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What are the negatives to having a laser?

19K views 391 replies 67 participants last post by  brownie 
#1 · (Edited)
I've been testing a laser and want to know if I've missed anything. Among the general firearm users here there may be some who can share reasons not to have a laser. Negatives that I should look out for. And perhaps things I should test before deciding. I'm almost ready to carry with lasers.

The testing I've been doing is at this link:
http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/my-review-of-crimson-trace-lg405-laser-for-j-frames.1653148/

It includes me comparing between laser and non-laser for:
-- grip feel and on/off control.
-- holster fit.
-- accuracy out to 25 yards.
-- Bright sunlight, dim sunlight, and dusk.
-- Indoor lights on/off.
-- Night time with and without flashlight.
-- Shooting from waist.
-- Quick draw and rapid fire (here are 2 pics from that)



 
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#36 ·
For carrying, I don't see a need for laser.

For home defense, that's a different story. I equip my home defense pistols with laser and flashlight- to be specific Streanlight TLR2 or TLR2G. The G stands for Green. The non-G has red laser.

Why? Because if I were to wake up in the middle of the night and have to grab the gun and go, I might not be able to fumble for my eyeglasses either. The light helps identify the target and I can aim with the laser.

Without eyeglasses, I am not able to use my iron sights or red dot sight.
 
#38 ·
Why? Because if I were to wake up in the middle of the night and have to grab the gun and go, I might not be able to fumble for my eyeglasses either. The light helps identify the target and I can aim with the laser.

Without eyeglasses, I am not able to use my iron sights or red dot sight.
I wear tri-focals, and I agree with you.
You can easily hit what you want, using the laser without your glasses.

 
#37 · (Edited)
"...laser will expose you" is the main reason why I don't use any lasers at all.

They look cool and are a fun toy but don't belong on a SD / HD in my book.
"In darkness, you can see the laser beam and trace it back to its source."
No you can't. If the air is clear, no smoke, etc, you can't see the laser beam.
Laser dot on my shop door 35 yards away. Note, no visible "laser beam".



This is what I was talking about trying to use the laser without knowing what you are doing.

The laser isn't a flashlight.
You DO NOT walk around shining the thing like you are in the movies.

First you identify the target.
As you are pointing your gun to fire, you light the laser.
You DO NOT look for the laser dot.
You look at where you want the bullet to go.

If you can point your gun at all, by the time the gun is pointed at the target the laser dot will be centered in your vision, or just a foot or so off center.

You will automatically pull the Laser dot to the center as you pull the trigger.

If done properly, if the "bad guy" sees the laser at all it will be as the bullet hits him.

In short,
Raise (move) the gun to fire.
Light the laser as you are bringing the gun on target.
Squeeze the trigger as the laser centers.
 
#39 ·
"In darkness, you can see the laser beam and trace it back to its source."


This is what I was talking about trying to use the laser without knowing what you are doing.

The laser isn't a flashlight.
You DO NOT walk around shining the thing like you are in the movies.

First you identify the target.
As you point your gun to fire, you light the laser.
You DO NOT look for the laser dot.
You look at where you want the bullet to go.

If you can point your gun at all, by the time the gun is pointed at the target the laser dot will be centered in your vision, or just a foot or so off center.

You will automatically pull the Laser dot to the center as you pull the trigger.

If done properly, if the "bad guy" sees the laser at all it will be as the bullet hits him.

In short,
Raise (move) the gun to fire.
Light the laser as you are bringing the gun on target.
Squeeze the trigger as the laser centers.


Have you seen the amount of smoke and dust in a room when a round was shot, and hits drywall for example? Unless your first shots incapacitate your one and only intruder right away, that laser will shine like Luke's lightsaber. Then you have to consider turning off your laser again if the perp survived or if there are more to come. More time lost, more distraction.
 
#44 ·
Some good advice, which I'm afraid I don't follow closely enough.

Keep a close eye on your laser, laser/light batteries. Especially on the guns that you might not handle often.

Last night, while watching NETFLIX I happened to look over at the CZ Scorpion EVO3 leaning by the night stand.
It's been something over a month since I shot it last, and that wasn't using the Streamlight TLR-4 laser/light.

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I grabbed it and turned on the laser/light.
Got just a weak laser dot, no light.
Usually the batteries don't just drop off the edge like that.

I felt like a dumbass. Especially since I have a good supply of Red Dot, lasers and laser/light batteries.
I definitely have to check the defense gun batteries more often.
 
#45 ·
I guess the fact it has an on/off switch is what I fall back on. If I want or need it, I have it. If I don't, I don't. My green lasers do leave a bit of a beam in even moderately humid air (more-so than my red lasers), but I don't plan on turning it on like a beacon!

I am also not a sniper hiding in an army of enemies avoiding detection. If I want/need it, it is likely I will be hunkered behind a dresser in my room or somewhere in my house. I do like the idea of having it as an option.

