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Have a Glock barrel question

6K views 75 replies 19 participants last post by  WBoggs 
#1 ·
I just got my new glock 34 in 9MM and I've been told that reloads are really not a problem...BUT, a friend sends me this video...



Which debunks the story that it's the rifling that makes reloads and led dangerous but for the unsupported parts of the chamber. Then I see this video...



which makes me want to get an after market barrel before I have a blown up gun. Any comments?
 
#4 ·
I used a KKM Precision match barrel for my G21-10mm conversion primarily because they are made in America and they are local to me. They also give a LEO discount, if one qualifies. The case is fully supported and the use of lead bullets is allowed. I only shoot hardcast (not considered lead) or jacketed, so that is a non-issue for me.

www.kkmprecision.com
 
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#5 ·
An improperly assembled or overcharged reload that destroys a glock oem barrel is going to do the same to any other brand of barrel. In almost every instance of a damaged gun it can be traced to an improperly loaded round. The oem barrel is no stronger or weaker than any other barrel. I have shot tens of thousands of reloads out of the oem barrel the majority of which had plain cast lead bullets. No problems. Is there a chance I could make a mistake and make a round that is over charged and blow up a gun? Sure but if that happens it won't be because of chamber support rifling type or particular type of gun
 
#6 ·
I have gotten Lone Wolf's in the past due to warning about firing lead in Glock OEM barrels. I prefer gas check lead in my 10mm if I am in four legged country. The rest can have a hydroshock.
 
#9 ·
If you have concerns buy a box of fifty Factory FMJ rounds and go out and run them through the Glock. Then go buy a box of fifty factory lead cast rounds and run them through your Glock. Break down the shooter afterwards and look into the barrel and inspect it for leading and clean if necessary. Then run a box of trusted reloads with lead bullets through the shooter and again inspect for serious leading. My guess you will find little if any leading with the reloads and be on you way. Monitor the lead build up and if affects accuracy where bullets are missing targets by feet you may have a Glock barrel that will not handle lead reloads. My Guess is that this happens in about 2-4% of the Glocks sold.
 
#10 ·
Reloads and lead are two different issues. Reloads can be a problem because Bubba might have made a mistake. So Glock like all other companies I know of warns against them.

Lead though, is a problem for Glock barrels. The most authoritative research I'm aware of was done by Mark Passamaneck and is published in the book "The Glock in Competition." In short, leading in a Glock may start slow but then rapidly increase to the point of failure. Whereas other barrels can level off (about the same amount of lead is removed as is left behind).
 
#12 ·
Well every gi manufacturer warns to not use reloads because some people are stupid and make deadly mistakes. I've reloaded for more than than 40 years and have never had any problem but a failed primer or a very rare squib. I like many who reload don't reload for the biggest bang which is ego reloading; I reload for accuracy. I have several 9MM's reloaded with bullseye but very light to use in competitive steel shooting. The loads are light enough to keep recoil to a minimum without sacrificing enough accuracy to hit the target. Otherwise I uses Alliant Power Pistol which is a NATO equivalent powder that is very much like the powder used in factory loads so from what I'm reading that shouldn't be a problem.

I'm going to again run the loads I'm using through my "Quick Load" software and check pressures and velocity. I'll post the results so I might get comments.
 
#14 ·
The article about lead in Glocks came from the USPSA Front Sight magazine. I can re-post if anyone is interested. But KaBooms are from bullet setback, reloads or new ammo, doesn't matter, nor does it matter if it's aftermarket or OEM barrels. But everyone who shoots USPSA reloads, and I have over 200,000 rounds thru my old 2 pin G17.


 
#15 ·
Hummmm, my Power Pistol loads are a bit hot but the Bullseye loads re good. I'll just have to watch which gun I fire the Power Pistol loads through and tame that load down a bit.
Run any book load you want in your G34. Perhaps the most misunderstood thing on the interweb's is Glock's chamber dimensions and ramp cut. On their straight wall calibers, they do use a more generous chamber and in some calibers (like 45 Auto, a low pressure round) have less case head support than many other manufacturers (because it isn't required).

