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135 Nosler with #9 - Unimpressive Velocity, and ideas?

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by atyszka, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. atyszka

    atyszka

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    Aug 27, 2012
    Minnesota
    Hi guys, wondering if anyone has any insight as to why I got results so far off form AA book. The recipe for 17.5 gr of #9 with the 135 Nosler is supposed to be 1507, I didn't get anywhere near that. I'm sure a 5" barrel could be worth a few fps, but not sure it could account for another 100+.

    I know #9 is probably too slow for such a light bullet, but has anyone had different (better) results than this or ideas as to what I could tweak? Thanks

    My results

    G20, 22 lb spring
    50F, 95% Humidity, 902 ft elevation
    135 gr Nosler HP
    AA #9
    Starline brass, new
    1.255 OAL
    CCI 350

    16.5 gr = 1314 fps avg
    1295, 1332, 1315, 1316, 1312

    16.8 gr = 1325 fps avg
    1341, 1323, 1321, 1306, 1336

    17.2 gr = 1335 fps avg
    1354, 1328, 1330, 1320, 1347

    17.5 gr = 1373 fps avg
    1329, 1410, 1379, 1359, 1389
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  2. gofastman

    gofastman

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    Jan 29, 2010
    MN
    Id try a standard primer and see what happens
     

  3. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,522
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    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    AA#9 is great for metered measuring, provides uniform numbers mostly, However, it is on the slow side and the amount needed to produce results is not cost effective.
    I do use AA#9 for some loadings but I prefer Blue Dot, LongShot, Power Pistol, AA#7 and even IMR800X in the 10mm across the bullet weight spectrum.

    Lately I have considered 800X to yield the best results for velocity, LongShot also but produces more pressure at same velocities.
    Blue Dot for the best accuracy and all around use.
     
  4. atyszka

    atyszka

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    Aug 27, 2012
    Minnesota
    I have several pounds of 800x, but it meters so poorly I can't use it in my Dillon SD. #9 meters extremely well, burns very clean and accuracy is excellent, but I hear ya on the efficiency.

    Of the powders you mention, what do you think is best for a light bullet (ruling out 800x as I don't want to hand weigh each charge)? I have a pound of #7 that I will try too.

    Thanks
     
  5. ModGlock17

    ModGlock17

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    Wish you live close, i can buy those 800x lbs from you.

    I went through the same process as you are, and settled on 800x for lighter bullets (135gr and 155gr). I got 11.0gr of 800x on 135gr with CCI 300, to yield 1,620fps. That is enough for me.

    Yes, I weighed them by hand for awhile and discovered that +/- 0.2gr on a fully filled dispenser is accurate enough. AND, it is so coarse that after it is filled, I can pretty much eye ball it by looking into the case, to tell whether or not it is seriouly over-filled. Uncertainty on the weight is dangerous if you live at the edge. I backed off the edge to account for the uncertainty as I realize a few tens of fps doesn't make that much of a difference anyway, so why beat yourself up to achieve such tolerance ?
     
  6. OhioGlockMan

    OhioGlockMan

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    Mar 1, 2010
    Akron, Ohio
    I'd bet a fresh crisp ben franklin the sad sorry velocity is due to AA#9 being too slow of a powder for 135 grain as it is a very very light weight bullet for caliber. I'd make a bet you could make em go 1600 FPS no prb with alliant power pistol
     
  7. atyszka

    atyszka

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    Aug 27, 2012
    Minnesota
    Maybe I'll give the 800x another try and just keep it conservative and see what I get, since it's paid for and collecting dust. If I remember I was getting +/- .5 gr, which made me uncomfortable. Another interesting thing to see with inconsistent speeds will be the groups. Could be horrible, could be minor. Only one way to find out I guess. :whistling:
     
  8. ModGlock17

    ModGlock17

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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  9. Yondering

    Yondering

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    Dec 3, 2011
    Of the Accurate powders, AA7 is much better suited to light 10mm bullets than AA9. If you have some, give it a try. Even with 155gr bullets, AA7 can beat AA9 by 100+ fps in my gun. AA9 just runs out of powder capacity before you ever see max pressure.
     
  10. atyszka

    atyszka

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    Aug 27, 2012
    Minnesota
    Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to work up a few with the #7 I have and again see what kind of consistency I can get with the 800x. I'll report back with the results once I can get out to the range.
     
  11. MakeMineA10mm

    MakeMineA10mm * * * * Millennium Member Lifetime Member

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    Feb 13, 1999
    Central Illinois
    I'm a big proponent of AA#9 in the 10mm, because it has the right combination of stored energy, loading density, and pressure curve for the case volume of our cartridge. However, that holds true only for heavy bullets of about 175gr and heavier. From 180gr to 175gr, several other powders work just as well. Once you go below 170grs, AA#9 loses most of its efficiences, and better powders are available.

    My proponency of AA#9 is based on my feeling that bullets below 165grs are not useful/beneficial and are against the basis for which this cartridge was invented/intended.

