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40 S&W and 180 grain bullets

16K views 74 replies 38 participants last post by  Deputydave 
#1 ·
I read some where that the 180 gr. bullet weight is hard on the pistol and causes wear faster and that 165 gr. bullets are best to use.Now I am afraid to shoot the case of 180's I bought.The pistol I have is an M&P 40c. What do you think about all that?
 
#3 ·
Not a real thing. Most folks gravitate to the 180's because they are heavy round for caliber types.
At one time the 180 grain was a compressed or near compressed round in the .40. Some said there could be problems with that, but I'm not aware of any actual ones.
Newer powders have had the chance to correct this "problem" if it ever was.
Either way it is urban legend and not too much to back it up.
Cheers
 
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#75 ·
Same. 180 is all I'd consider for the .40 S&W. I want the deep penetration and the 180 has the cross-sectional density to be a reliable performer in regards to penetration. The WWB 180JHP does a good job in the tests I've seen. As good as an premium round I've seen.
 
#8 ·
Just beware the White Box ammunition. There's a reason it's on sale.

...
What you got there is probably factory overrun and/or ammo that did not quite meet the specs of the contract. I believe the Q ammo is not up to the same quality standard as the regular Ranger line. Hotpig will probably chime in and clear things up.
...
That particular product is a little off spec compared to the other 180gr versions. That is why it was so cheap. Eventually it will be sold out and gone hopefully fore ever.
The dies are worn and Winchester did not want to make new ones since production was moving south anyway.

I had intended on carrying that product just to offer a low cost SHTF or function test ammo. When the guys that actually make the bullet say do not buy it I will listen to them over a sales rep.

I have been a fan of that PDX1 bullet for ten years longer than it was offered for sale. I actually gave up thinking that it would become a regular production item.
It is a temporary problem. Dies were wore out, they will be replaced. unskilled labor is just learning, eventually they will get it. The Union plant will continue with shot shell, center fire rifle and some center fire pistol to help meet demand until the MS plant can hold its own. Things will get better, except for the Union guys that will be out of work. Doubt things will get better for them.
 
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#11 ·
Not "problems" per se, just realize there might be a real difference between Ranger or Defender and what you find in the bargain bin. You might never notice, but then again...

 
#13 ·
Actually likely the opposite. The various high vel 155gr loads probably beat the guy up more than slower 180gr.
 
#14 ·
Absolutely true. That stuff will blow up a Glock and destroy your chances of having children. Send your Glocks to me and I'll save you.

;)


I literally don't know how many 175/180 gr rounds have been shot out of mine - since '91.
 
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#18 ·
I've carried everything from 135 grain through 155 and 165 grain, up to 180 grain. I never really worried too much about it, from the medium weight up. The 135 grain are probably too light to penetrate far enough for me, but I wouldn't worry about the 180 grain loads at all. They closely mimic the .45 ACP and nearly weigh as much as the lightest common carry loads of that venerable caliber.
 
#19 ·
I like 180 gr. in 40 S&W
In this example, we have a 165 gr. load that recoils less than a 180, another that recoils more.
Based on power factor (PF) calculation.
Glock 23:
Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. @ 1,048 fps / 402# KE / PF 173
Federal HST 180 gr. @ 1003 fps / 402# KE / PF 181
Winchester Ranger T 165 @ 1,146 fps / 481# KE / PF 189
 
#20 ·
I like 180 gr. in 40 S&W
In this example, we have a 165 gr. load that recoils less than a 180, another that recoils more.
Based on power factor (PF) calculation.
Glock 23:
Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. @ 1,048 fps / 402# KE / PF 173
Federal HST 180 gr. @ 1003 fps / 402# KE / PF 181
Winchester Ranger T 165 @ 1,146 fps / 481# KE / PF 189
Power factor alone does not tell the entire recoil story. High velocity torque comes into play. Why many in competition prefer hvy for caliber bullets making the sme PF, less recoil.
 
