
COL 1.125"

155gr XTP w/ 8.8gr of Longshot = ~1325fps, w/9.6gr of Longshot = ~1400fps (10.0gr is max)

180gr XTP w/7.5gr of Longshot =~1175fps, w/8.0gr = ~1220fps (8.0gr is max)

Longshot + 5.3" barrel = amazing velocity without exceeding SAAMI pressure specs.

No pressure signs but approach top loads with caution. Neither bullet can handle these speeds (core/jacket separation) when firing into water behind 4-layers of denim.

No malfunctions and very accurate.

SDGLOCK23 was correct. With the correct powders, the .40 can crank it out. After reading his postings over the years, I finally got some equipment to load .40, including, longshot powder. It performs just like he said. wow. I'm afraid to try 800x.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Those are some very good numbers DRT! I'm glad to see you post this, I loaded up some loads to run but the weather around here hasn't cooperated enough for me to get to run them. I will be using my G35 also, and have a 6' KKM barrel on it's way.

Included are some Longshot loads, mainly 165gr, as I'm feeling there may be some room to play with there. Hodgdon's 165gr Longshot data seems like an oddity, and the 165gr Sierra is kind of long compared to the 165gr Gold Dot. Anyways it should be interesting, plus I have some nice 3N38 loads waiting. I may load some 155gr XTP's over Longshot as well, I've got a newer batch of Longshot to play with, so it may be better than my last batch.

I mainly messed with Power Pistol last go around, but the book load of 7.2gr for 180gr did ~1150 from the G35. Not bad, but your Longshot load that did ~1220 fps has got me wanting to try out Longhsot again. 9gr of 3N38 got me ~1200 from the G35 with a 180gr with an extreme spread in the single digits.

Very solid performance, and with the 6" barrel my past experience is that 180gr can get close to 1300 fps, although it's not really necessary since ~1200 fps is plenty potent and as you said, takes full advantage of pretty much every 180gr JHP bullet known. With that kind of performance I decided I didn't need my 10mm anymore.
 
#26 ·
G35 - 20# spring and non-captured guide rod. TLR3 light.

Federal brass
CCI 500 primer
COL 1.125"

155gr XTP w/ 8.8gr of Longshot = ~1325fps, w/9.6gr of Longshot = ~1400fps (10.0gr is max)

180gr XTP w/7.5gr of Longshot =~1175fps, w/8.0gr = ~1220fps (8.0gr is max)

Longshot + 5.3" barrel = amazing velocity without exceeding SAAMI pressure specs.

No pressure signs but approach top loads with caution. Neither bullet can handle these speeds (core/jacket separation) when firing into water behind 4-layers of denim.

No malfunctions and very accurate.

SDGLOCK23 was correct. With the correct powders, the .40 can crank it out. After reading his postings over the years, I finally got some equipment to load .40, including, longshot powder. It performs just like he said. wow. I'm afraid to try 800x.
Longshot does put up some good numbers. I'm going to load some 165gr JHP Montana Golds with Longshot today and see how they run. Thanks for the report with your G35. I've been seriously kicking around the idea of getting one myself.
 
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