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14 inch barreled shotgun without tax stamp

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by JimBean, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. JimBean

    JimBean

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    Dec 19, 2012
    I am quite surprised this is possible if true anyone care to confirm this?


    http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

    ” Without a buttstock ever having been fitted to the PGO firearms in question, they can’t be fired from the shoulder and are therefore not shotguns. Hence, with a 14″ barrel, they can’t be considered short-barreled shotguns, as they aren’t shotguns to begin with. Read the full definition of a shotgun here.
    PGO firearms that remain longer than 26″ in overall length also can’t be defined as AOWs. That’s because the term “any other weapon” (AOW) means “any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person…” And ATF maintains that to be concealed, the firearm needs to be shorter than 26″
     
  2. RWBlue

    RWBlue Mr. CISSP, CISA CLM

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    Jan 24, 2004
    I could conceal that. IMHO, it is an AOW.
     


  3. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
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    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida

    It's the same loophole that's been used to get AR-15 "pistols" with long enough barrels (12.5", I think) to put them over 26" with forward grips on them and not need a tax stamp.

    IMO, it's just a matter of time before the ATF or some congress critter does something to change this, and requires registration of any such configuration under the NFA.
     
  4. there is too much left to interpretation of the ATF for me to feel comfortable with that. i did look into it as well myself.

    the shockwave raptor birdshead is pretty awesome. i currently have on a mossberg 500 persuader 8 shot.
     
  5. willieH

    willieH

    2,329
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    May 4, 2012
    Tennessee
    If the firearm is originally designed and manufactured subject to concealed weapons laws it is treated as a pistol. This mares leg sold as a pistol.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. JimBean

    JimBean

    234
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    Dec 19, 2012
    Ok so where the heck can I get ahold of a virgin 870 receiver?

    To make this
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Nalapombu

    Nalapombu Millennium Member

    2,976
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    Oct 21, 1999
    Spring, TEXAS....USA
    So if that's the case then why aren't these flying off the shelves? It seems like it would be the case if you could get that SBS without a stamp of any kind.

    How do you get one then?

    Nalajr
     
  8. Nalapombu

    Nalapombu Millennium Member

    2,976
    162
    Oct 21, 1999
    Spring, TEXAS....USA
    One more thing, if this is true and you can get that Mossy 500 with that 14 inch barrel without a stamp or waiting period from the Government, before I would unbox it I would make darn sure I had about 5 copies of the letter from the BATFE stating it was indeed completely legal and legit. I could only imagine what it would be like trying to explain that to your local LEO. "Look on this website officer, I don't have my Form 4 because it says I don't need one, the BATFE has said it's OK. Can I go now?"

    You think that would fly?

    Nalajr
     
  9. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

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    Jan 26, 2001
    really? how much trouble, paperwork,... is the tax stamp and what ever to just lob off 4" of bbl from your 18" gun?
     
  10. RonS

    RonS Millennium Member

    12,571
    2,292
    May 27, 1999
    Oh, USA
    Silly and pointless IMHO. You skirt the law to the point of inviting arrest and an expensive legal battle to get a little bit of cool factor and a weapon that doesn't give you that much real utility. Each his own.
     

  11. Skirting the law and inviting arrest is what has made my life exciting!:wavey::whistling::rofl:
     
  12. Narkcop

    Narkcop

    2,271
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    Jan 12, 2003
    Kentucky
    I do not believe that to be acurate or a gun maker would already be selling them.
     
  13. RWBlue

    RWBlue Mr. CISSP, CISA CLM

    23,521
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    Jan 24, 2004
    Funny thing is, no one ever asks for my paperwork for my SBRs or Suppressors.

    I have shot at public ranges, private ranges and private property. Maybe because I look like I look like or maybe because I have the paperwork.

    I think I could get away with making illegal guns, but for $200 it is just not worth the risk.
     
  14. While that set up may get you around federal laws, how many states hav e barrel length laws?

    Traveling around with one could be a nightmare.

    posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
     
  15. PattonT

    PattonT

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    May 22, 2010
    South East
    They have been making those for years, requires a $5 AOW tax stamp to transfer but the manufacturer pays I believe $200 to manufacture. So basically you pay ~$600 for a shotgun.
     
  16. JimBean

    JimBean

    234
    1
    Dec 19, 2012
    Are you sure about that? The ATF definition of AOW
    is

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-aow.html
    "Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, "

    The set up in the original post is over 26 inches long.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  17. PattonT

    PattonT

    1,539
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    May 22, 2010
    South East
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  18. JimBean

    JimBean

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    Dec 19, 2012
    18 must be the barrel length. I rechecked the first letter posted on the link in the original post. The ATF's definition of AOW includes must be less than 26 inches overall. The serbu shotgun would fit that but not the 14inch barreled Mossberg 500 which is 26.5 inches with the raptor grip.
     
  19. Current Resident

    Current Resident

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    Dec 15, 2012
    Motor City
    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html

    Here is what is said from the Michigan State police web-site.


    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]3. Do rifles or shotguns with collapsible/folding stocks have to be registered in Michigan?[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]MCL 750.222 Yes, provided the rifle or shotgun is 30 inches or less in overall length with the stock collapsed/folded but at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches and 18 inches respectively. Attorney General's opinion #6280: if the firearm is less than 26 inches in overall length or the barrel is less than 16 or 18 inches respectively, the firearm is considered a short-barreled rifle or shotgun and is illegal to possess. MCL 750.224d There is an exception for short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles which the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector's item not likely to be used as a weapon.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The possessor must comply with Section 2 (License to Purchase) of Act 372.[/FONT]

    I have seen a single shot 12 gauge with a full stock and we measured 16 1/2" barrel. The overall length on it is 32". I always wondered if that was legal to have per what I read in that statement. I believe it is.
     
  20. Not the way I read the AG opinion you quoted.

    The way I read that if a shotgun has an 18" barrel, is over 26" but less than 30" it needs to be registered in MI. If the barrel is less than 18" it is a short barreled shotgun and needs to be registered with the Atf.
    posted from my stupid smart phone, please excuse any spelling mistakes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013