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#24 ·
I agree. Is there a way to calculate that (torque)?
Here is an example, these two have near same PF, but the 155 gr. seems more "snappy".
I thought maybe the 155 had more blast influencing my impression of recoil, but that isn't it.
Glock 20SF
Hornady 155 XTP @ 1,335 fps / 614# KE / PF 207
Handload 180 gr. Gold Dot @ 1,146 fps / 525# KE / PF 206

Recoil impulse of the 180 gr. load (preferred) seems less sharp/snappy. :dunno:
 
#43 ·
Good point, except that recoil energy can actually be calculated and I'd be curious to know the actual figures if anybody has them. But as far as recoil, are we worried about the recoil wearing out the gun, or wearing out the shooter (or affecting controllability)? With a Glock 23, I don't see that it's an issue either way. I honestly don't notice any difference in recoil between a G23 and A G19. I know there's more foot pounds of energy involved, for both terminal ballistics and foot/lbs of recoil energy, But I'd like to know how many G23's that were "Range Guns" (rentals) that have actually worn out, and how many rounds that it took for that to happen.

Personally, I don't think I can ever afford enough ammo to wear out any of the guns I own especially when I have so many hungry mouths to feed.
 
#21 ·
Considering the 180gr is the weight the .40 S&W was designed around, I wouldn't worry about it. Add to that the billions of similar spec'd rounds fired through similar firearms, with no issues, and you should sleep just fine, after shooting the 180gr.
 
#23 ·
180s and .40S&W go together like rum and orange juice! :drink:

180s are the key to enjoyable .40S&W shooting for me. They're typically easier on the shooter and easier on the pistol than the lighter bullet weights. They exhibit more of a comfortable "push", rather than the harsher "snap" that the lighter bullet weights are known for.

Buy 180s and enjoy the heck out of them. Nothing to worry about!

And, after a good day at the range, enjoy some Meyers Rum and OJ to round out the day! :cheers:
 
#25 · (Edited)
I agree. Is there a way to calculate that (torque)?
Here is an example, these two have near same PF, but the 155 gr. seems more "snappy".
I thought maybe the 155 had more blast influencing my impression of recoil, but that isn't it.
Glock 20SF
Hornady 155 XTP @ 1,335 fps / 614# KE / PF 207
Handload 180 gr. Gold Dot @ 1,146 fps / 525# KE / PF 206

Recoil impulse of the 180 gr. load (preferred) seems less sharp/snappy. :dunno:
Two things to consider here: One factor is that to get the lighter bullet up to enough speed to match the power factor of the heavier bullet takes more powder. There is a larger charge under the lighter bullet. That, and the more rapid excelleration (and higher velocity) with the larger amount of powder with the faster/lighter bullet is the "snap" that you're feeling. I'm not sure how to quantify that.
 
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#26 ·
I would certainly not hesitate to carry something in 180 grain, as long as it wasn't made by Winchester. I've seen far too many failures to feed and failures to fire with Winchester ammunition to trust it. YMMV.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I would certainly not hesitate to carry something in 180 grain, as long as it wasn't made by Winchester. I've seen far too many internet forum posts, from the same guy, about Winchester ammunition to trust it. YMMV.
There, FIFY/

:supergrin:

$0.36/rd ($18/50 box) for Government Contract ammo





What's not to like?




Nutter
 
#27 ·
I agree. Is there a way to calculate that (torque)?
Here is an example, these two have near same PF, but the 155 gr. seems more "snappy".
I thought maybe the 155 had more blast influencing my impression of recoil, but that isn't it.
Glock 20SF
Hornady 155 XTP @ 1,335 fps / 614# KE / PF 207
Handload 180 gr. Gold Dot @ 1,146 fps / 525# KE / PF 206

Recoil impulse of the 180 gr. load (preferred) seems less sharp/snappy. :dunno:
Yeah, RPM would be vel x twist rate or something, but I hate math. I just know that a bullet going 1200fps has a lot higher RPM than a bullet going 825fps.
 
#32 ·
I too like heavier slugs for a given caliber. Never liked the 155/165 gain stuff.

I've been shooting 180 grain out of a S&W 4054 for 25 years now. It's still not wore-out.
 
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