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Conspiracy - Federal Loads Brass cased Government Contract Ammo as well.

13K views 128 replies 13 participants last post by  Glock 23 Nutter 
#1 · (Edited)
Conspiracy - Federal Loads Brass cased Government Contract Ammo as well.

Not Just Winchester, in their white box, brass cased .40/180 gr. PDX-1 Q4369 ammo.

But Federal as well, with their .40/180 gr. P40HST1B (XM40HC) offering.

Alex Jones needs to look into this.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
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#47 · (Edited)
Well...

Both the Winchester Q4369 and Federal XM40HC are outstanding 180 gr. tactical rounds that can be had for ~ $19/ 50 box, in a caliber that begins with a "4".

:supergrin:

Training ammo is same weight at the best price, usually ~ $12.50/ 50 box delivered.

SGA's price for the purple Winchester (Q4409) is even better than that by a little.




Nutter
 
#48 ·
Of course, these posts are from 2012, so I'm sure they don't apply to the particular ammunition with which you are in love. :hearts: :upeyes:

...
What you got there is probably factory overrun and/or ammo that did not quite meet the specs of the contract. I believe the Q ammo is not up to the same quality standard as the regular Ranger line. Hotpig will probably chime in and clear things up.
...
That particular product is a little off spec compared to the other 180gr versions. That is why it was so cheap. Eventually it will be sold out and gone hopefully fore ever.
The dies are worn and Winchester did not want to make new ones since production was moving south anyway.

I had intended on carrying that product just to offer a low cost SHTF or function test ammo. When the guys that actually make the bullet say do not buy it I will listen to them over a sales rep.

I have been a fan of that PDX1 bullet for ten years longer than it was offered for sale. I actually gave up thinking that it would become a regular production item.
It is a temporary problem. Dies were wore out, they will be replaced. unskilled labor is just learning, eventually they will get it. The Union plant will continue with shot shell, center fire rifle and some center fire pistol to help meet demand until the MS plant can hold its own. Things will get better, except for the Union guys that will be out of work. Doubt things will get better for them.
Enjoy! :wavey: I'm done trying to educate you. Much like all your teachers, I am giving up. :laughing:
 
#51 · (Edited)
#53 ·
Once more, since it's so much fun making you look ridiculous:
What you got there is probably factory overrun and/or ammo that did not quite meet the specs of the contract. I believe the Q ammo is not up to the same quality standard as the regular Ranger line.
That particular product is a little off spec compared to the other 180gr versions. That is why it was so cheap. Eventually it will be sold out and gone hopefully fore ever.
The dies are worn and Winchester did not want to make new ones since production was moving south anyway.
It is a temporary problem. Dies were wore out, they will be replaced. unskilled labor is just learning, eventually they will get it.
Enjoy the slightly out of spec, not quite as good, didn't pass muster, White Box ammunition, and thinking you got one over on Winchester. Very amusing. Truly. It's good enough for you, that's for sure.

Now, don't you look idiotic?

:animlol:
 
#54 · (Edited)
Once more, since it's so much fun making you look ridiculous:








Enjoy the slightly out of spec, not quite as good, didn't pass muster, White Box ammunition, and thinking you got one over on Winchester. Very amusing. Truly. It's good enough for you, that's for sure.

Now, don't you look idiotic?

:animlol:

Your speculative and opinionated internet forum quotes are as impeccable as the FBI Contract you don't have...

Come back when you have something of even less value to share.

Ha!

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





What's not to like?




Nutter
 
#57 ·
It's a decent round for self-defense, that's for sure. I probably wouldn't carry out-of-spec factory seconds for life-saving business, but's that's just me. I didn't used to wear a used $10 motorcycle helmet, either.

:supergrin:
 
#59 ·
These reports from back in 2012 seem to prove that it must have been one hell of a "contract overrun" to have cases of Winchester PDX-1 left all the way into 2017. Either that or all this is true:

What you got there is probably factory overrun and/or ammo that did not quite meet the specs of the contract. I believe the Q ammo is not up to the same quality standard as the regular Ranger line.
That particular product is a little off spec compared to the other 180gr versions. That is why it was so cheap. Eventually it will be sold out and gone hopefully fore ever.
The dies are worn and Winchester did not want to make new ones since production was moving south anyway.
It is a temporary problem. Dies were wore out, they will be replaced. unskilled labor is just learning, eventually they will get it.
So, who are you going to believe, the ammunition salesmen or people with some expertise in the matter? Use White Box if you like, especially if you think you'll never get into a shooting, which is probably the case.