Hey, one option is to run the dot along the ground towards the intruder to get my dog to attack it (kidding... kidding... we all know that for that to work I would need to have a cat!).
 
#48 · (Edited)
I didn't know how it would turn out but I just took a picture of the Red and Green laser from 7 yards.
The sky is overcast but right bright.

Even the Green laser doesn't stand out all that well in bright daylight.
The Red is almost useless.



Where as the Red laser does stand out brightly in the dark.
For some reason many times in the dark on pictures, the Red laser appears as a White centered Red dot

 
#52 ·
The POLICE Light and Laser Survey

"Unlike weapon lights, laser sights are not gaining broader acceptance by law enforcement agencies or individual officers.

Only 16.1% of respondents to our survey reported they use a laser sight on their duty or backup weapons. Of these, nearly 81% use a red laser.

Asked what improvements they would like to see in laser sights, some respondents expressed a general scorn for the tool. One respondent said, "Other than special purpose infrared lasers sights, there is no place for lasers in police work."

Others said they would never use lasers on their duty weapons because of fear they would come to rely on them too much for sight alignment and pick up bad shooting habits."

http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2014/07/the-police-light-and-laser-survey.aspx
 
#53 ·
This was cool.

Years back I mounted a Streamlight TLR-2 laser/light on a Ruger to use for laser/light practice and as a night time critter gun/flashlight.



A few years ago I was teaching three senior ladies to shoot.
When we were quitting on the second day I told them I have something for them to try.
I showed them this hostage target.



Then I showed them the laser operation.
Then moved to about 7 yards.
I gave each one a magazine and told them to empty the magazine in the bad guy's head.

And they did.

We only had time for one more magazine. I gave it to one lady and moved her back a couple steps.
I told her,
Shooting his head using the laser is child's play. Now shoot the gun out of his hand.



I told her,
That is unacceptable, I don't tolerate misses. :)
 
#58 ·
They don't work if your target doesn't have a structure behind it, because you lose sight of the dot. If your target is 20 yards away, and there is nothing behind that target for another 100+ yards, you'll have trouble finding the dot if it's off the target, since it isn't visible other than 100+ yards down range....and that is not where you're focused.

They also don't work well if the target is moving unless there is a close back drop. In order to lead the moving target, you'll have to pull the dot out in front and that may cause the dot to hit an object and become visible 100 yards behind it. Just imagine trying to do some skeet shooting with a laser equipped shotgun.

Basically, they only work indoors, in small rooms.

I had a Helium Neon laser mounted on a Desert Eagle back in 1986. It would roast a pair of 9 volt batteries in 10 minutes.

Tony
 
#59 ·
I think of defensive shootings in the most likely of scenarios: Conversational distances and avoidance if possible. Honestly, I feel sights on a handgun would have such a low probability of being utilized that I feel even those are useless. If I can create enough distance between me and a threat, I'd rather bug out of there. If it's stressful for me to aim, it must be stressful for the threat.
As far as a laser, I'd say the only real usefulness is target shooting. Otherwise, they're an unnecessary cost in terms of money and bulk. I considered getting one about a year ago, but had the thought process I just shared, and have absolutely no desire for one since then. Spend your money how you want, though.
 
#62 ·
Does that same type of reasoning apply to guns that have nicer iron sights to shoot better, or that have a longer barrel for better sight radius?

It seems in general that people justify getting better guns to shoot more accurately with iron sights, but then say a laser is useless.

The one thing I intend to do is shoot the first shot with iron sights, and then if my eye picks up the laser dot I'll use that, if not, I'll keep shooting with the irons. With the test I did at 10 yards, I missed and got 0/5 with just iron sights. But with the laser I got 4/5.

Anyway, this thread is helpful. There are a lot of things for me to consider as people point out the negatives I asked for about lasers :)
 
#63 ·
I bought a gun with a laser on it. Sometimes the cycling of the slide would make it act erratically. Zero for one distance is not necessarily zero across a range of distances. Zero would not necessarily hold. Battery life was poor.

I got rid of it in place of Tritium sights.

I have a light/laser combo that sits on one of my firearms. The zero, again is for a certain distance. The variance of point of impact is dependent upon distance from the target. It doesn't work well beyond 10-15 yards outside of low light. In home, I can see a value for a time when aiming may not be possible under some extenuating circumstances but that would be pretty rare.

At these distances, giving away my position would be moot if I'm face to face. I'm not exactly going to stalk someone or "clear the house." I'd be staying put for the most part, in contact with LEO.

It seems best to be able to use sights or practice point shooting up to a particular distance.

As a training aid, I can see how useful it is with my SIRT TRAINER but not for a majority of self defense applications.
 
#65 ·
I just took my G26 with a Viridian green laser out to my windowless garage and shut off the lights. Can definitely see the beam, but my iphone camera is not sensitive enough to pick it up.

