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135 Nosler JHP 14.5g 800X Still Safe?

Discussion in '10mm Reloading Forum' started by JayAlonG2910mm, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm

    19
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    Mar 28, 2010
    I have finally got my hands on some 135 Noslers, and want to work up to nuclear velocities.

    I plan to start around 10g and work my way up, just to be safe.

    BUT,

    I have read conflicting reports on the maximum load of IMR 800x.


    12.7g vs 14.5g Both of these seem to produce similar velocities.


    Has the formula of 800x recently changed? I know that the 14.5g load is no longer being published.
     
  2. Whaledriver

    Whaledriver

    170
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    Dec 21, 2006
    Kansas
    The best I can tell you is work up your own loads. I think the 10g would be a good start especially if you have a stock barrel. As you mentioned 12.7 was as far as I needed to go with my gun, stock g20sf. You may or may or may not get to the 14.5. I did a lot of research on the 14.5 load and it seems that most people think it is an overcharged load, some don't. My feeling is I don't want to blow up a gun to see a few more fps on the chrono. Even at 12.7 the case was very full making the bullet seating an adventure. Also my limited experience with 800x seems to pressure spike rapidly when pushed to max pressures. This coincides with Hodgdon max 800x 10mm loads are all around 30,000 psi. Let us know how the loads turn out. Have fun and be safe.
     


  3. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm

    19
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    Mar 28, 2010
    Thanks for the quick reply, I have blown up my gun before with a 230g Hardcast, and a bit too much 800x, so I am a little scared to push the limits until I know it's safe.

    I loaded 20 each 10g, 10.5g, 11g, 11.5g. From here on I am going to increase the load .1g until I get a glock smile, or other excess pressure signs.
     
  4. _The_Shadow

    _The_Shadow Ret. Fireman

    4,520
    21
    Jul 23, 2007
    Southeast, LoUiSiAna
    JayAlonG2910mm, sounds like you had learned from the book of "HARD KNOCKS"!

    I have yet to work with the 800X powder, to date I have worked with Blue Dot, Power Pistol and AA #7 & #9 with the 10mm and those and some others with 9x25Dillon. I hand weigh each and every charge comparing on two different scales for weight agreement. I like 0.01 graing increments when working to the upper edge comparing 10 rounds at these weights, comparing cases, primers, velocities and pistol performance to the load used.

    I guess you could say I air on the side of safety, with my hands and body on the line. We can NOT change the physics of the situation, push too hard and something will experience the affect!
     
  5. jeffreybehr

    jeffreybehr Silver Member

    765
    3
    Mar 14, 2009
    Phoenix, AZ USA
    Jay, I finally found that apparently-pre-Hodgdon IMR load you mentioned...in the One Book / One Caliber book for the .40S&W/10mm--14.5g. of 800X for 1670FPS and 33,100PSI from a 5" barrel.

    I just filled a new Starline case to the brim with 800X, well settled with many taps and my finger covering the opening; it held a little less than 17 grains. I then refilled one to about a 1/4" down from the rim; that charge weighed c. 10-1/2 grains. A 14.5g. charge would be VERY compressed under any bullet you chose.

    If I were attempting a maximum-velocity 135g. load, I'd use Accurate #5. That's the powder Lyman gets the highest velocity with (1397FPS from 9.8g. @ 28,200 CUP), and Accurate gets 1503FPS using 11.4g. at 36,900PSI*. Starting with new cases, I'd load FIVE (not twenty) rounds of each weight, starting at 9 grains and increasing 0.3g. at a time, thru maybe 9.9g., for the 1st trip, keeping each batch of fired cases separate, and then resize and reprime those that had 9.9 in them to determine how tight the primer pockets were. If the pockets of the 9.9s were tight, I'd creep upward 0.2g. each step for a few more steps.

    Do you have a chronograf? IMO, every reloader ought to have one.

    Good luck and be safe.


    * You understand, of course, that Copper Units of Pressure and Pounds per Square Inch are NOT equivalent pressure readings.
     
  6. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm

    19
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    Mar 28, 2010
    I just got back from the range.

    WOW even at 12g this load feels like a .44 magnum, and my half inch steel target has the dents to prove it! Recoil with the stock G29 spring was very snappy and followups were slow. I wouldn't suggest this as a SD round, though it is quite fun to shoot.

    I worked up to 12g tonight and have no obvious pressure signs... yet. (EDIT: Minor Glock smiles on 1/5)

    I will work up to 12.5 tomorrow and see how that goes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  7. Meathead9

    Meathead9

    1,207
    3
    Aug 23, 2009
    The PRK
    With the load data I have seen, the max charge varied with the type of primer used. Are you using standard or mag primers?

    I have a pound of 800X, a couple boxes of 135gr Noslers, CCI300's & Winchester LPP's. I'll be working up the same load for my G20L soon.
     
  8. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm

    19
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    Mar 28, 2010
    I have been using CCI 350 Mag primers.

    I just went through my brass, and a few of the 12.0g charges are exhibiting minor Glock smiles from my stock G29 Barrel.

    I plan to try a few tomorrow with CCI 300 primers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  9. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm

    19
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    Mar 28, 2010
    I was also using a very heavy crimp, could that cause overpressure?
     
  10. JTknives

    JTknives

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    Dec 1, 2009
    i had problems of flattened primers when using CCI-350 primers. but i have heard that CCI-350 and imr-800x don't mix well. and that CCI-300 is a better primer for that powder.
     
