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40 S&W and 180 grain bullets

16K views 74 replies 38 participants last post by  Deputydave 
#1 ·
I read some where that the 180 gr. bullet weight is hard on the pistol and causes wear faster and that 165 gr. bullets are best to use.Now I am afraid to shoot the case of 180's I bought.The pistol I have is an M&P 40c. What do you think about all that?
 
#39 ·
Ive been shooting 180 grain FMJ's and hollow points for 3 years with no problems.
 
#42 ·
I love me the 40!
Gun Firearm Trigger Air gun Ammunition
I shoot both depending on whats available for sale. I like the 180 better ...it recoils less and I shoot better groups with it. Shoot all you want. You will not hurt a 40c.......your hand is another story! I think I'd shoot 180 exclusively in a small compact handgun beacause it will hurt less.
 
#45 ·
I love me the 40! View attachment 316779 I shoot both depending on whats available for sale. I like the 180 better ...it recoils less and I shoot better groups with it. Shoot all you want. You will not hurt a 40c.......your hand is another story! I think I'd shoot 180 exclusively in a small compact handgun beacause it will hurt less.
That carbine is sweet! How is the reliability?
 
#44 · (Edited)
Yeah... I've never been concerned about wear on my pistols, in part because I shoot a lot of different pistols. But even if I only had one, I'd just shoot it and replace parts as need. It costs a considerable amount in ammunition to shoot enough to wear out a pistol.

I choose 180 gr in .40S&W (vs. the lighter bullet weights) because I enjoy the feel more, I can hit well with rapid fire, and the effectiveness of bullets like Federal's 180 gr HST is very good. It is only side benefit, to me, that there may be less wear on the pistol with 180 gr. vs 155 gr or 165 gr.
 
#48 ·
I know Fred understands this, but for those that may not, free recoil and felt recoil tend to be very different things. So the debate will continue...
Which is why it isn't as simple as PF or a recoil calculator. I can even tell the diff between diff powders running the same vel/bullet wt. Example is WST, it "feels" softer at the same vel as say TG or RedDot. Same bullet, powder charge within 1/10gr, "feels" softer. I am not sure if that is how the powder builds pressure or what, but it is noticeable.
 
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#49 ·
I use 180 grain HST/ Tactical Bonded. Occasionally, I use 155 grain Underwood XTP at 1,400 fps or so from a 5.31 inch barrel just for the grins.

Bullet setback can be an issue with the .40 S&W, although this is less of an issue with modern ammo (HST, GoldDot etc)

I use 200 grain Hardcast for my G27/35 when carried in the woods. Plus, who doesn't love police trade in Glock fortays with night sights for $350-400?
 
#51 ·
It is insignificant as to its addition to recoil. Problem with %, never tells the whole story. So what if it is 25% increse in powder, its still less than 2% increase in ejecta, or total weight of the mass being accelerated. Insignificant.
Consider the alternate; increasing bullet weight by 18% & reduce vel by 30% & recoil impulse goes down? The acceleration has little to do with it without figuring in rpm imo. So yes, a faster bullet contributes to snappy recoil but it isnt just acceleration & certainly not 2gr of ejecta.
So, you think that the 26% (2.7 gr) increase in powder charge behind the lighter bullet is insignificant in felt "snappiness".

And you think that the increased acceleration rate of the lighter bullet is insignificant in felt "snappiness".

If those two elements are not responsible for the increased felt "snappiness", just what do you attribute the increased felt "snappiness" to? The firearm itself hasn't changed, nor has the type of powder.
 
