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First Squib

3K views 49 replies 21 participants last post by  southern cross 
#1 ·
After 17 years of competition shooting I finally had a squib. My competition gun has 35,000+ rounds through it and has had very infrequent malfunctions over the years due to ammo. 18 or so months ago I switched to a new brand and started getting light strikes. I'd never had that problem with any ammo before, but I purchased a bunch of the ammo, so I modified the gun to hit harder. It mostly solved the issue, but I still contacted the manufacturer to discuss it. They requested that I send a sample of rounds that didn't fire, some that fired on the 2nd hit, and some that went off normally. I collected the rounds over the next few matches as the failures occurred and sent them in. A few weeks later I got 2 boxes of ammo in the mail with no explanation. The light strikes were much less common so I just rolled with it and use it in our weekly indoor matches. Tonight, 5 rounds into a stage, the report sounded like an old cork pop gun and the gun didn't cycle at all. Cleared it and checked to see a squib. After so many years of shooting many brands of factory ammo, I'm just disappointed in this company. I had basically just accepted that the primers were a little hard or maybe inconsistently seated, but this makes me doubt the safety a little more.
Just a little bit of a rant. I think I'll leave the company's name out of it unless you guys care.
 
#3 ·
The fact that you knew enough to check the bore makes such a possibility just an inconvenience. I always wince when I see someone teaching tap, rack, shoot drills... I mean, in a real gunfight, if you follow a stuck bullet with a good round, all the resultant kaboom does is refine your options in a little more narrow terms. Standing at the range, it is a really unpleasant surprise.

You would be shocked at the number of people who will insist their action cycled, that they didn't rack the slide. When you explain there would be no net recoil to actuate the slide, they just dig in their heels and insist it did cycle.
 
#14 ·
Squibs that result in a bullet stuck far enough up into the barrel to allow another round to be chambered are very rare. Primer only squibs (no powder) generally will not thrust the bullet far enough into the barrel to allow another round to be chambered usually sticking just into the throat (or gap in a revolver, jamming the action).

The reason a stuck bullet squib are so rare is it takes a partial charge with a very delicate balance of just enough powder to thrust it part way into the barrel (past the throat), but not enough powder to get the bullet out the end. It does happen, but far less than no powder jam ups.

Most production and higher volume reloads are done on progressive presses that drop a fixed amount of powder per cycle. Either you get a full drop or no powder, either one will not result in a round being chambered behind the last round shot (action jammed about 99.9% of the time on a no powder squib). For a production or higher volume reloader setup, there are powder dies and audible alarms that go off when a round doesn't have the exact amount of powder it is prescribed. Pretty much any 5 station progressive can be equipped with a powder cop die that informs the reloader when the proper amount of powder is deployed. It is like a $100 bill item.

As far as lecturing people about how careful a reloader they are or how careless reloaders are or just about anything else about guns, that just seems to be a common human nature thing.
 
#18 ·
Squibs that result in a bullet stuck far enough up into the barrel to allow another round to be chambered are very rare .....
From reading your post several times it appears your experience is with revolvers. You reference the squib locking-up the revolver.

In my lifetime I have experienced 2 squibbs. Both in rifles, both from my reduced loads and both lodged mid barrel.

No matter what type of firearm you are shooting, always always check the barrel for obstructions after any shots that don't look right, feel right or sound right.
 
#8 ·
I started reloading a few years ago. My daughter loves making ammo as well. We are very very careful and inspect ever case with powder in it with a flashlight to insure its correct. Anyone can still make an error. It's just how it is, however I am going to make it as remote a possibility as I can.

The only squib I have had I was lucky enough to catch. The gun did not cycle and it was difficult to open the action. I had no good way to get the bullet out carefully so my day was done. The company was American ammo of Miami 9mm. Supposedly new production ammo.

My first response was to rack and turn the gun sideways. Glad I was slow on that maneuver.

In many cases the gun will in fact blow out the next bullet and the next powdered round. At least that's what I have heard. I have never seen it myself.
 
#16 ·
Bought a box of some Winchester 185 gr, hpt's in .45acp once. They were some weird silvery looking bullets in a brass case. Years ago by the way. Never cycled well in my old Colt 1911. They sat for a few years and one day I tried them again. Same thing, every 3rd or 4th would jamb. But one of them, when fired, went "pfffftt"and I swear I could see the bullet leave the barrel and drop to the ground in about 10'. I can't remember if it cycled but I buried the rest of the ammo in a deep hole in the woods.
 
#17 ·
OP, you've been shooting the games for 17 years and don't reload??? Squibs happen, that's why you have a light on your press to make sure their is some powder in there. And pulling the trigger on a squib will not KaBoom the gun, nor will it push it out, but it will bulge the shiite out of the barrel. We have several at the academy like that....