    For super lightweight bullets, I'd definitely recommend a faster-burning powder, such as Herco, AA#7, or HS-6.
     
  12. MakeMineA10mm

    MakeMineA10mm * * * * Millennium Member Lifetime Member

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    Oh yeah, and Power Pistol. Good post OGM!
     
  13. TDC20

    TDC20

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    Apr 11, 2011
    There isn't a lot of published data for the 135gr. bullets in 10mm. If you're willing to go "off book", and your main objective is top velocities, Longshot makes a pretty good 135gr load. I get 1700fps from my LWD 6" barrel with 12.6gr Longshot and a CCI#300 standard primer. That hits around 1570fps or so from the stock barrel. Pressure is reasonable, but it's a full power load, so work up to that with due caution. Accuracy isn't all that great, but that seems to be the case with 135's out of my gun.
     
  14. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,703
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    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    I haven't gone as light as 135 with A9, but a book max of A9 under a 155 XTP gets 1425 fps in my stock G20 barrel. So a higher velocity with a heavier bullet and less powder. I have a hypothesis as to why.

    A9 is sensitive to neck tension and needs a high bullet pull to perform best. I am curious if you sized the brass prior to seating the bullet? I noticed that you used new brass, so I am not sure if you sized it first. If not, I imagine that sizing your brass would increase neck tension on that small bullet an help build a head of steam a bit. Also, seating a little deaper might help some too (if there is room for powder). I also agree with trying a standard primer too.

    A9 is my favorite 10mm powder, but it is best for 200s. I am not a fan of 800-X, but one application that it works extremely well for in my G20 is with that little Nosler. I have had velocities average 1700 fps with 800-X. This is with a bone stock G20. I do not recommend 1700 fps, but 1500 or 1550 is doable without too much trouble.

    Since you have some cans of 800-X onhand, this has been the most suitable application that I have personally encountered for that powder.
     
  15. blastfact

    blastfact

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    Aug 15, 2011
    Oklahoma
    I like many have played with the 135's. Honestly it was a waste of time and money. I could make them go like goose poo or slow them down to 9mm 124gn bullet loads or .40 usless Smith loads and they did not shoot well out of my LW 5.15" barrel. They were not as accurate as I like. Even had some tumble on me at the higher speeds with bigger holes in paper. I figure they where trying to shed there jacket.

    The most accurate loads were Power Pistol and Blue Dot of the powders I had on hand. And Blue Dot would drive the bullet to full on nuke goose poo speeds.

    I did not shoot any of these loads out of the worthless Glock thing they call a barrel and chamber. I haven't shot anything out of that whore loose chamber with the euro trash swirls in the tube.
     
  16. atyszka

    atyszka

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    Aug 27, 2012
    Minnesota
    Lol, don't hold back on how you really feel . . .

    I loaded some up with #7 and had good accuracy around 1360 fps with 13.6 gr.

    I also tried 800X through my Dillon SD, that was a waste of time. The best I could get was +/- .5 gr and velocities ranged 1274 - 1494 with an "average" of 11.2 gr. That's obviously way too much deviation.

    I'm done experimenting with 135 Noslers for now and am working up some 180 XTPs with #9, which will likely be my SD round once I'm happy with one.
     
  17. ModGlock17

    ModGlock17

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    Kegs posted a deer kill using the 135gr that went through 12" of the deer then exited. See the 10 Ring stickie called 10mm Hunting thread. There was another person on a separate thread having similar experience. they got my attention because I didn't think the 135gr at 1,500+ fps can penetrate 12" of tissue, much less continued on and exited the animal.

    I had previously viewed the 135gr as preferred SD round because you'd want low collateral damage in home invasion situations. I was, until those two data points. BG thicker than 12" don't generally burglarizing homes, slender ones do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  18. blastfact

    blastfact

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    Aug 15, 2011
    Oklahoma
    I use 155gn XTP's for HD, SD, and range target shooting. And yes I buy a lot of XTP's. I was not impressed with Noslers. I could make them speedy as hell. Was like the 185gn .45 acp's,,,, Really.
     
  19. atyszka

    atyszka

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    Aug 27, 2012
    Minnesota
    Yeah, I read Keg's post and am surprised! It's contrary to most of what we hear and see in gel tests, but the proof was there in the form of some tasty backstrap. It has me rethinking all the 180 XTPs I have in the cabinet. I still have 350 - 400 135 gr Noslers that I am for sure going to use as my .40 CC round.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012
  20. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,703
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    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    I have never trusted 800-X with a powder dispenser. 100% of them are hand weighed if loaded on my bench. I am finally down to my last pound of 800-X. When that is gone, I will likely never buy it again.

    I like th 180 XTP in the 1225 fps range. Good all around bullet. A9 and Blue Dot fit that just fine for me and my Glock 20 (stock barrel, sorry blastfact! :supergrin:).

    Thanks for keeping us posted on your efforts.