In their 9mm guns, Glock have as much case head support and chamber dimensions on par or tighter than most production 9mm guns. The tapered 9mm case allow for reliable feed without any help from Glock. Buying an aftermarket barrel so you can mount a comp, get a longer barrel for velocity, etc. makes sense. Getting an aftermarket barrel for your 9mm Glock to get better case head support is throwing money away.

On shooting lead in Glocks, I do it, but I have had one experience where my Glock barrel did lead horribly when side by side a traditional rifled barrel (1911) didn't. It was running plain base lead with 45 Super loads (225gr LTC at roughly 1150fps). All the other lead loads I have ever run in my OEM Glock barrels deliver identical leading results to their traditional rifled cousins.

In any case, pretty much everyone I know that shoot lead runs coated lead, even the guys who cast their own. SNS casting charges $64/1000 for their 125gr LRN (traditional lube) and $68/1000 for their coated version of the same bullet. Hard to figure why anyone would shoot bare lead with that kind of price difference.
 
#20 ·
I agree, with the introduction of coated bullets that leading wise are just like jacketed, the old lead bullets will disapear from my inventory. Have done several tests with many different coated bullets and so far Hi Tech is the most promising but I have another test coming up that might be even better than Hi Tech.

I just got back from the range intending to sight in the 34 and this was my first target of 5 shots. I put away the screwdriver...and TulAmmo was the only factory I had so I have even higher expectations. My concerns about loads have gone away. I did have some hotter loads that showed no signs of pressure issues. I will not reload that load but am comfortable shooting them out.

 
#16 ·
Yup, speed kills, and it leads the shiite out of an OEM barrel. Anything over 1,000 fps and it's happening. HiTek coated bullets do not lead. I switched to Bayous after my blood lead got to 28, shooting 1-2 USPSA matches a week outside. In 4 months it was down to 8, which is about the same as guys running complete metal jackets and shooting the same number of rounds. You still breathe in some lead from the lead styphnate in the primer, short of going non toxic primers, which are hard to come by and don't run %100.

So if you still want to run lead, than at least get a $100 LoneWolf SS barrel, only because it is a breeze to clean up using the old Bullseye shooters lead cocktail, 50% white vinegar and 50% hydrogen peroxide, household strength. 5 minutes of fizz and the lead is gone. Won't touch SS, but use with caution on OEM barrels.

about 225 rounds of Bear Creek


after the cocktail
 
#19 ·
Just so people know, this is a couple of guy's opinion, it shouldn't be taken as fact on face value.

The truth gets back to the reality that nobody has to run bare lead anymore with the coating options, so the whole schmozzle or fact versus opinions on the subject should be moot.
 
#26 ·
Nope, once you have quantified your empirical measurements from a controlled test protocol, it's no longer an opinion. It's called data. There is allot more to the file than what was discussed in the article.
 
#28 ·
I believe he told me the plaintiff decided not to go forward with his suit based on the test results. Mark showed you could easily KaBoom a Glock using lead loads (bullet weight, alloy percentage, shape, powder charge, OAL, hardness, and chrono results were not shared). I think they were surprised it went at 300 rounds. So the take away is both Marc and Taylor don't recommend it based on the experiment. Doesn't mean you can run lead bullets in your OEM Glock, in fact when I went thru GunSite in 92 I ran 2,000 rounds thru a G23. They were 180s made by a local caster, and ran really well. But it is still a PITA to clean lead out of an OEM barrel versus a SS one.
 
#29 ·
I too have shot 10's of thousands of lead through my Glocks, but like any gun, until you have some experience with the load, definitely best to keep an eye on it. Until I had my really bad leading experience with my G21 and that super load, I honestly thought the difference between traditional and polygonal was in people's head, but I had the results in front of me, with proper fit and lube attended to, so with plain base lead it is possible.

I still shoot many thousands of 175gr LSWC's through my G35 each year (a lot less shooting in general these days than In the past), but I am exclusively shooting coated now. Hard to imagine going back to plain lead now.

