357SIG proving to be an unbelievable manstopper???

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by glock20c10mm, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. The video of the deer hit with an arrow is certainly not very clear. But from what I see, the buck appears to be reacting to the hit in the same way I've seen bucks and does react when shot with a slow heavy bullet in the heart/lung area. I have watched them fall down and try but fail to rise up. Perhaps in this case the arrow pierced the heart or cut one or more arteries which would immediately lead to a dramatic loss of blood pressure. Perhaps the arrow pierced one or both lungs. Either or both together would account for the confused reaction of the buck as well as its inability to stand up. JMHO. Sincerely. Brucev.

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  2. NMGlocker

    NMGlocker BOOM headshot

    Just thing how AWESOMELY DEVASTATING "Extreme --Shock" .357sig ammo must be

    The reason I'm not debatng you in a serious manner?
    Because the entire premise of your argument is so vapid and devoid of substance as to be ridiculous.
    Same reason I don't argue with 9/11 "Truthers", Scientologists or Obama voters.
    Mocking pseudo-intellectualism was amusing for a few posts but now that the weather has cleared I'll be at the range, enjoy your little "debate".

  3. My point exactly. If a bow can cause what I view as the same result you are describing a "TBI" to be, in this context (The deer was scared as it obviously tried to flee, yet when he got set down, he didn't even try to run again. He didn't try to crouch down or hide or something. He just sat there not knowing what to do. Confused is the only way to describe it as the deer ceased all efforts to flee, yet we know it didn't wish to remain in the area either. Kindof like a violent attacker stopping their attack.), then there are more factors at work here, and BPW's effectiveness cannot be measured at this present time. Ergo, it's all supposition.
    #443 N/Apower, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  4. My "experiement" (poll) obviously has many holes. I would not try to pass it off as anything but "something fun" that was compiled. However, you cannot argue that there is a visible trend. That's all I was going for--is there a trend, or not? There was, according to my poll, which I agree with you is VERY subjective. Still, the error is one of accuracy and not consistancy. So while the frequency of results is subjective, the relative frequency is less so (but I agree, still subjective).
  5. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

    We will, don't shoot your eye out, kid.
  6. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

    Then our difference will be in the eye of the beholder because I don't view incapacitation to look the same as that (video). I view it to look more like "dazed" and confused, not confused and "assessing". More like your analogy of your fights, well aimed punches have more of a desired effect. The "blank" stare is where it's at, a loss of situational understanding. That deer was just confused.

    I really just think that video is a bad example for anyone's case.
  7. Video quality is poor.

    The deer "changed it's channel". That's what I looked at.
  8. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

    The problem I see with your poll is the subjective viewpoints of the "boholder", again. I've listened to too many redneck stories recounting outlandish events to believe just anyones oppinions in a poll. I've known too many people that have killed in combat that don't really know what they saw... to be able to except random deers hunters oppinions one click away on a poll.
  9. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

    It did, but not the right way in my oppinion, if you get what I mean?
  10. I agree that the opinions are subject to question, but they are equally so, yet the results are not equal. Not only are they not equal,but they trend.
  11. Correct, I misinterpeted what you were showing for percentages. But still, as you admitted to an extent, the data leaves much to be desired. Nice shot in the dark though. Maybe you can refine your polling to get more telling results.
  12. The biggest knock against the video is that you simply can't see the path the arrow took through the deer. Without knowing that everything is nothing but a wild assed guess from any and all aspects. If it wasn't for the current 56K dial up I have for internet access I search the heck out of videos to try to find something better. I have seen hundreds of deer shot on video with broadheads and not a single one collapsed. They all ran off to some extent. And +90% of those shots were what most would consider right on the money so to speak. Maybe someone can find a better video of something similar where shot placement/path can be clearly seen?
  13. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

    That's my thing, that's absolutely the first time I have EVER seen that. They all haul ass.:dunno:

  14. In your WW Ranger T comparison I think you mean the 9mm 127 gr +p+ (RA9TA Is a +p+). Which by the way leaves my G19 at just over 1200 fps. Then you are comparing it to the most anemic 357 sig. Within its pressure envelope the 357 sig can easily top 1425 fps, which is what I carry. So you are 175 fps above the 9mm operating above its design limit into +p+ designation. +p+ means it really is not defined as to cartridge pressure level. Looking at the higher velocity 124gr 9mm. Standard pressure is 1150fps, +p is 1200 fps and +p+ is 1250 fps (127gr). I really doubt those velocities can be reached out of a 4" barrel, but we will take it.

    There is only 100 fps increase from 9mm to 9mm +p+. Does that make a big difference. Most would say yes. Going from the highest 9mm, 1250fps to a properly pressured 357 sig takes you 175 fps higher. Those of us who have shot 357 sigs for over 10 years do not like the trend to slow the bullet down. I am sure the 357 Ranger T is a good round, better than a 9mm. However, I generally carry a Corbon 125 JHP 357 sig which leaves my G32 at 1430fps. Although I do not have a ammo lab I have shot the WW127gr 9mm +p+ and the Cobon 125 gr 357sig through four layers of denim and gallon water jugs. There is a noticible and significant difference in energy transfer. The penetration is a little greater for the Ranger T, but the Corbon expands more.

    This is not to criticize the Ranger T 127 +p+. My wife carries it in her G19. She just feels more comfortable with the milder round.
    #454 PghJim, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  15. NMGlocker

    NMGlocker BOOM headshot

    It's a handgun round, not Thors hammer.
    #455 NMGlocker, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  16. NMGlocker

    NMGlocker BOOM headshot

    I did not know that pressure ratings were in "feet per second", I always though it was "pounds per square inch".

    SAAMI pressure ratings for the 9mm are 35000 PSI for standard and 38500 for +P, there is no spec for +P+.

    You don't own an ammo lab?
    From your post, I could have sworn you were some kind of ballistics/physics expert.
    #456 NMGlocker, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  17. Traditionally, pressure measurements, with regard to internal ballistics/small arms, are in CUP or Copper Units of Pressure.

    That being said, while pressure affects velocity, it is not always directly proportionate.
  18. uz2bUSMC

    uz2bUSMC 10mm defender

    Ahh, another one with poor understanding. Why bother, bro.:upeyes:
  19. NMGlocker

    NMGlocker BOOM headshot

    Oh, I understand it perfectly.
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.
  20. Are you aware of the additional visible wound damage done in human/animal flesh with a 125gr 357SIG bullet @ 1350fps - 1450fps compared to a 147gr 9mm load at 800fps - 900fps? It's shocking. No pun intended.

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