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185gr or 230gr hollow point for glock 30s

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Glock3819, Jun 28, 2013.


  1. Glock3819

    Glock3819
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    Both being +p. Which would recommend for CCW?
     

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  2. bac1023

    bac1023
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    I like to go with a lighter bullet with the shorter barrels.
     

  3. Glock3819

    Glock3819
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    185gr it is then. Thanks for the help.
     
  4. Kichigai

    Kichigai
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    気違い Was Mr30s

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    wow that was a quick decision :rofl:how does he even know that the person responding even has a clue :tongueout::couch:
     
  5. ray glock

    ray glock
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    200 gr.....:rofl:
     
  6. clarkz71

    clarkz71
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    I like the 185gr as well, either will do the job.
     
  7. Arnold Kuhl

    Arnold Kuhl
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    My question also. Have a new G30SF, CCWing, rotating with SIG239. Ballistically, why would a lighter bullet be more effective in a short bbl?

    I was thinking of getting the highly-touted Federal HST, but not sure if it comes in other bullet weights besides 230gr? And if it does come in the 185gr., which is better?

    Advice appreciated. Opinions on HST, Hornady Critical Defense, etc. welcomed.

    AK
     
  8. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan
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    This has been debated for decades, if not centuries.

    One way of looking at it is measuring the kinetic energy transferred to the target which is k = 1/2 * m * (v * v) - "one half m v squared"

    To actually work out the numbers, you need to get consistent units and all that stuff. It's not important, pick numbers like m=1 and v=1.

    Consider what happens when you double bullet mass - the kinetic energy increases by a factor of two: k for (m=1, v=1) => 1/2, k for (m=2, v=1) => 1. k has doubled from 1/2 to 1.

    Now consider what happens when you double velocity - the kinetic energy increases by a factor of four (v squared): k for (m=1, v=1) => 1/2, k for (m=1, v=2) = 2. k has quadrupled from 1/2 to 2.

    You get more kinetic energy from light fast bullets than you do from slow heavy bullets.

    These days everybody is excited about ballistic gelatin. They want to measure bullet expansion and penetration. This is probably the most useful way to test ammunition because it points out that a very fast 9mm FMJ will completely penetrate the target, doing little damage on the way through, and still have enough energy to ricochet and injure bystandards. Just ask NYPD! Moving to FMJ from JHP is a mistake!

    Then there is the problem that short barrel weapons don't achieve as much velocity. So, Speer comes out with SD rounds specifically designed for short barrels. They just have to use a powder with a faster burn rate.

    http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

    Just for comparison using my guns and my chronograph:

    Hornady .45 ACP 185 gr Critical Defense JHP
    Glock G21SF (4.6" barrel) 1008 fps average
    Glock G36 (3.78" barrel) 929 fps average

    A 15% decrease in kinetic energy for less than a 1" decrease in barrel length!

    I use either the 185 gr Critical Defense or the 230 gr Gold Dot and I figure either one will do a lot of damage. It really comes down to what I can get, not what I want!

    Richard
     
    #8 F106 Fan, Jun 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  9. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan
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    It is probably worth looking at the various YouTube gelatin tests before making a decision on ammo. You never know when you will be attacked by a block of Jello!

    Then there are the FBI tests which try to include the effects of clothing and bones.

    Or, buy what they have on the shelf!

    Richard
     
  10. Arnold Kuhl

    Arnold Kuhl
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    Richard, do you have any info, like ballistic gel test data, for the Federal HST? Everybody's talking about this load. Haven't found any here yet. But when I do, I'll bet it'll be about $30 for 20 rounds. Hornady Critical Defense is around $28 for 20 rounds, last time I saw it. Just outrageous! I guess what I'm wondering is: is this stuff really worth the money? Maybe my Hornady HP/XTP reloads are just as good for HD/SD.

    AK
     
  11. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan
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    Speer Gold Dot Personal Protection (PP) Short Barrel (SB) .45 ACP comes in 230 gr only whereas Gold Dot PP comes in both 185 gr and 230 gr.

    It could be a marketing thing or it just may be easier to get adequate velocity with a heavier bullet.

    My guess is that the bullet isn't in the barrel long enough to accelerate to higher velocities so the tradeoff is to use a slower, heavier, bullet.

    Speer 230 gr GDHP PP SB .45 ACP -> 820 fps

    Speer 230 gr GDHP PP -> 890 fps
    Speer 185 gr GDHP PP -> 1050 fps

    Richard
     
    #11 F106 Fan, Jun 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  12. ray glock

    ray glock
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    My best advice would be to use whichever your particular gun shoots best. If it is accurate and functions well then you are good to go. Most of my guns like certain loads much better than others. Some guns shoot most everything equally well. My first concern is always accuracy and function over how the bullet acts when it hits the target.

