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What are the negatives to having a laser?

19K views 391 replies 67 participants last post by  brownie 
#1 · (Edited)
I've been testing a laser and want to know if I've missed anything. Among the general firearm users here there may be some who can share reasons not to have a laser. Negatives that I should look out for. And perhaps things I should test before deciding. I'm almost ready to carry with lasers.

The testing I've been doing is at this link:
http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/my-review-of-crimson-trace-lg405-laser-for-j-frames.1653148/

It includes me comparing between laser and non-laser for:
-- grip feel and on/off control.
-- holster fit.
-- accuracy out to 25 yards.
-- Bright sunlight, dim sunlight, and dusk.
-- Indoor lights on/off.
-- Night time with and without flashlight.
-- Shooting from waist.
-- Quick draw and rapid fire (here are 2 pics from that)



 
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#2 ·
I have a Viridian ECR green laser on a G26. Have the OWB holster that causes the laser to come on instantly when drawing.

Pluses:
much faster on target
no need to line up sights - can shoot from protected position
this laser can be seen in sunlight
could have deterrent effect - bad guy can see pistol is aimed at him
I shoot more accurately
using for dry fire tells you what you are doing

Minuses:
much less holster selection
under some circumstances laser will expose you (but you can shut it off)
short battery life in use - buy several
must be realigned after changing batteries - also get a laser bore sight to do this at home
don't get dependent on it - practice with iron sights, too
about $250 for good one
may not be available for all guns
 
#8 ·
With NO combat experience, but a FIRM believer in Murphy, a laser is one more thing to fail when needed. IMHO, better to train in instinct firing skills which will be useful in the 10-15 ft combat range you are gonna be in with a self defense situation.
 
#13 ·
This is worth me looking at more. Any ideas how I can test this or get a sense of the extent it happens?

The only idea I have is to send my wife figuratively downrange in a carefully constructed dryfire exercise, and let her tell me what she sees :)
In darkness, you can see the laser beam and trace it back to its source. So, if you are stalking someone or hiding, could be a problem. In lit situations, not so much. You can turn it off in about 2 seconds, though, or just not set it to come on at night.

It's another tool. You can use it or not as circumstances dictate.
 
#14 ·
The revolver Crimson Trace on/off can be controled by the middle finger. But I'm also considering a CT for my Glock 26, and I think that on/off is similar to a 1911 grip safety, so would be harder to control. This is in addition to whatever tiny little manual switch is hidden out of the way.

There is also the technique of using the trigger finger to block the laser while that finger is resting alongside the gun. I'll have to have someone tell me how effective that is when I'm trying it.

I'll have to test having someone trying to see the laser beam back to me at night. Thus far, I hadn't noticed a beam unless foggy :)
 
#15 ·
With NO combat experience, but a FIRM believer in Murphy, a laser is one more thing to fail when needed. IMHO, better to train in instinct firing skills which will be useful in the 10-15 ft combat range you are gonna be in with a self defense situation.
That same Murphey might cause a malfunction and you gun blows up in your hand, too?

Another way to look at it is one less thing to go wrong - you instantly know if you are on target.

You can mitigate the uncertainty by practicing with it. If it works 100% of the time in practice, then it is reasonable to believe it will work in an emergency situation, just like the other factors affecting the gun's performance - the gun, ammo, holster, etc.
 
#16 ·
I once had a laser on my carry gun for a year or so and removed it. I do think iron sights are faster. But the idea that a laser is going to give your position away in self defense is nonsense. If you are being mugged they already know where you are. In most home defense situations they either know where I am already or I'm going for a long gun.

Here is a real problem with the laser that is never stated, it useless against moving targets. If you put the laser on a moving target that is not coming straight at you, you are shooting at where they were not where they will be. You can't lead with a laser. The dot has nothing to splash against when you try to lead with one and becomes invisible.
 
#61 ·
If you get used to shooting with a laser, you better only carry guns with lasers, because you are teaching yourself to focus on the target and look for a dot, instead of focusing on the front sight. In an emergency, you are going to focus on the target and look for a dot, no matter what you are carrying. I personally don't consider aiming that important, but the hesitation of looking for a dot that isn't there could be.

I can't think of a defensive situation that requires me to draw my gun where I would be concerned about "giving away my position".
I agree. Other than maybe a bedside gun for burglars, you don't generally get to hide and shoot people outside of cheap action movies. In the real world, you have to be responding to an attack, which means the bad guy knows where you are. I assume you could also choose not to use most lasers.
 