:animlol:
 
#60 · (Edited)
These reports from back in 2012 seem to prove that it must have been one hell of a "contract overrun" to have cases of Winchester PDX-1 left all the way into 2017. Either that or all this is true:









So, who are you going to believe, the ammunition salesmen or people with some expertise in the matter? Use White Box if you like, especially if you think you'll never get into a shooting, which is probably the case.

:animlol:
They prove that you believe one antiquated, speculative, and opinionated internet forum poster.

Winchester Contract ammo is, in fact, designated "Q".

And the empirical data proves the ammunition's quality.

Come back when you have something of even less value to share.

Ha!

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





What's not to like?




Nutter
 
#62 ·
Out of spec seconds packaged and sold to rubes as magical "contract overruns" from various three-letter agencies.

What's not to like?

:supergrin:
 
#65 · (Edited)
Let's test that theory, shall we?

Winchester Factory seconds are marketed as "Z" ammo.

This test seems to suggest that the brass cased "Government Contract" offerings perform as well, or better, than their nickel plated commercial brethren... at a substantially reduced cost.

luckygunner.com - 40 S&W - 180 Grain JHP - Winchester Bonded (Q4369)
($0.48/rd.)

- Ballistic Gel Test

Bullet Velocity (fps)(49 fps spread)

901 930 933 937 950




luckygunner.com - 40 S&W - 180 Grain JHP - Winchester Supreme Elite (PDX-1)
($1.30/rd.)

- Ballistic Gel Test

Bullet Velocity (fps)(69 fps spread)

956 981 992 1020 1025




The Q4369 Government Contract ammo was more consistent, expanded bigger, and penetrated deeper than the shiny commercial offerings.


...and it's waterproof.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
#66 ·
Out of spec ammo. In White Boxes. For cheap.

The first references to FBI or government agency "contract overruns" for this very ammunition are back in 2010. Do a search. It's not hard. There were, throughout the years, dire warnings to buy whatever you can since it won't be made any more. The same was said, year after year after year. Hmmmm. Fast forward to 2017 and here we are, with more "contract overrun" ammunition for sale.

Rubes.

:supergrin:
 
#67 · (Edited)
Out of spec ammo. In White Boxes. For cheap.

The first references to FBI or government agency "contract overruns" for this very ammunition are back in 2010. Do a search. It's not hard. There were, throughout the years, dire warnings to buy whatever you can since it won't be made any more. The same was said, year after year after year. Hmmmm. Fast forward to 2017 and here we are, with more "contract overrun" ammunition for sale.

Rubes.

:supergrin:
In response to your underwhelming and unsubstantiated opinion...?

We call it Empirical Data.

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





Enjoy your overpriced shiny things.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
#68 ·
Out of spec ammo. In White Boxes. For cheap.

The first references to FBI or government agency "contract overruns" for this very ammunition are back in 2010. Do a search. It's not hard. There were, throughout the years, dire warnings to buy whatever you can since it won't be made any more. The same was said, year after year after year. Hmmmm. Fast forward to 2017 and here we are, with more "contract overrun" ammunition for sale.

Enjoy your cheap, out of spec ammunition, and believe whatever ammo salesmen tell you.

Rubes.

:supergrin:
 
#69 ·
In response to your underwhelming and unsubstantiated opinion...?

We call it Empirical Data.

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





Enjoy your overpriced shiny things.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
#70 ·
In response to your repetitive, illogical nonsense:

The first references to FBI or government agency "contract overruns" for this very ammunition are back in 2010. Do a search. It's not hard. There were, throughout the years, dire warnings to buy whatever you can since it won't be made any more. The same was said, year after year after year. Hmmmm. Fast forward to 2017 and here we are, with more "contract overrun" ammunition for sale.

Cheap, out of spec ammo, in White Boxes.

Enjoy your cheap, out of spec ammunition, and believe whatever ammo salesmen tell you.

Rubes.

:supergrin:
 
#71 · (Edited)
In response to your repetitive, illogical nonsense:

The first references to FBI or government agency "contract overruns" for this very ammunition are back in 2010. Do a search. It's not hard. There were, throughout the years, dire warnings to buy whatever you can since it won't be made any more. The same was said, year after year after year. Hmmmm. Fast forward to 2017 and here we are, with more "contract overrun" ammunition for sale.

Cheap, out of spec ammo, in White Boxes.

Enjoy your cheap, out of spec ammunition, and believe whatever ammo salesmen tell you.

Rubes.

:supergrin:

You've contributed so little.

Thanks, and be sure to come back when you have even less to share.

In response to your underwhelming and unsubstantiated opinion...?

