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155gr Gold Dots over XTPs in popularity ?

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by preventec47, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. preventec47

    preventec47

    265
    5
    May 2, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    It seems like the consensus preference is the Gold Dots
    in that weight range based on recent posts and testing etc.
    Is that deserved ? Or is it based on the mission ? What I have
    concluded from all the info posted is that the XTPs are
    the tougher bullet in 155gr and thusly should outperform
    at very high velocities by holding together better and
    at lower velocities the Gold Dots expand more.
    Is that what most everyone else has concluded ?

    I am not a pistol hunter and 155gr to me is the best
    overall compromise for Self Defense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  2. Andrew Wiggin

    Andrew Wiggin

    626
    0
    Dec 15, 2011
    I'm pretty new to the 10mm and I can't speak for anyone else. The XTP has a general reputation - across calibers and weights - of doing poorly through clothing and barriers. The GDHP is very well regarded for opening well through clothing and doing very well through barriers. It is one of the best regarded JHPs on the market. Some folks argue that it over expands at 10mm velocity but I think that the pictures below disprove that. It is a 155gr GDHP I fired through water at approximately 1,375fps. I think the XTP is a lot more useful in heavier weights for animal defense and hunting. In that application the barrier and clothing performance is irrelevant and its tough construction is even more important. I'll be carrying 200gr XTPs this summer in rim country.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     


  3. gofastman

    gofastman

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    Jan 29, 2010
    MN
    I would agree with this when compairing modern self defence bullets like the Tac-XP, GD, HST, etc.

    But I would guess that they are at least as good as something like a Hydra-shok or a Silver tip.

    XTP's bullets appear to like velocity, despite the manner that Hornady manufactures their ammo.


    yes
    if you want the most nuclear load possible while still retaining weigh, the XTP is probably the better choice.
    if you are preferential to what would be considered nuclear .40s&w velocity (1300fps?), the GD is probably better.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  4. preventec47

    preventec47

    265
    5
    May 2, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    There is mention of "general reputation" of XTP poor performance
    through clothing and barriers but I cant find anywhere on Glocktalk
    where performance in water or wax or gel shows any poor performance.
    That is why I am asking.
    I was just trying to make sure we were not making decisions on heresay.
    No question the GoldDots look great but at that highest
    velocity where the petals are peeling off in wax and water,
    how do the XTPs fare ? I know just about everything
    has been covered in Glock Talk but I cant find it.
    Scott in Atlanta
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  5. JPP

    JPP

    239
    0
    Aug 12, 2010
    XTP are less expensive, always available and they shoot great
     
  6. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,602
    112
    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    I would have no problems running either of them in a SD situation. Both have strengths and weaknesses.
     
  7. Andrew Wiggin

    Andrew Wiggin

    626
    0
    Dec 15, 2011
    A quick Google search yields a few tests where XTP did very poorly against denim, with little or no expansion and excessive penetration. It's not hearsay at all, it is fairly well established that XTPs are sub optimal performers against heavy clothing. They are also less effective against barriers than other modern JHPs. I agree that they are probably no WORSE than obsolete designs such as Hydrashok but I wouldn't intentionally choose them for defense against two legged critters.

    As I mentioned, I think GDHP is plenty tough at 10mm velocity, despite Speer's recommendation. 21Carrier's tests as well as my own informal water jug "test" both indicate the bullets are plenty tough. Several of the other bullets he tested did well and if you are really concerned about the bullet holding together, use an all copper such as the TAC-XP.

    For my purposes, I intend to carry either 155gr or 165gr GDHP (once I determine penetration depth) in town and 200gr XTP for defense against the smallish bear we have in AZ. The XTP is a fantastic bullet when barrier and clothing isn't a concern.
     
  8. JPP

    JPP

    239
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    Aug 12, 2010
    so you are saying you would trust XTP against bears.....but not trust XTP to penetrate jeans?
     
  9. ryangt

    ryangt

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    Jul 27, 2010
    As long as the bears don't wear jeans!

    On a serious note, I always looked at the xtp as more of a bonded hunting round than a street load.
     
  10. Andrew Wiggin

    Andrew Wiggin

    626
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    Dec 15, 2011
    Yes, actually. First off, penetration is tantamount when discussing bear defense. And as ryangt mentioned, bears aren't in the habit of wearing jeans. Except for Smoky, but he's a nice guy.

    The XTP is a great bullet that works really well in bare gel. As I've said, it's not good through barriers or thick clothing. It's also on a very short list of JHPs in that weight range.
     