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#18 ·
I've never been in combat, but have trouble learning how a laser is a detriment in anything but a very dark war situation as far as exposing your position.

Sure, it can be traced back to a shooter, but we are talking mostly self defense situations that we would run into. As soon as you fire once, the bad guys (if more than one) are going to know where you are in your home. The only way you lose your advantage is if you get on sight on you don't fire right away.
 
#19 ·
Maybe that can be tested for. I can have my wife set up my gun. Sometimes with the laser off, sometimes with it on. Then I draw and see the result.

Sort of like when leaving a couple cylinders empty, spinning the cylinder, and seeing the result.

Thanks :)
NOW, I will partially invalidate my comment. I have a shotgun with a laser and not having played with it for a while, got it out and found the batteries dead. Yes, checking laser batteries every three months is a great idea - intro me to someone who does it.

Got fresh batteries and thought a laser would be a useful training aid in hip aiming. Turned out, my "instinct hip aim" was about 2 feet high. Using a laser to aid in hip aiming was very useful to me.

Still don't rely on a laser working when needed, however.
 
#21 ·
This is worth me looking at more. Any ideas how I can test this or get a sense of the extent it happens?

The only idea I have is to send my wife figuratively downrange in a carefully constructed dryfire exercise, and let her tell me what she sees :)

Most common scenario is in your house at night. If you hear an intruder and use that laser he will know exactly your location. You know your house best and give away your location and your advantage.


That's a factor sometimes, but in most self defense situations aren't you drawing a weapon because you are already threatened? At home at 2 am might be the exception.
If you are already threatened, turning on a laser and switching to laser aiming adds valuable time, distracts from the target and if it fails or lost zero you add another negative variable to the complex situation.

Keeping everything as simple as possible is mandatory, because in these stressful situations we almost always fall back to the bare minimum sequences. Everything not necessary becomes quickly a hurdle.
 
#22 ·
Back when I had a laser on my EDC, when I got dressed I would check the gun was loaded, the laser worked and it aligned with my iron sights and then holster it. Now I just check its loaded.
 
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#23 ·
I banned lasers from patrol use. During training the guys with lasers became dependent on them. They're constantly looking for the red dot while getting shot. At most of the distances we train at, there's no need for lasers. There's no need for sights either. The longest distance for our qualification is 50 feet. I can point shoot all six required rounds into the target with no issues. In fact I point shoot our entire course.

If you make me shoot you, I'm going to point my gun at you and shoot. I'm not going to look for a laser or align my sights. The human body has a natural tendency to point at stuff pretty much dead on.

And shooting around obstacles or cover with a laser? I don't know. I'm old school. I'm going to be running at you trying to kill you. Not go to cover or retreat. If you make me engage you, I will do my best to finish it. It's why you pay us. To go in harm's way.

At home, I just need a light so I can verify I'm shooting a threat and not my kids.
 
#25 ·
In a SD situation you can point the gun around cover and put one eyeball around cover and hit a target exposing hardly any of your body. All you need is one eyeball on the target, you don't have to have your melon behind the sights. If they shoot at the laser, they are only hitting a hand, my head/body is two feet away.

Used to shoot night IDPA matches in Ohio and they allowed lasers and lights. I would shoot two runs; the laser was always faster.

I am a convert; all of my house guns have lasers. My SD plan is hiding behind a bed with a gun sticking out the end of the bed and one eye peering over the top of the bed, waiting for reinforcements.

wp
 
#27 · (Edited)
I agree with Chowser. What's been on my mind since lasers first went on pistols:

Training scenario:
  1. Threat appears.

  2. Draw pistol.

  3. Energize laser switch.

  4. Point pistol toward target.

  5. Move pistol to attempt to paint target with laser.

  6. See laser dot on target.

  7. Fire.
Murphy’s Law intrudes in real life situation:
  1. Threat appears.

  2. Draw pistol.

  3. Energize laser switch.

  4. Point pistol toward target.

  5. Move pistol to attempt to paint target with laser.

  6. Don’t see laser dot on target. (Unknown at the time, the batteries were dead, the switch failed, etc., whatever the reason, the laser never lit up).

  7. Take extra moment to move pistol left and right, looking for laser dot to paint target.

  8. Threat fires.

  9. I’m dead.
I may have only lost a quarter or half a second (maybe more) looking for a laser dot, but the laser never lit up, so the dot would never appear. The extra time I hesitated searching for the laser dot gave the threat additional time to fire first. He did. He wins, I lose.

