Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

1911 Questions

Discussion in '1911 Forums' started by J-DUBYA, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. J-DUBYA


    Apr 13, 2007
    Springfield, NE
    I'm putting together my list of future investments and need to know a little about 1911s. I've shot a couple and love the way they operate. 1911s and Sigs fit my hand like a glove, one of these are going to be my main defensive handgun in the future. Anyway, I had some questions about certain 1911 features:

    -What is the advantage of Series 70 type of guns versus non-series 70?

    -Is there a performance difference between solid, full-length guide rods in comparison to the traditional bushing recoil system?

    -Internal vs. External Extractors--opinions?

    I've looked a lot of this up on youtube, I'm just really interested in hearing your opinions. I trust the people here on Glocktalk to give good, honest info and feedback.

    By the way, the guns I have been looking at are the Kimber TLE II, Springfield Range Officer, Ruger SR 1911, and S&W TFP.
  2. bac1023


    Sep 26, 2004
    The Series 70 has an advantage of a cleaner trigger pull, easier field strip, and less to fail.

    There is no performance difference between the guide rods, though the extra weight from a full length can help some people shoot better.

    Internal extractors have a cleaner look, but both perform equally when both are done correctly. I have no problem with external extractors.

    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011

  3. BAC summed it up nicely.
  4. Series 70 only applies to Colt Government models that are marked that way. In the original models, Colt introduced a "collet" style barrel bushing that was intended to provide a tight barrel to bushing fit without needing hand-fitting. It wasn't terribly popular. I believe the recent Series 70s have a solid bushing.

    The Series 80 was also a Colt "innovation" where they added a firing pin block to the slide and a pair of levers that pushed that block up and clear of the firing pin as the trigger was pulled. The intent was to prevent the pistol from firing due to being dropped squarely on the muzzle. During such an, unlikely, instance the steel firing pin could develop enough inertia to move forward and strike the primer of a chambered round.

    Wayne Novak's method of preventing that was to use a firing pin made from lighter material, along with a heavier firing pin return spring. With such a solution, no mechanical firing pin blocks are needed. Springfield Armory has been using that design for years.

    Kimber has a Series II that offered firing pin block as well, though it is activated by the grip safety instead of the trigger.

    Other 1911 makers have used versions of both systems.

    No practical advantage to the FLGRs IMO, and they do complicate dis-assembly for me.

    External extactors can be built to function correctly, but on a 1911 they look like crap, to me. Since the internal functions just as well, what's the point?
  5. Ruggles


    Jun 13, 2005
    Good answers so far :)

    Of the guns listed I would go with the Kimber TLE II. I think it is one of the better sub $1000 1911 values around :) But both S&W and Springfield build nice 1911s, not sure about Ruger but I hear alot of good things so far.
  6. I agree on the Kimber TLE guns, they are among the few Kimber offers that actually justify their increased cost (over the standard models).
  7. the collet bushing actually works. if it doesn't break. after i sold my kimber, it's now my most accurate 1911. i think it was a good idea, just not possible from a longevity standpoint. the series 70 i sent to colt was fitted with the solid bushing. oth, i bet there's thousands that's had the crap shot out of them with the original fingered bushing intact. and the external extractors are ugly. although one of the most beautiful semi-autos in the world has one. bhp.
  8. But the P35 didn't start out with an external, that "upgrade" came much later.
  9. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

    Feb 1, 2005
    Yes, this is an accurate description of a Series 70. Unfortunately, many people (incorrectly) refer to 1911s without firing pin safeties as Series 70s and those with firing pin safeties as Series 80s. Like the 7 and 8 round "clips", this will probably be a misused nomenclature for some time.

    Since none of the guns the OP is looking at is a Colt, I am assuming this is the definition he is using.

    A simple one piece guide rod field strips pretty much the same way as a plug, so I'm not sure what the difference is. If you use a take down pin (and have the corresponding hole), I think it is actually simpler.

    My opinion on the firing pin safeties, while I certainly prefer to not have one, I have less of a problem with the trigger activated ones (Colt, Sig), than the grip safety activation (S&W, Kimber). When I go my Smith 1911, I was able to grip in in such a way that the trigger would be free but the firing pin block was still in place. This resulted in a click when trying to fire it. This was a brand new gun, btw. The new enhance series Smiths come without such nonsense, and I wish they were making them when I got mine. :sad:
  10. okie

    okie GT Mayor

    Oct 28, 2001
    Muskogee Ok.
    If you have the two piece GI guide rod, you can field strip without any tools:thumbsup::supergrin:
  11. MajorD


    Aug 16, 2010
    definitely no full length guide rod- they complicate stripping and more importantly limit your ability to clear malfunctions- with a really tight jam, you can strike the bottom half of the slide- basically punching the guide rod area of the muzzle against a post or something to clear- won't work with a flgr.
    I have not had any issues with any of my series 80 style guns with the firing pin safety but many people dislike them. it is just one more thing to go wrong.
    There have been issues with some people with kimbers swartz style firing pin safety activated by the grip safety- not to mention Kimbers well deserved reputation for spotty quality control.
    I much prefer an American made 1911 and of all those that exist I like Colt by far. Except for kimber and some boutique makers(the semi customs and STI) most all other 1911's are foreign made at least to a degree. I am NOT saying SA's are bad guns (there actually pretty good) but are still a foreign 1911. I can't stomach America's favorite pistol being stamped made in Brazil
  12. J-DUBYA


    Apr 13, 2007
    Springfield, NE
  13. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson

    Jul 10, 2001
    The GI guide rod is not two piece.
    There is a recoil spring guide and a plug, if that is what you are calling "two piece."
  14. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

    Feb 1, 2005
    No one has explained to me how the one piece is any harder than the GI style. Push in plug, turn bushing, release spring and plug, slide stop, strip... :dunno:
  15. J-DUBYA


    Apr 13, 2007
    Springfield, NE
    Maybe I mis-spoke by saying plunger-style. I like the recoil system of the Springfield mil-spec type guns. The GI style that BuckyP spoke of is what I had in mind.
  16. FOR ME, turning the bushing on FLGR means using a bushing wrench. Using just my fingers, I cannot find enough purchase on the rim of the FLGR plug to depress it far enough to turn the bushing.

    With the GI guide rod/plug, a bushing wrench is un-necessary for me, as I can easily push the plug in using the broad center.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
  17. BuckyP

    BuckyP Lifetime Member

    Feb 1, 2005
    OK, I'll buy that. The FLGR plug can bite a bit when using bare hands.