 
#19 ·
Only squib I have ever seen was in an Uzi. Friend had a OOBD and the bullet was sticking out of the front of the barrel. **** you not. Picture for proofz
Leg Floor Hardwood Handrail
 
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#20 ·
Years ago, a group of us were shooting. One of my friends had a reloading set for the .38 wheelgun he was shooting. He was meticulous in his reloads, but errors occur. Suddenly he held up his hand, for his revolver had jammed. Squib load had spit the bullet between the cylinder and barrel, rendering the revolver, wonderfully inoperative.

Not sure what would have happened had the bullet lodged in the barrel. Nothing good....
 
#21 ·
From reading your post several times it appears your experience is with revolvers. You reference the squib locking-up the revolver.

In my lifetime I have experienced 2 squibbs. Both in rifles, both from my reduced loads and both lodged mid barrel.

No matter what type of firearm you are shooting, always always check the barrel for obstructions after any shots that don't look right, feel right or sound right.
While the only no powder squibs I have personally experienced was with revolvers, both jammed the action as the bullet was pushed just past the cylinder throat into the gap, I have witnessed quite a few no powder squibs in semi's, the bullet always has lodged in the throat and further chambering impossible.

I did have a partial charge squib in a Glock 35, with a jacketed bullet that lodged a few inches into the barrel, one good reason to shoot lead, they are much easier to pound out than jacketed which can be an absolute ***** to pound out. Never use soft wood dowels for this chore. ;)

No squibs of any kind with long guns, knock on wood.

Totally agree on checking the bore anytime there is doubt. In matches, that is why RO get halo's, saving an otherwise fixated competitor's bacon, "STOP!"
 
#22 ·
Years ago, a group of us were shooting. One of my friends had a reloading set for the .38 wheelgun he was shooting. He was meticulous in his reloads, but errors occur. Suddenly he held up his hand, for his revolver had jammed. Squib load had spit the bullet between the cylinder and barrel, rendering the revolver, wonderfully inoperative.

Not sure what would have happened had the bullet lodged in the barrel. Nothing good....
I've seen thst several times. It's kind of a lucky break that the trigger couldn't be pulled again. I've also seen the pieces of a 44 that did cycle again.
 
#23 ·
OP, you've been shooting the games for 17 years and don't reload??? Squibs happen, that's why you have a light on your press to make sure their is some powder in there. And pulling the trigger on a squib will not KaBoom the gun, nor will it push it out, but it will bulge the shiite out of the barrel. We have several at the academy like that....


Don't have room for a proper setup and no interest in single stage shenanigans.
 
#31 ·
Squibs that result in a bullet stuck far enough up into the barrel to allow another round to be chambered are very rare. Primer only squibs (no powder) generally will not thrust the bullet far enough into the barrel to allow another round to be chambered usually sticking just into the throat (or gap in a revolver, jamming the action).

The reason a stuck bullet squib are so rare is it takes a partial charge with a very delicate balance of just enough powder to thrust it part way into the barrel (past the throat), but not enough powder to get the bullet out the end. It does happen, but far less than no powder jam ups.

Most production and higher volume reloads are done on progressive presses that drop a fixed amount of powder per cycle. Either you get a full drop or no powder, either one will not result in a round being chambered behind the last round shot (action jammed about 99.9% of the time on a no powder squib). For a production or higher volume reloader setup, there are powder dies and audible alarms that go off when a round doesn't have the exact amount of powder it is prescribed. Pretty much any 5 station progressive can be equipped with a powder cop die that informs the reloader when the proper amount of powder is deployed. It is like a $100 bill item.

As far as lecturing people about how careful a reloader they are or how careless reloaders are or just about anything else about guns, that just seems to be a common human nature thing.
Good information, thanks for posting. I will add to this, and again not meaning to tell anyone their business, just speaking from personal experience:

When I first started loading on my 1050, I was having some minor problems with powder jumping out of cases as the shellplate indexed. All my experience up to then was with a 550.

This is fast powder production ammo, so charges are small and a little powder loss can create a pretty high variation in velocity. I had noticed this on the chrony, and was pretty well aware of what was going on.

Doing some practice runs one day, I had a very light round go off. I was absolutely convinced it was a squib. Mechanical feel of the gun and lifting of sights were completely different from normal. Even shooting the fastest splits in a match, it would have stopped me dead in my tracks. I checked the gun, and it was fine. Checked the target, and the light round printed right where the sights had been.

I've experimented with very light charges in production ammo. My experience has been that if there's powder in the case, the bullet is going to exit the barrel. And light charges are quite visually evident simply from looking in the cases before a bullet is seated.

Even using my 1050 with a bullet feeder, it is not a problem to look for a charge in each case. You have to look at the case anyway, either to physically place a bullet on it or to observe that the feeder has placed it correctly. That takes less time in the long run than fixing mis-seated bullets at the next station. I can easily load 100 rounds in 3 minutes and look at the powder in each case.

