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.40 S&W and Federal Champion Brass

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by F106 Fan, Dec 15, 2011.

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  1. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    Oct 19, 2011
    Reading through various Internet postings, I am getting the idea that reloaders aren't happy with Federal Champion brass for .40 S&W.

    I am wondering if that dissatisfaction is limited to Glocks and their relatively unsupported chamber.

    I was thinking about loading for a Sig P229 and I have a few thousand rounds of the brass just sitting here. Buying new Starline brass isn't a big deal but tossing thousands of empties seems sacreligious.

    Richard
     
  2. D. Manley

    D. Manley

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    Keep in mind, you have to take everything you read on the "inter-web" with at least, a grain of salt. The problem brass you've read about is largely (but, not completely) long gone. These cases were headstamped, "FC" where the current brass is marked, "Federal". I've had no problems whatsoever with the Federal marked brass and as far as I can tell, its the same as other ATK branded brass...Blazer, CCI, Speer.
     


  3. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    Good to know. Yes, the stuff I read mentioned FC but I took that to mean Federal Champion as an abbreviation.

    Mine is stamped Federal and it comes from Wally World. Still, it's brass and it looks pretty good as it came from a Sig.

    Richard
     
  4. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

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    I use the Brass stamped FEDERAL....but NOT the one stamped with just FC
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  5. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

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    I have seen some pictures of Glock vs Sig vs Beretta barrels. Glock was NOT the worst.

    This entire thing with the Glock and bulged brass is blown WAY, WAY, WAY out of proportion to reality. Problem was Federal made some thinner brass way back when the .40 S&W came out. Glock was a relatively new gun and it was popular to bash on it because of it's huge popularity and unique design. Combine these two events and you have a piling on the weird new guy event that still has a following today because things never fully die in the internet world.
     
  6. SPIN2010

    SPIN2010 Searching ...

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    On the move ... again!
    I reload quite a bit of once fired .40 S&W brass and I can tell you my resized case problems center around Winchester and (S&B) about 90% of the time. I find their bases do not respond well to resizing in my Dillon die (these were shot out of a P229 and reloaded). Federal has been fair up to this point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  7. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    Have you tried the Lee resizing die? It has a smaller radius at the mouth and resizes a little further down. I am using that die in 9mm just for giggles (I pick up a lot of range brass) and it functions perfectly in my 550B.

    Richard
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338

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    I am not a fan of ant Federal brass, at least in high pressure rounds. It just doesn't hold up to repeated loadings. I have seen more case failures & early retirement (enlarged primer pockets) w/ Federal in 9mm, 3578sig, 40 & rifle rounds. Even in the low pressure 45acp, Federal would be my last choice for brand name brass.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  9. Steve Koski

    Steve Koski Got Insurance? Millennium Member

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    Montanuh
    I load Federal .40 brass like any other .40 brass. Never had a problem with it.

    I have no idea about the Federal Champion brass. Is it heastamped differently? Or does it just stay FEDERAL like the other stuff?
     
  10. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    It's just stamped FEDERAL. It all came from Federal Champion ammo sold at Wally World. I don't know what other ammo Federal might load and brand also having a FEDERAL headstamp.

    Richard
     
  11. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

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    there are also ones marked Federal NT...like Winchester has ones marked WIN NT
     
  12. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    I guess I go against the flow of that article. I nominally look at brass when I pick it up. Other than that, it's into the tumbler, media separator and case feeder. I certainly don't separate by manufacturer or headstamp. I just load it.

    With this SPP crap I am having to look at cases I bring in from outside sources. That stuff will plug up my 1050 at the primer pocket swaging station.

    All of my ammo just makes PF and none of it will ever be used for anything other than poking holes in cardboard targets. Sure, I want a certain amount of accuracy but that A zone is pretty large. If the stuff groups to 3" at 25 yards, that is good enough. I wonder if I can group 3" at 25 yards; offhand and in a hurry?

    One thing about making lighter loads for .45 ACP is that you can expect the brass to last forever (or at least a dozen reloadings). There won't be any cracked cases any time soon. Working from 5000 rounds of brass means that any given case is only loaded every once in a while. I'll soon be working from 10,000 rounds of brass so maybe I only load a couple of times per year.

    I'll leave the OCD stuff for my rifle reloading. And there I care...

    Richard
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  13. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

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    I separate mine...did it last night on a 1000 .40 while watchin TV...took about a half hour or so.
     
  14. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    But having done it, what difference does it make? You're going to load it all, right? You aren't going to change loads between manufacturers are you?

    I can understand paying a lot of attention for precision rifle, I do that. For action pistol, not so much. As long as I can get the head shot at 20 yards, I am happy with the load. If I miss, I can ALWAYS blame it on the shooter.

    It is true that I am separating that 3000 rounds of once-fired that I just bought but I expected that. There's a little bit of everything in there. But once I am done, I don't expect to have to look at it again.

    Richard
     
  15. rpgman

    rpgman SCGLOCK

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    I find differences in case size messing with my set OAL. It was varying too much, now, since I separate the brass coming out of the tumbler, it varies + or - .005

    it was varying greater when I wasn't separating. Granted, that was on my Lyman Turret II Press, and I haven't re-checked since I got the xl650 2 weeks ago. It's just a habit now. I should re-check using the xl650.

    Greg
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  16. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    Why would case length have any effect on OAL? OAL is measured from the base to the nose. The case could be 0.20" short or 0.020" long and it wouldn't have any effect on OAL.

    A more likely issue is how well the bullet fits the seating die (or insert) and the consistency of the bullet profile. Maybe a different seating die would provide a more consistent OAL.

    I wonder if 'Match' bullets have a more consistent profile?

    What I think has more effect is the difficulty of resizing and decapping the case at station 1 and how that bends the press or platform (I'm thinking about the 550, I don't know anything about the Lyman).

    Loading on a progressive press is an 'about' situation. If +- 0.005" bothers you, you might still be disappointed with even the new press. After all, it has the same basic design as the 550B. I have been happy with +- 0.010".

    Richard
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  17. D. Manley

    D. Manley

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    Older versions of Federal brass were stamped "FC" for "Federal Cartridge".

    "N/T" stamped brass represents "Non-Toxic". The brass is just fine to use but be aware that some (if not all) the .45 NT brass cases are sized for Small Pistol primers and can be a hassle causing most folks just to exclude them or at least, segregate them so as not to mix with normal LPP .45's.

    As to present vintage Federal brass. It's my belief that the only difference in Federal, CCI, Blazer and Speer brass is the headstamp. I do not claim to have any "insider information" about this but they appear the same to me and are all owned by the same parent company. It does not seem logical to me that ATK would have multiple suppliers of a component used by their manufacturing processes and even if it did, the specifications would be the same across the board.
     
  18. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Maybe. With globalization, manuf may be subbing out their cheaper ammo line to a foreign manuf for cases.:dunno: My past exp has me not wanting to load Federal brass, even their match brass, in anything w/ higher pressures than say 25K psi. I have had 308GMM & 06 GMM stretch primer pockets in as few as 3 firings w/ my normal loads put up in other brands of brass. I have seen std pressure 9mm loads rupture a case head in once fired, yep Federal brass. So I only sort my brass in handguns for max loads. I use my Federal brass for lost brass matches.:supergrin:
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  19. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

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    deleted - started new thread
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011