  11. MSgt Dotson

    MSgt Dotson

    3,268
    8
    Sep 30, 2006
    I don't think I'd proceed beyond having visible "Glock smiles"/aka 6 oclock 'pregancy syndrome' on the cases using the factory barrel. IMO, such a bulge is eventually asking for trouble. YOur next warning could very well be a blowout, and, hopefully you will not see sympathetic detonation of ogther rounds in the mag, cracking the frame, etc....(Hopefully!)

    A tighter aftermarket bbl alone will likely increase velocity by 50 -75 FPS as less pressure will be wasted fireforming the cases to the large (i.e., closer to max spec) GLock chambers....; in fact, once going to a tighter aftermarket bbl with better 6 oclock/ramp support, you might even want to reduce the loads .5 gr and work your way back up slowly. Once you start adding powder but see no increase in velocity, seems pointless to proceed without a longer bbl (most likely)....
     
  12. jeffreybehr

    jeffreybehr Silver Member

    765
    3
    Mar 14, 2009
    Phoenix, AZ USA
    Interesting, the use or nonuse of magnum primers.

    Speer uses them only with some powders...HS-7, HS-6, and A9.

    Lyman, VihtaVouri, Accurate, Sierra, Hornady, Nosler, and Hodgdon do NOT use them.

    BTW Jay, Nosler's highest velociy with their 135 was with BlueDot, 12.5 grains for 1459 from a 6" barrel.
     
  13. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm

    19
    0
    Mar 28, 2010
    I just shot 20 rounds of 135g Noslers 12.0g 800x out of my stock barreled G29.


    10 with standard primers

    &

    10 with magnum primers

    This time I used a very light crimp as opposed to the heavy crimp I had been using.

    There were no pressure signs at all with the standard CCI 300 primers.

    But,

    Half of the CCI 350 magnum primer loads were Glock smiled.

    The loads with magnum primers felt MUCH more powerful, but ruined the brass.

    I plan to work up from here on with standard CCI 300 primers. But I think I am right on the limit of what my stock barrel can take.

    What barrel has the best support for nuclear reloads?
     
  14. Kegs

    Kegs Ol 8 fingers ;)

    2,688
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    Oct 26, 2009
    Cold side of conus
    Good thinking. I came to this conclusion recently. I don't know the answer to your question, but I chose a KKM extended barrel, as I am looking to get as much as energy as possible from this compact pistol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  15. MSgt Dotson

    MSgt Dotson

    3,268
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    Sep 30, 2006
    What is the purpose of these loads? (Certainly not hunting, as 135 gr bullets lack penetration except perhaps on a mountain lion; and you already stated they are too much for SD loads....)

    As for the barrel question, my own preference is for Lone Wolf...; however, LW is not offering any extended barrels for the 29....

    Do your reloads drop flush with the barrel hood, BTW?
     
  16. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    3,622
    121
    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    I agree with your sentiment about the "...purpose of these loads." The 135 gr Nosler is probably well beyond the designed velocities with 14.5 gr of 800-X. This is the load that ranks as the all time ME champ in my 10mm auto loads, but... interesting, but not really too relevant.

    They are really kind of a novelty. Loud. Fun to shoot, and fun to shoot at "stuff." They absolutely come apart in anything shot at. I have no doubt that they would be devastating to a BG in a tank top, but probably ineffective in the mountains I frequent. I prefer projectiles with a bit more sturdy construction.

    I have successfully worked up to, and shot a number of, loads at 14.5 gr (cci 300). This was with batches of 800-X manufactured in the past two years. Ave. velocities areclose to 1700 fps :wow:. These are clearly nudging max pressures, but I did not encounter any symptoms of excess pressures. Even at nearly 100 degrees temp with a sunbaked range bag.

    I have a bunch loaded in my safe at charges north of 14 gr. I may end up pulling them because 14+ gr of 800-X intuitively sounds like a charge that is a bit too stout. A tech at Hodgdon had the same opinion - and I trust the opinion of those who do this for a living (I haven't shot any since this conversation). I am an accountant and not a ballistician. What is the point of shooting something that is of dubious value if there is suspicion that they may be unsafe? The perplexing thing is that my load workups were asymptomatic; but the longer these loads sit in my safe, the more they have begun to give me the creeps.

    It would be great if Hodgdon would do a retest and get the load published. Load workups are obviously part of the deal, but running through a pressure gun would improve the sense of "are we in the correct hemisphere?" They did not seem too interested when I spoke to them.
     
  17. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm

    19
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    Mar 28, 2010

    I am just loading these for fun. My hobby is to put holes/dents into steel plates... heheh.

    As for self defense against humans, I prefer something a bit heavier with less recoil and quicker followups, but some would LOVE this round for self defense.

    I am going to the range today to shoot 12.1g to 12.7 with CCI 300 standard primers.
     
  18. JayAlonG2910mm

    JayAlonG2910mm

    19
    0
    Mar 28, 2010
    From my experiance CCI 350 Magnum primers in a stock barrel in this particular load are not ideal if you want to work up to heavier powder charges.
     
  19. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe

    9,395
    1,672
    Jan 26, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Thanks for the info. That was enough to get me to cancel my Midway backorder. I'm sticking with the high retained mass of the 155 grain XTPs now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2010
  20. MalumProhibitum

    MalumProhibitum

    106
    0
    Jul 24, 2006
    Georgia
    It appears that KKM no longer offers an extended barrel for the Glock 29.

    http://www.kkmprecision.com/custom_pistol_barrels/home.php?cat=28

    They still offer a 6 inch for the Glock 20.