BTW, where did you buy those green primers? I have never seen them for sale.
 
#30 ·
Well mine are hard cast and the caster being a good friend of mine says there is no threat to use his bullets in Glocks. SO my question to everybody, before I have a $700.00 paperweight and the potential damage to my body. If my reloads work fine in my M&P's am I good in Glock?
This issue has been around as long as Glocks have....both sides have their individual incidents they believe are Gospel...after 30+ years of Glocks, the overwhelming consensus among Glock reloaders is: Keep the bullets hard-cast and keep them within reasonable "target" velocities and you will be fine...
 
#31 ·
I got this not from a frined of mine who is a bullet caster:

The .40 has the highest instance of KBs out there. The high initial peak pressure is the worst on the .40 over any other cartridge. Bill L. who went to the Glock Armorer school was shown that of all the Glocks the .40 produced the most battering of the frame in some spots over any other cartridge. The unsupported chamber which was addressed in later gen Glocks was at fault for the weakening of the brass in that area and the proverbial Glock Smile on brass cases that necessitated special sizing dies. aftermarket barrels offered more support in the chamber area than the early Glocks and I think they offer full chamber support over current Glock barrels. with conventional lands and grooves you can also shoot Cast bullets in the guns.
While many have shot cast bullets in Glocks (mostly 9mm) the polygonal rifling impress the lands into the bullet rather than cutting its way thru the bullet like conventional lands and grooves. I think they get more pressure out of the cartridge this way but I still think an aftermarket barre is the way to go on these. I have a Glock 23 and I had a KB out of the gun and sent it back to Glock. I do plan in getting an aftermarket barrel for it. I now Lone wolf is a name that come up a lot but I think Briley and Jarvis offer better barrels and Jarvis will fit the barrel to the slide for you.
I think some of theses KBs come from fast powders in a high pressure cartridge. Mine happened because I misread the charge weight for the bullet I was using.
 
#33 ·
Did you read the part about the 40 caliber? I'm no longer concerned about my barrel but will keep a close watch on it, I'm sure glad I don't own a 40 though. From what I read in the post, the 40 factory ammo has a high spike of pressure and that's why so many 40 go Kaboom. I know any gun can blow up if an irresponsible reload is fired, you see them all the time.
 
#34 ·
Well mine are hard cast and the caster being a good friend of mine says there is no threat to use his bullets in Glocks. SO my question to everybody, before I have a $700.00 paperweight and the potential damage to my body. If my reloads work fine in my M&P's am I good in Glock?
I load a lot of "Precision Bullets" coated bullets in both my 1911's, M&P's, Glocks and 9mm AR. No problems.
 
#36 ·
I shoot lead bullets in my Glocks but I ALWAYS CLEAN MY GUNS. I clean them without exception after I shoot them and I use a lead removing solvent when I shoot lead and use copper removing solvent to keep copper from building up.

For really difficult lead removal I use those yellow lead removal cloths and cut them into patches and I use a used bore brush as a patch holder and scrub the bore until the lead is gone. that stuff has a strong solvent in it and you have to be careful not to let it come in contact with the surface of a blued gun. It says on the package "Great for stainless steel" and it is, but be careful using it on a bled gun.
 
#38 ·
Understand, but again, a guy's opinion. However informed (and not something someone less informed on the subject should reject out of hand), it is just an opinion.

As far as suing Glock for a barrel failure using lead bullets, not sure about that. I would expect Glock would be on pretty solid ground defending a suit that was about barrel failure shooting a type of bullet Glock says you shouldn't shoot. Just sayin'.
The lawsuit, as I understand it, was accusing Glock of mfg failures (weak barrels). The testing showed that ammo not the quality of the barrels was the issue - either overpressure or excessive leading. He also debunked the unsupported chamber.

When it comes down to what gets put out there for newbies to read, I feel pretty strongly that they should be advised to avoid lead.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 
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#39 · (Edited)
Given the options of even home cast lead bullets being coated these days, it would be hard to argue against that logic.