#52 ·
Obviously the increase in vel plays into it, mass x vel/gun wt = recoil. The 2.5gr of add'l powder does not in itself have much affect. The type/speed of powder used plays into it. The assertion that only the tiny powder increase is causing the recoil is what I take issue with. If you added 2.5gr to the bullet wt, you have the same total mass of ejecta, yet you can not feel that.
Load a 115gr bullet to the same PF as a 147gr, mass x vel & the recoil will be diff. You will be loading with a tiny bit more powder, in my loads, 1/2gr. My theory is rotational torque causing the "felt" recoil to be higher. Same PF, but a noticeable increase in felt recoil. 300-400fps higher vel x the twist rate = higher torgue. Certainly more feasible than the add'l charge wt alone of 2.5gr of powder increasing the recoil.
Obviously, load the 147gr bullet to the same vel as the 115gr, you are going to get even higher recoil, but not what we are talking about. We are talking about identical Power factor but the heavier bullet having les recoil. Why? That is the question.
 
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#53 · (Edited)
Sorry, Fred. I disagree with your theory. Adding 2.7gr to the BULLET weight (you call it ejecta, ok, I call it bullet weight) is pretty much irrelevant vs. adding 2.7 grains (26% more) of gun powder to the charge. You think adding 2.7 extra grains (26% more) of gun powder charge has NO felt effect. I say it does. So, we'll just have to leave it at that. Neither of us is going to prove that point here.

The reason we're discussing equivalent PF of two loads: one with a lighter bullet and another with a heavier bullet load, and noticing more recoil with the heavier bullet is because some defense loads are that way. Using a .40S&W Glock 23, for example, one might compare a 165 gr defense load with a 180 gr defense load, see similar PF numbers, and assume that the two loads will exhibit similar recoil, because the PF numbers are similar.

And in fact, the two loads don't exhibit similar recoil characteristics. The reason is because the lighter bullet requires a heavier charge of gun powder to achieve the same PF as the heavier bullet and because it accelerates more quickly out of the case.

Competition shooters tend to favor heavier bullet weights over lighter bullet weights, when striving to attain the SAME PF number, because the heavier bullet weights tend to exhibit a softer recoil than do the lighter bullet weights - at the SAME PF required to meet minimum competition requirements. THAT is why we're discussing this!

We've gone around in circles with this long enough for my taste. I'm done.
 
#57 ·
While the PF debate rages, another advantage to the .40/180 gr. is that it is a subsonic round, so it is better suited as an indoor/confined spaces SD round, where ear protection may not be in use.

Something else to consider. The Velocity component of Energy is ^2. So while a fast round may blast its way in? It is also cooking the target with heat energy derived from that velocity, as the mass stays constant. This means it will lose energy faster than just frontal area resistance.




Nutter
 
#58 ·
So, if I had a light bullet flying the same velocity as a heavier bullet in the same gun, different powder which bullet would you choose?
Generally, the heavier bullet. But, it would depend on the specific bullets being discussed, and whether they worked as designed on the receiving end.
 
#65 ·
I agree the standard is 180 and I believe it to be the best all around weight for the .40.

However, I do remember playing with some 150 / 155 gr JHP and Power Pistol in a PT101. Those loads were lights out on vermin and ferals around the farm. They were loud and flashy, but I can see where the street cred of the lighter weight .40's came from.
 
#66 ·
Never did understand why anyone would use a bullet heavier than 150 in a .40.
 
#69 ·
The Border Patrol was having problems with hot 155 gr. loads out of both it's Beretta 96's. And later H&K's. They said the loads were hard on both the shooter and the gun. They tried going to a lighter 135 gr. load. But ended up just going with the old and proven 180 gr. loads. Less slide velocity. Less recoil. Easier on the gun and the shooters.
 
#71 ·
I use to have a Glock 23 and I always used Gold Dots 165 grain. I never had any problems with them.
 
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#73 ·
The 180 gr 40 loads have a very sharp pressure curve. In loading and testing, everything seems fine, then you add a tenth or two more of powder and it hits a very dangerous pressure curve. That’s why most mfrs that offer a 180 in 40 is pretty mild.
Yet that is totally powder specific. Some powders are fine 100% compressed, some will freak out & the pressure curve goes vertical.
 
#74 ·
I work at an Ammo company and we use modern pressure testing equipment. We’ve used every powder available in all of our calibers. We have found universally that the 180 gr projectile in a 40 has a fast steep pressure curve Andy is dangerous when loaded hot.
 
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