  11. gofastman

    gofastman

    496
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    Jan 29, 2010
    MN
    I have a feeling the faster you push an XTP the better it will perform against clothing. Perhaps because you increase the chance to build up hydraulic pressure in the cavity, maybe thats why Hornady's SLOW loadings of their XTP's do so poorly in testing.
    Im just thinking out-loud though and have no real data to back this up
     
  12. preventec47

    preventec47

    265
    5
    May 2, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    I am considering filling the nose hollow point up with
    silicone caulk in all my hollow point bullets. It would
    be similar to all the other plastic tip bullets but without
    the point. It probably would not add more than a grain
    or two but would certainly keep the hole from filling
    up with other stuff. The slight possibility I guess might
    be that being filled up with silicone would be worse
    than with clothing. Nah not really, too much trouble.
    Neat idea though I think. I am surprised we have not
    seen any mfg do it already
     
  13. Ethereal Killer

    Ethereal Killer

    363
    0
    Aug 24, 2011
    that is an oversimplification of what he said. he said that XTP do not EXPAND thru some barriers at the velocities tested. they tended to clog up and thus just act like and FMJ.

    For SD use at normal velocities the Gold Dots are top notch, but at 10mm velocities they tend to overexpand and then overpenetrate and thus perform better at lower velocities than higher velocities
     
  14. Ethereal Killer

    Ethereal Killer

    363
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    Aug 24, 2011
  15. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

    19,743
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    Sep 4, 2009
    U.S.A.
    I'm sure they've tried many different things. They go with what works.
     
  16. Andrew Wiggin

    Andrew Wiggin

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    Dec 15, 2011
    gofastman and preventec47: Good ideas. Why not test them through some old jeans into water?

    Ethereal Killer: I think you mean that the GDs would under penetrate when over expanded. My own water test showed less penetration than I expected from 21Carrier's wax test. I wish there were more data available.

    I'm concerned about over penetration with 180gr bullets.
     
  17. Ethereal Killer

    Ethereal Killer

    363
    0
    Aug 24, 2011
    depends on impact velocity and energy.

    if it holds together the petals wrap back against the body of the bullet and it thus has less surface area but still retains the energy, thus it tends to over penetrate.

    If it fragments completely then it should under penetrate.

    As to silicon noses, Hornady has that on their current generation of premium self defense bullets called the Critical defense. Others have tried it in the past with limited success. I think it's a worthwhile thing to try myself, but one would have to look at the velocities that teh bullet was designed for.

    for instance, we might see the 200gr XTP respond really well to a silicon nose plug, where the 180gr didnt.

    If we are to believe that Hornady's suggested velocities listed in the link i provided above, are good, AND that the faster you drive it within it's operational range the more it expands, THEN the 180gr XTP is about the perfect 10mm bullet, as the extra speed the 10mm provides can be used towards both expansion AND penetration, giving us ideal woods gun and a dern decent bullet for peoples too.

    IF we were to run those jean tests with a 180XTP at say 1250 and it didnt clog then we'd basically have our answer. If it did clog then maybe the silicon might work (assuming it didnt act like a pre-clogged projectile). If neither of those worked then we are stuck with just a decent penetrating woods load.
     
  18. gofastman

    gofastman

    496
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    Jan 29, 2010
    MN
    I'm guessing the "plug" in the Critical Defence ammo is a very low durometer (like 20A low) urethane, not silicone
    but hey, it never hurts to try! be safe doing it though.





    sorry to be pedantic, but SiliCON is a crystalline element found in nature,
    SiliCONE is usually rubbery goop that is made from polymers containing silicon
    OK I'm done venting now :soap: :supergrin:
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  19. gofastman

    gofastman

    496
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    Jan 29, 2010
    MN
  20. blastfact

    blastfact

    1,657
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    Aug 15, 2011
    Oklahoma
    90% of my loaded up ammo is XPT's. They do have to be driven on the warm side to be effective. And I have never seen any barrier or clothing issues with my testing and shooting.

    And I shoot a lot of XTP's. I can afford to plink, drill, target shoot with the round I'm going to use on a bad guy if it ever happens. Reloading allows me this shooting luxury as I see.

    The bullets have a fantastic bearing surface. And loaded up right are very accurate. My new M&P9 took this harddrive out at 10 yards on it's very first mag NIB-Cleaned with 124gn XTP's over 4.3gn of TightGroup. A load setup for my PF-9. The first five rounds took out the Western Digital Bull off hand. The other 12 all hit the HD. First Mag with a new pistol.

    [​IMG]

    I like XTP's! :)

    Edit: OOO ,,,, and there great 10mm bullets, , , snicker. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2012