On the other hand, like so many things with guns and the Internet, the risks are probably greatly overstated. Both from the likelihood of a leading even causing a kaboom and also what happens if it did.

Until the latest coatings became more common recently, I have shot bare lead in all my Glocks (I never warmed up to moly coated, back in the day). As I recounted, I have seen massive and unique to the polygonal barrel leading just once. This was with an overbook load of 45 Super from my G21. The results did get my attention as it was the worst leading I have seen in any barrel, it did go from almost zero to something that resembled lava flow in one rung of my test ladder. All the while, the 1911 next to it had almost none on the exact same load. While you could see light through the bore, it was not round and the hole much smaller than 45 caliber. Yet, with this leading, I didn't get a kaboom, what I got was bullets that flew wildly, far worse than any unstablized load I have seen. This is what caused me to stop and look. Would the next round have kaboomed? Perhaps, but I wasn't getting smiled cases or any other massive sign of over pressure, so I frankly can't say.

It is my strong conviction that when it comes to kabooms, people will find all sorts of extravagent rationalizations to explain away a simple overcharge or serious bullet setback while using a fast pistol powder. Things like "unsupported chambers", 40 caliber "pressure spikes", under charge "powder flashover", "polygonal leading" leading to over pressure kabooms, etc. IME, there is no end to these things being conflated to assuage an otherwise cracked ego. For whatever reason, there has always seemed to be an inordinate percentage of overbearing egos in the gun community, egos that will go to the ends of the earth to avoid admitting they might have screwed up, or didn't know what they were doing.

But hey, I have only been reloading since 1968, so I will freely admit, I haven't seen everything. ;)

In the end, if you want the benefits of shooting lead from your OEM barreled Glock, coated is a terrific option most casters offer at a tiny upcharge. No brainer really.

PS - While I do think coated also may provide some additional protection of the risks of vaporized lead being inhaled, notwithstanding the fact that most will still be getting their fair share of lead from the primer, anyone who has shot coated at an indoor range will tell you, it smells like somebody is painting a car in there before you get through that second quart sized zip lock baggy of rounds. Kind of makes me think that is what cancer smells like... :(
 
#40 ·
I shoot lead bullets in my Glocks but I ALWAYS CLEAN MY GUNS. I clean them without exception after I shoot them and I use a lead removing solvent when I shoot lead and use copper removing solvent to keep copper from building up.

For really difficult lead removal I use those yellow lead removal cloths and cut them into patches and I use a used bore brush as a patch holder and scrub the bore until the lead is gone. that stuff has a strong solvent in it and you have to be careful not to let it come in contact with the surface of a blued gun. It says on the package "Great for stainless steel" and it is, but be careful using it on a bled gun.
Both really good stuff, use them both myself. For really tough leading there's the Lewis Lead Remover tool that you can get at Brownell's.
 
#50 ·
Probably not but I'd still rather be overly cautious than overly aggressive when removing lead from gun barrels. I've heard a lot of horror stories over the years about people chucking up a cleaning rod in a electric drill and going crazy with coarse steel wool or scotchbrite, valve lapping compound, you name it, and not just for removing lead. but old Mil-surp barrels with "black" bores.

With old military rifle barrels, what I found worked best was soaking the barrel
overnight in solvent, then cleaning with a bore brush and patches, then shooting a few rounds through the gun, then cleaning some more, then shooting, then cleaning again.

Those barrels will never appear completely clean because there will always be pitting, but eventually the lands and grooves will become more clearly defined and cleaned up well enough so that the rifles will shoot more accurately.

I had a Russian Mosin 31/59 carbine that had been re-arsenaled and the wood was refinished and the metal was re-blued with the bolt polished bright but the bore was dark and I wondered why they did all that work and didn't replace the barrel. But after I cleaned it and shot it, it was actually pretty accurate and that's probably why they didn't re-barrel it.
Using bullets to clean a barrel is like spreading spackling compound on drywall. There's nothing about a bullet that cleans lead fouling from a barrel, it just smooths it out to look better at best. Using a Lewis Lead Remover is no different than using a bore brush, they're both made out of the same metals.
 
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