This laser is also bright enough to see the dot on a tree trunk from 100 ft away in broad daylight. It's really bright.

Understand there are many kinds of lasers, and the Viridian green laser is the brightest that's legally available. Completely different than red lasers.

I think seeing the beam us a good thing. Bad guy might crap his pants seeing the beam on his chest.
 
#72 ·
Cops? I don't know. You tell me.

Laser have been around since the 80s. Are you trying to tell me that PDs and LEOs don't use lasers because they haven't "seen" the advantages in 30 years? Bunch of BS.
Most motorcycle cops still don't have proper riding gears (jacket, pants, boots, gloves) and proper helmets. Why is that?

Advantages abound when compared to what the police departments issue their motor officers versus what's on the market.

Cops don't get to carry what they want. They get to carry what their departments approve or issue. Their departments don't necessarily want to spend millions of dollars on gears that don't necessarily look good in the civilians' eyes. Tasers and non-lethals? Sure. Voters love that.

Lasers and red dots? OMG, the militarization of the police!!!
 
#74 · (Edited)
Most motorcycle cops still don't have proper riding gears (jacket, pants, boots, gloves) and proper helmets. Why is that?

Advantages abound when compared to what the police departments issue their motor officers versus what's on the market.

Cops don't get to carry what they want. They get to carry what their departments approve or issue. Their departments don't necessarily want to spend millions of dollars on gears that don't necessarily look good in the civilians' eyes. Tasers and non-lethals? Sure. Voters love that.

Lasers and red dots? OMG, the militarization of the police!!!

The majority of LEOs provide other reason why they don't use laser sights:

http://www.realpolice.net/forums/archive/t-32135.html

And this discussion is 12 years old.

I know a cop who rides in Miami, he once said that he would go back on a car if he had to wear leather.

Have you tried proper gear in 90F, 80+% humidity and standing traffic day in and day out? Chances are that you will pass out because of a heat stroke.

In summer time you will see me ride in t-shirt, shorts, sunglasses and gloves at best. My $2000 leather suit and my Schuberth stay at home, unless I go on the track where air flows through the gear at speeds up to 190 MPH.
 
#73 ·
They are a great asset, once you learn to use it properly. How ever, in my over 25 years as a Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor, I saw the guys our them on their weapons, and forget about the sights, consequently when accessing the target, instead if sighting first, they would be looking around the gun, trying to find the dit in the target, which could be hazardous.
 
#77 ·
They don't work if your target doesn't have a structure behind it, because you lose sight of the dot. If your target is 20 yards away, and there is nothing behind that target for another 100+ yards, you'll have trouble finding the dot if it's off the target, since it isn't visible other than 100+ yards down range....and that is not where you're focused.

They also don't work well if the target is moving unless there is a close back drop. In order to lead the moving target, you'll have to pull the dot out in front and that may cause the dot to hit an object and become visible 100 yards behind it. Just imagine trying to do some skeet shooting with a laser equipped shotgun.

Basically, they only work indoors, in small rooms.

I had a Helium Neon laser mounted on a Desert Eagle back in 1986. It would roast a pair of 9 volt batteries in 10 minutes.

Tony
I don't think the laser users file down their iron sights... I use iron sights when using my red dots AND laser to get on target, as it is easier, especially if the background is cluttered or there is not background. But if I really want to aim... the dots and lasers can help.

The best way for me to explain it is that I have a S&W Bodyguard .380 (don't use any more) that had an integral laser, and a horrible button to activate it. Worthless. But on my G20, SIG 226, XD .45, S&W 340PD, and H&K USP, I have a light/laser combo (like Crimson Trace for the J-frame, and TLR-2G, etc. for rails) that only turns on if I want it on. Easy manipulation. True for the light, true for the laser. If a laser might help, I have it. If not... it is no worse than an unused weapon mounted light, just a little added weight hanging off the front of the gun.

If aiming at a person running parallel to me (which seems less likely to be a situation I could justifiably and legally shoot...), I have iron sights, which is what I use to pick up the target initially anyway. I am not advocating for sweeping use of lasers, but I can see situations where they could be useful.
 
#78 · (Edited)
I have lasers and laser/lights on all my "defense guns" but also have them on a number of "fun" guns.

Like this 22 Mares Leg.
About six days ago I received a "rail" for the gun and installed a Green
Crimson Trace Rail laser (for daylight laser shooting).
Every day I've been playing "Wanted Dear or Alive" shooting from the hip. But it almost gets boring because even when fast firing there are almost No misses.
Repainting the steel targets is getting to be a chore. :)



The second gun is the Ruger SR22. Primarily the gun is for low light/dark laser practice but on overcast days it's fun rapid firing using the laser.




A couple other fun/practice laser equipped guns are S&W revolvers. They aren't really in the "defense lineup" but they are fun and interesting to shoot, especially shooting from the hip. :)









 
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