    I like 200 gr. but I use 185gr. and 230gr. often in various pistols depending on which gun I am shooting and what I want to accomplish.

    You want be satisfied until you do some experimenting on your own.
     
  13. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan
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    I don't have anything like that. I would look at YouTube for video and see what's out there. For a first approximation, I want to know bullet weight and muzzle velocity. I also want to know what barrel length they used for the test. I don't care how fast the bullet is out of a 36" barrel!

    All ammo is outrageous at the moment. Who cares? It's not like I'm going to buy more than a couple of boxes. We have a bunch of Ranger and Ranger T ammo for the .40s so we're in pretty good shape. The .45s are loaded with Speer, Hornady, Remington and even some old Black Talon. We're good...

    I have always figured that a large hole, well placed, makes up for a loss of technology. Hits count!

    Richard
     
    #13 F106 Fan, Jun 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  14. SD Handgunner

    SD Handgunner
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    I did some chronographing a week ago with both a Model 21SF and a Model 30SF. I ran 3 brands & types of ammo through both guns.

    First up was a Glock Model 30SF (3.78" Barrel.

    Remington 185gr. +P Jacketed Hollow Points
    1st - 1064
    2nd - 1088
    3rd - 1075
    4th - 1068
    5th - 1071
    Average 1073
    Extreme Spread 24
    Standard Deviation 5.74

    CCI Blazer 200gr. Jacketed Hollow Points
    1st - 912.1
    2nd - 934.1
    3rd - 934.1
    4th - 938.4
    5th - 926.4
    Average 929
    Extreme Spread 21.9
    Standard Devation 6.25

    Federal 230gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
    1st - 798.8
    2nd - 802.1
    3rd - 817.9
    4th - 801.6
    5th - 807.4
    Average 806
    Extreme Spread 19.1
    Standard Deviation 5.37

    Next up was a Glock Model 21SF 4.6" Barrel

    Remington 185gr. +P Jacketed Hollow Points
    1st - 1122
    2nd - 1114
    3rd - 1114
    4th - 1123
    5th - 1128
    Average 1120
    Extreme Spread 14
    Standard Deviation 5

    CCI Blazer 200gr. Jacketed Hollow Points
    1st - 974.3
    2nd - 977.7
    3rd - 995.9
    4th - 970.5
    5th - 970.5
    Average 978
    Extreme Spread 25.4
    Standard Deviation 6.07

    Federal 230gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
    1st - 853.3
    2nd - 840.7
    3rd - 849.9
    4th - 864.9
    5th - 829.9
    Average 848
    Extreme Spread 35
    Standard Deviation 7.04

    http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp

    The data at the above link is fairly old but should give you a bit of an idea of how some of the bullets-n-loads compare to each other both in standard and short barrels.

    As for me, I carry the CCI 200gr. Jacketed Hollow Points in my Glock Model 30SF where as in the Glock Model 21SF I carry what the town issues me the Federal 230gr. Jacketed Hollow Points.

    Larry

    PS comparing the average velocities I obtained the average muzzle velocity difference between the Glock Model 30SF and the Glock Model 21SF ranged from 42 FPS to 49 FPS with the 3 brands & types of ammo I actually chronographed.
     
    #14 SD Handgunner, Jun 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  15. F106 Fan

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    Well, "one-stop-shot" first requires a solid hit. I wouldn't spend a lot of time with the percentages without knowing a lot more about the hits. Bullets with similar expansion and penetration have different percentages and one way to account for this a poor shot placement in some cases.

    Here's an interesting article that describes various ways of looking at ammo:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stopping_power

    Richard
     
  16. D-Ric902

    D-Ric902
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    I go with what shoots better in mine
    185 grain shoot all right but not to point of aim
    230 grain are right on top of the front sight
     
  17. Glock3819

    Glock3819
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    I plan on using underwood ammunition. Anyone have any information on how the 185gr shoots?
     
  18. Glock 23 Nutter

    Glock 23 Nutter
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    Yeah, good thing he didn't recommend Litter-box left-overs. :supergrin:

    To the OP's Question:

    The 230 gr. +P Federal HST out of the G30/36 3.78" Bbl. has the some velocity as the std. pressure 230 gr. HST out of a 4.6" G21.

    So it will performs like this.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWW2Y-IZpyE"].45 ACP Federal HST 230 gr Ammo Gel Test - YouTube[/ame]

    And that is why I run them as my G36 SD load.


    Beware, the Tarantula.




    Nutter
     
  19. glockman99

    glockman99
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    Speer 230 grain Gold Dot...That's the one I bet MY life on.
     
  20. 4949shooter

    4949shooter
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    Ther Speer Gold Dot "short barrel" ammunition has a modified hollowpoint design:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAw62lcB4M"]Speer 45 acp 230gr Gold Dot Short Barrel ballistic gel test - YouTube[/ame]