An earlier poster said other components in the firearm system may fail, like a primer may misfire. That’s true, but that’s an unavoidable risk in a firearm. A laser is an active device (active devices are more likely to fail than passive devices, such as iron sights), plus, that risk is avoidable.

Yes, I am realistic, and the chances of needing a pistol to defend myself are fantastically small. On top of that, the chances of a laser failing are fantastically small as well, so we're looking at stacking a million-to-one event on top of another million-to-one event. Even so, I chose to practice/train with iron sights only. I have no lasers on my defensive firearms.
 
#28 ·
I have CT laser grips on my EDC, a G26 and a CT laser guard on my G19. I don't rely on them, 80% of my practice time with those guns, I don't use them, and I have other guns that don't even have lasers. I think the advantages outweigh any perceived disadvantages. Others disagree, that's fine.
 
#29 ·
As I've said a number of times on GT before, I've been practicing with lasers (laser/lights) for a good number of years.

I have them on all my defense guns, handguns, rifles and shotgun, and a number of practice guns. I honestly do not know how many lasers (laser/lights) I have.

I shoot with lasers at least three times a week. (The last 4 days, for fun, I've been shooting a Green laser equipped 22 "Mare's Leg)

Problems with using the laser equipped gun.

1st.
People buy them but don't bother to learn their limitations or how to properly use them.

2nd.
The laser is a "light". It's correct use is in low light, even inside, or it's dark.

3rd.
Good ones tend to be a little expensive.

4th.
Lasers and especially laser/lights are bulky.

5th.
The button activated ones, on the grip, can be distracting when you are using iron sights.


But, that all said, no other sighting system comes close to the speed and accuracy of the laser, and better the laser/light, in low light/dark.

And there is a short learning curve with the laser.

A couple years ago, three new lady shooters, after they shot three mags each in daylight using iron sights, I had them shoot three mags in total darkness with a Streamlight TLR-4 laser light.

The drill was to fire three mags at 4 spaced out steel targets, as fast as they could fire and change mags.
I told them I do not tolerate misses. Fire as fast as they can but do not miss.

The ladies had a ball.

I counted ONE miss.

Now these were ladies that had never shot a gun before, but yet they could rapid fire in total darkness, at multiple targets, without missing, but once.

Yeah, I'm a big believer in gun mounted lasers. :)
 
#241 · (Edited)
Agree. I was initially opposed to lasers after twenty plus years Training in LE. But as I aged my eyes deteriorated and a shakiness set in. I can now adapt easier and dry fire with immediate feedback. But with a laser I can once again know I'm up to task.

It took about 500 rounds to get use to laser and a livable reaction time. Now when practice it's only 25% with laser on.
 
#35 ·
I have a few lasers. I like it on my small J-Frame (340PD, only activates if finger over the rubber button is engaged).

I have not heard this from real trainers, but one experience I noted is a negative for green lasers. While I prefer green for visibility (especially with more ambient light, because they are BRIGHT), this is actually a disadvantage for a green laser in my home at night. My hallways are painted in light colors (creams, yellows, white trim, or whatever the lady of the house chooses!), and at night a green laser zaps my night vision. Red is great for retaining night vision (astronomers routinely use red lights, and various cockpits have employed red for that reason). Green laser on a light wall has the same effect a mega-lumen light does. Your ability to see in low light is compromised until your eyes acclimate, which takes a fairly long time.

My house and hallways have dim, LED, motion sensing night-lights, which are adequate to see and identify (and know WHERE someone is moving in the house... granted, it usually just tells me where the dog wandered off to, or gives me an advantage with very young kids playing hide-and-seek!). So the red laser in the house at night may be better than green.

An SRT member I know (Indiana's term for SWAT) said tactical teams can use lasers to keep people pinned down. Having a laser shining around you can have a similar effect to actual live fire, with no risk of stray shots. It allows you to move, while keeping the bad guy head down and stationary. He said he had never used it in a real-world scenario, so not how useful it would be, but it is a potential tactic. I have often considered the value it may have just shining a laser from my room down the stairwell. Bad guy at the bottom would surely think twice before wandering up!
 
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#47 ·
at night a green laser zaps my night vision. Red is great for retaining night vision (astronomers routinely use red lights, and various cockpits have employed red for that reason). Green laser on a light wall has the same effect a mega-lumen light does. Your ability to see in low light is compromised until your eyes acclimate, which takes a fairly long time.
Wow, thanks, I didn't know that. Think I'll stick to red :)
 
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