So I think it takes some talent to end up with 2 bullets in the barrel. And yes, I've seen it happen a few times, and I've also stopped a few shooters on false alarms while RO'ing.
 
#32 ·
While it is dependent on the powder being used (and the gun its is being shot out of), it is amazing how little powder it takes, especially in a small case handgun caliber, to get the bullet to exit. The stuck bullet I had, I reckoned I had about a half grain of powder in the case as I had pulled the rest of that batch and found a number in that range. Mine was caused by a powder hopper that closed by turning. I had bumped it along the way (and obviously not looking close enough before setting the bullet) and it had closed not quite all the way. Needless to say, that lesson was a very good one. I learned about that screw on the powder hopper that locked it in place and about the value of an LED light focused down in the case so you can actually see the powder before you set the bullet. :)
 
#33 ·
From the description, I'm guessing this was some small time commercial [re]loader, and not what most would consider "Factory" ammo (i.e. Win, Fed, S&B, etc.). It sounds like this loader has multiple QC issues, and it's time to move on to another supplier or start rolling your own. Rounds not going off til second strike usually mean the primer was not fully seated. Click/Pfft instead of bang resulting in a stuck bullet could be no powder or contaminated powder failing to burn.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Ya, I have a $20 Home Depot LED on a flex stem. I just point it right into the case. Not a problem at all.

If you can call hits on 0.25 splits, watching the powder drops is easy. And if you can call hits on 0.20 splits with irons, watching the powder is downright boring.

Each time the press cycles, I check the first station for a pebble in the case, the drop and the bullet from the feeder. Just like moving your vision from sight picture to Burkett to sight picture on a reload... Takes less time to move the vision than it does to do the mechanics. Vision it the throttle. :)

ETA, loading is actually a pretty good vision exercise for shooting. It's probably more helpful to work on wider transitions and doing close transitions way faster than you could load, but loading and shooting go well together that way.
 
#35 ·
Ya, I have a $20 Home Depot LED on a flex stem. I just point it right into the case. Not a problem at all.

If you can call hits on 0.25 splits, watching the powder drops is easy. And if you can call hits on 0.20 splits with irons, watching the powder is downright boring.

Each time the press cycles, I check the first station for a pebble in the case, the drop and the bullet from the feeder. Just like moving your vision from sight picture to Burkett to sight picture on a reload... Takes less time to move the vision than it does to do the mechanics. Vision it the throttle. :)
I think where people get into trouble is attention span. People have wild differences in attention spans. I think that is why some people can ace an instrument training regimen in flying and another wash out miserably.

I too have a goose neck LED lamp I bought at IKEA, $10, years ago. Works like a charm.
 
#38 ·
Squibs are rare but they do happen. No permanent damage done in your case.

The only squib I have ever had was when shooting a friend's 45-70 lever action with his reloads. He used a small amount of smokeless powder in the very large case and some sort of inert filler in an attempt to keep the powder next to the primer. I pulled the trigger and heard a click with absolutely no recoil. Enough of the powder went off to drive the bullet half way up the barrel. So much powder and filler was present when I opened the action it would have taken a special kind of stupid to not realize something was wrong.
 
#39 ·
Sounds like your 45-70 friend has no clue. All the loads are for smokeless powder on lever guns, but usually it's around 60 grains for 300 gr bullets, actual case capacity is 75 grains. You don't use fillers in modern rifles. And hopefully it was not a pistol powder because that's a sure way to blow up a rifle.
 
#42 ·
There are plenty of reduced velocity rifle loads that use Red Dot (which is primarily a shotgun/handgun powder). It's so fluffy, I don't know, assuming there are 45/70 loads with it, if any filler would even be necessary.
 
#40 ·
That was 30 years ago and he liked to shoot light loads with bullets he cast himself. He was a lot older than the rest of us and had been reloading for many years so he might have been using a load he worked up for a trap door Springfield 50 years ago. He might not have had a clue how to load for a good lever gun (some sort of Browning reproduction) but he knew better than to load 60 grains of smokeless powder into trap door.

But it was more likely a cost thing. He was part of that small subset of reloaders who will go to great lengths to save a few cents per round, using a less than ideal type of powder with filler instead of buying a can of the right type would have been totally in character. When shooting a 45-70 he would not leave the range until he could account for every single one of his fired cases and as the rest of us drove off he was walking down range to dig fired bullets out of the dirt so he could melt them down and reuse the lead. I sometimes considered slipping one of his empty 45-70 cases into my pocket just to see how long he would look for it but always decided that would have been too cruel. The endless search for brass seemed a little annoying at the time but I miss shooting with him now.
 
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