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Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by JDK721, Nov 29, 2009.
Depends on the projectile and velocity. Ranger 115 +P+ would be a no, but the USA PP 115 with the same projectile gets 'enough' penetration (about twice that of the +P+ version). The XTP at any velocity will give 12-15" of penetration, performance that is typicaly reserved for 147s. Hydrashoks in any weight will give pretty much the same penetration.
My personal favorite laods for 9mm after almost 20 years of shooting animals upto 150 pounds are 124 +P XTPs loaded by BlackHills. Any of the Ranger series 124 grain or heavier. Goldensabers at any weight or pressure. Gold dots in any weight 124 and above at any pressure. After I shotup the last of my BlackHills 9mm +P I went back to my load I used in the 90s. +P+ 124 Hydrashoks. Great medium penetrating round that always expands. FWIW I carry a G37 with 185 Hydrashoks right now and they work just aswell as the 9mm +P+ 124s.....
Best you can do is look online for some gello tests of penetration on loads you might get or that are available to you. From my experiences Gello gives you a good average of what to expect in flesh. I have noticed that a 9mm will average anywhere from 3" less penetration to 3" more penetration in flesh. If it gets consistant 13" penetration in gello, then expaect 10-16" in flesh. That has been my observation.....
I think you are fine with any of the well constructed brand name jacketed hollowpoints from 115 grains up to 147 grains. So try a few of them and make sure they cycle through your gun and shoot accurately. Then buy a bunch of those.
I've heard good things on Federal +p+ 115gr classic hi-shok, cheaper than dirt has it for $23/50, although their shipping cost is eh.
147 grain JHP. Any of the major brands, including Winchester Personal Protection JHP.
It depends on the pistol.
In my small CCW 9mm I carry 115-grain; in my compact-size 9mm I carry 124-grain. Fit the round to the pistol instead of thinking one-size-fits-all.
There is a guy on this forum that spent several years investigating shootings for his State agency. They used the 115+P+ from Winchester and Federal.
In real flesh and blood shooting it was no slouch.
Like Boris said, depends on the bullet design. I like the 124gr+P when I do carry a 9mm. The only 115grJHP I would trust to get deep penetration would be the DPX/Barnes copper JHP. I like the XTP line, but they do not load to +P levels & I prefer higher vel. impact. So BH would be the way to go for XTP+P loads.
In general, I like medium to heavy weights in 9mm, not 115gr.
If recoil were an issue (say, using a small pistol) then the DPX bullet in 115gr might be worth checking out.
My favorites are 147gr SXT or the new HST loads.
Since we are changing it up, I use 147 grain Hornady Tap FPD ammo. Next time I change out ammo I am going to give the Winchester PDX1 147 grainers a try.
I believe you're referring to isp2605 who is retired from the Illinois State Police.
For those not familiar, both Federal and Winchester designed their 115JHP +P+ specifically for ISP. No matter what other people say, those 115+P+ loads were dropping BGs with excellent results. isp2605 has also in the past reported that he and his agency had also helped investigate numerous other agencies' Officer Involved Shootings where the Winchester 147JHP subsonic OSM (read: FBI load) had failed miserably.
On top of that, those "in the "know" who have had access to actual shooting documentation and investigations have reported just how effective even the earily generation of the 115+P+ loads have performed on humans. Many years ago Mas Ayoob had carte blanche access to all of ISP's OICs. His reporting shows exactly how very effective the +P+ loads were in the real world of "cops & robbers". Mas also has reported on just how erratic the heavy subsonic 147JHPs were (including the Win OSM load, which continues to be sold as their USA brand "Personal Protection" 147JHP). To paraphrase what he reported: Of the shootings investgated involving the 147 subsonics from all manufacturers, I've seen more overpenetrations than not.
Also, take into consideration the fact that the U.S. Border Patrol chose to replace their issued .357Mag 110JHP load and go with Federal's 115+P+ 9BPLE load instead of the FBI's chosen 147 subsonic load. The USBP is involved in more OISs than all the fed agencies combined, let alone a side-by-side comparison with the FBI's OISs.
Those who are "in the know" have reported, and continue to report, on the effectiveness of the 115+P+ loads in real world shootings involving LEA's from all over the country to civilians who keep this load in their pistols for SD. The proof is there.
The 124JHP have been getting a workout, especially the Gold Dot +P with NYPD. Clearly a better load than standard 115FMJ that they have injured so many innocents with OP'ing bullets. Many of the current designs in this weight look very promising (HST, Win Ranger T-Series).
The earily heavy 147 subsonics had an unenviable record as being erratic performers, especially the Win OSM load (which was NEVER designed to be used in pistols in the first place). Current 147s have radical designs to help with expansion at low velocities. These new(er) designs; GDHP, HST, T-Series, are worlds apart from the original 147s from Win, Fed & Rem. If 147 is your choice of weight, then pay the extra money and get the modern designed JHPs . Stay away from the Win USA 147JHP, as that load continues to be the old bullet that was adopted by the FBI and had a history of under expanding and overpenetrating. Use this stuff for practice for your carry load in the same weight.
Current 147's seem to work pretty good. I still prefer lighter weight bullets. Specifically 124 gr +P Gold Dot or HST. The standard velocity Federal 115 gr 9BP has a pretty decent record too.
which ever one shoot's best in your gun.
Great posts Boris and Merkavaboy.
Me, personally, I started out with 115 Gr. +P+ Winchester Ranger.
I also use 127 Gr. +P+ and 124 Gr. +P from Winchester Ranger.
Out of all of those, the 115 Gr. +P+ is the load that I will ALWAYS have.
Of course, the Ranger 124 Gr. NATO is also a round that I carry as well. But the 115 +P+ gets the most use.
Speaking of which, I need to order another 1,000 or so. I'm low right now.
For me, I prefer the 124gr/147gr current offerings...
The 115 +P+ jhp have developed a rock solid reputation. Those that say only the 147 grain will work, are basing their opinions on lab work more than actual results.