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200 grain alternative to SWC in .45 ACP

3K views 27 replies 13 participants last post by  smokey45 
#1 ·
Anyone shooting the flat point 200 grain Lee design? I loaded a batch and crimped in the top cannelure, and they won't chamber, or fit into a chamber gauge. What's your OAL? I'm shortening, to keep the bullet off the front of the chamber, but am a little concerned about pressure due to the amount of projectile in the case. Thanks.
 
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#4 ·
I think I'm going to be at 1.7 OAL to keep the bullet off the rifling. I'm going to determine seating depth needed to chamber, with the barrel out of the gun, and see where I am. I'll load 3-4 dummy rounds and see if they feed. Assuming they work OK, I'll shoot some at the lightest propellant charge shown, and look for signs of pressure. At your OALs, my bullet is at least .125 from fitting into a chamber gauge.
 
#5 ·
I think I'm going to be at 1.7 OAL to keep the bullet off the rifling. I'm going to determine seating depth needed to chamber, with the barrel out of the gun, and see where I am. I'll load 3-4 dummy rounds and see if they feed. Assuming they work OK, I'll shoot some at the lightest propellant charge shown, and look for signs of pressure. At your OALs, my bullet is at least .125 from fitting into a chamber gauge.
1.7???

What kind of barrel do you have? I always try to throat mine for cast.
You may need to ream and polish your chamber and throat.
 
#8 ·
I cast that bullet & it fits all my diff 45s. Every gun is diff, but somewhere around 1.170" oal should work. Yes you need to back off any max load. With WST, i need 1/10gr less vs my 200gr lswc for sim vel.
 
#10 ·
I use cartridge gauges to check my reloads. If the round fits tightly in the gauge, chances are it will cause trouble at the range.

May I suggest Lee Taper crimp dies for your final stage? The 45 acp head spaces on the forward end of the case so a crimp really fouls things up. After decades of reloading, I started having rounds that were too snug when chambered. The Lee taper crimp die solved that problem 100%. The dies are cheap, too!

I use the regular seating die only to position the bullet. By keeping the die body adjusted too high to crimp, there is no bulge. Then I touch it with the taper crimp die and TA DA........all fixed!

The Lee dies worked so well that I ordered them for all of my pistol cartridges and mount them in position 4 of the Dillon tool head.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/480528/rcbs-taper-crimp-seater-die-45-acp-45-gap

Flash
 
#11 · (Edited)
Oh no, lets not get started on the value of the LFCD.
Its likely the op has either over crimped or loaded a bit long for his bbl. I have never needed a lfcd, never will either. If i have a round that doesnt fit, something is wrong with it, generally bad brass, so it needs to be pulled & tossed, not ironed out inthe lfcd.
 
#12 ·
1.7 was a typo, indeed - should have read "1.17". Well I tested dummy rounds loaded to 1.162, and they fed just fine, but that was loading them by manually cycling the slide. At the range, the first round fed fine. On firing, the the slide would stop about .1 short of being fully closed. The gun will feed an empty case from the magazine into the chamber no problem, following firing of a live round, so I don't think the issue is the gun. Need to shorten them up a bit more and try again. Accuracy was very good.
 
#13 ·
Bayou sells a 200gr RNFP .45 bullet that looks pretty similar to that. I've used them.
I also like 200gr TC bullets. The only coated one I've found is from Ibejiheads. I've shot a bunch of them in my Glocks.

Speaking of concern over amount of bullet in the case, I posted this over on Enos's forum, which is where I'd learned of H&S. I just received my first order of H&S Bullets 230gr RNFP .45 bullets and was kind of shocked by how deep they have to be seated in order to drop in/out of the chambers in my Glocks and Sig. 1.175" is where I ended up. These bullets are about 0.02" shorter than 225gr TC bullets I've used, and loaded to just over 1.200"...so it's actually not too much deeper seated than the 225s, but they just look funny to me, and I kind of wonder if bulging the brass is going to be an issue as I assume the case walls thicken as you go down.
 
#14 ·
If are using a G30 or G36 you can almost figure a SWC is not going to work in those guns. Yes some people can get them to work sometimes. But to me it’s just not worth the hassle of trying to figure out what if any combination will work in those guns. I use 200 grain RN Tri-coat bullets.I think that is what they are called.
 
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#15 ·
#17 ·
I use a 200 FP meant for 45 Colt. While I cast, I shoot enough handgun that I don't want to spend that much time at it. I leave that for 45-70 and .376 for a 375 Win.

As to the FCD - I don't use them all the time, and not for the above load. However, in 9mm I do, but crimps are very slight. Once in a while, I feel the lead bullet get pushed in just a tad. I know it will work where if that didn't happen, it would be one I'd most likely have to remove from the chamber.

The other reason is so that I don't have to crimp with the seating die which allows quick changes between types of bullets in that only depth has to done. To each their own.
 
#18 ·
If I were a Bullseye shooter, shooting lead bullets, I likely wouldn't use the LFCD. Of course I'd be sorting brass, perhaps even trimming to length, (God Forbid). Fortunately, I only shoot action pistol sports. I have done enough testing to determine that for my purposes the FCD was not detrimental to accuracy. I know some will argue to the contrary, but my results are my results.

As to OAL, I first determine the max OAL for the bullet I'm loading in the shortest chamber I own in that caliber. The loaded rounds will then function through all my pistols in that caliber. I work up my loads using that seating depth. That way there are no worries as to excessive pressure due to seating depth. I chamber check every round that comes off my 650. I rarely find a cartridge that won't gauge.
s45
 
#19 ·
I chamber check every round that comes off my 650. I rarely find a cartridge that won't gauge.
s45
You already use the LFCD, but if you are gauging all your ammo, the LFCD is kinds pointless, as long as your dies are setup correctly. You are right though, accuracy degradation is minimal, hardly noticeable to maybe 75% of the shooters, but is there.
 
#23 ·
I wouldn't, but just as a matter for form. Clearly if you are shooting them from a revolver with stars the head spacing isn't an issue, but ammo does get left in boxes and drawers. You never know when they might end up in someone else's semi. They didn't name it 45 "auto" for no reason. ;)
 
#25 ·
Try the following 200gr lead round nose bullets. Here is a picture from SNS Casting (who make very good coated bullets.) As you can see, the nose is round, but there is a very slight "ledge" where the round nose meets the driving bands. This bullet feeds very well in my STI Trojan and my CZ-97b. When shooting paper targets, it leaves a somewhat cleaner hole than a pure lead round nose but not as good as the 200gr LSWC. I load this over 4.7 grains American Select and am happy with the results.

http://www.snscasting.com/45-acp-200-grain-round-nose-red-coated-500ct/
 
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