We call it Empirical Data.

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





Enjoy your overpriced shiny things.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
#72 ·
Winchester FBI contract overrun, circa 2009


Winchester FBI contract overrun, circa 2011

And this


Winchester FBI contract overrun, circa 2013


And this
40 S&W bonded 180 Winchester Overrun


But, of course, we are expected to believe the nonsense propagated by ammunition salesmen and internet rubes who assure us that Winchester is producing too much ammunition, year after year after year.

Well, either that or realize that Winchester has found a gullible market for its out-of-spec ammunition that it cannot sell to government agencies or the general public for normal prices. Cheap ammo, sold in white boxes. Simple economics. Or, believe you are getting something for nothing. :animlol:

If you still want to believe in this ammunition, don't watch this video
 
#73 · (Edited)
Winchester FBI contract overrun, circa 2009


Winchester FBI contract overrun, circa 2011

And this

Winchester FBI contract overrun, circa 2013

And this
40 S&W bonded 180 Winchester Overrun


But, of course, we are expected to believe the nonsense propagated by ammunition salesmen and internet rubes who assure us that Winchester is producing too much ammunition, year after year after year.

Well, either that or realize that Winchester has found a gullible market for its out-of-spec ammunition that it cannot sell to government agencies or the general public for normal prices. Cheap ammo, sold in white boxes. Simple economics. Or, believe you are getting something for nothing. :animlol:

If you still want to believe in this ammunition, don't watch this video

Thanks. When you stand on your head and offer your same underwhelming and unsubstantiated opinion?

...it is so much more underwhelming and unsubstantiated.

Do you have ANY actual information on this matter?

ICE has been using the brass cased .40 180 gr. HST (XM40HC).

Q4384 brass cased Government Contract .40 165 gr. Winchester Ranger Bonded ammo.
(both neck and primer sealed)

Add to this the citation by the Manufacture w/r/t the white box 180 gr. offering.


And, we call this following information Empirical Data, to validate the performance of the ammo. Add to it the previously posted CTD Performance evaluations.

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





Enjoy your overpriced shiny things.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
#74 ·
This thread is the most fertile on the internet, thanks to all the manure you're spreading.

Hey, everybody, it's 2009 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2010 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2011 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2012 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2013 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2014 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2015 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2016 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, now it's 2017 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

:crazy:

Enjoy your out-of-spec white box ammo. Now, go back to looking for the FBI contract that switched from nickel to brass cases.

Rubes. :laughing:
 
#75 ·
This thread is the most fertile on the internet, thanks to all the manure you're spreading.

Hey, everybody, it's 2009 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2010 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2011 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2012 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2013 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2014 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2015 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, it's 2016 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

Hey, everybody, now it's 2017 and Winchester made too much FBI contract ammo. We've got it at a great price. It's exactly the same, just in different boxes. Once this is gone, they'll be no more. BUYBUYBUY!!!

:crazy:

Enjoy your out-of-spec white box ammo. Now, go back to looking for the FBI contract that switched from nickel to brass cases.

Rubes. :laughing:

ANY actual relevant information on this topic, any at all, would be appreciated.

Did you know that the Winchester Government Contract over-run ammo (Q4369) has Date-Stamped case heads with the year of manufacture?

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





Enjoy your overpriced shiny things.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
#76 ·
Hey, look, we just found some MORE contract overrun ammunition, over there in the corner. Let's sell it in white boxes to shrewd shooters. :animlol:

Enjoy your out-of-spec white box ammo.
 
#77 ·
Hey, look, we just found some MORE contract overrun ammunition, over there in the corner. Let's sell it in white boxes to shrewd shooters. :animlol:

Enjoy your out-of-spec white box ammo.

ANY actual relevant information on this topic, any at all, would be appreciated.

Did you know that the Winchester Government Contract over-run ammo (Q4369) has Date-Stamped case heads with the year of manufacture?

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





Enjoy your overpriced shiny things.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
#78 ·
Hey, look, we found another case of FBI contract overrun ammunition. Better buy it now, because once this is gone... :animlol:

Rubes.

Enjoy your out-of-spec white box ammo.

:supergrin:
 
#79 ·
Please, just post that FBI contract you claim exists. You made the claim that the FBI contracted for Winchester to make nickel plated cases, then reversed course and asked for brass. You claimed the FBI demanded that Winchester use a special bullet sealant that supposedly won't work on nickel. You claimed that Winchester is still finding nickel cases made for the FBI contract. So, clear it up. Show us the contract. You made the claims. Back them up.

:popcorn:
 
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