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GLOCK G36 - Yes, it's a GLOCK!

19K views 262 replies 71 participants last post by  L Pete 
#1 ·
6+1 .45 ACP trumps 6+1 9mm Euro, and Thin is a win for CC/IWB.

...but haters gotta hate.

Thin, Light Weight, Compact, Reliable, .45 ACP - GLOCK G36.

Yes, it's a GLOCK.



Have Two, Had Three, shoot Five regularly - Zero (0.0) operational malfunctions of Any Kind after Thousands of rounds.

They are GLOCKs.

And, being a light weight, compact .45 ACP, are even more prone to malfunction due to Shooter Incompetence.


Yes, 6+1 - just like the beloved li'i G43 GLOCK.

Practice Tactical Reloading until you can do it in your sleep, at 03:00, in your Chuck Norris jammmies,

...and always carry a spare mag.




Nutter
 
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#174 ·
I don't think you know what the word premiere means, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/premiere

It means first. The Glock 19 was designed for LEOs that needed to conceal carry but needed the benefits of a fullsize pistol. That makes the 19 Glock's Premiere CC Pistol.
 
#179 · (Edited)
Time to science the hell out of this.

The best way to measure the permanent cavity a bullet makes is to fill the cavity with a silicone, let it harden, remove it, and place it a container of water to measure how much it rises.

Unfortunately no one does that so the best we can do for this internet discuss is treat the cavity as a cylinder and take it's volume (pi*r^2*h, r=.5expansion and h=penetration).

Using Lucky Gunners data, http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/, I'm using the best performing HST round from each caliber: 124+P, 180, and 230+P.

124+P: pi*(.5*.66")^2))*18.3"=6.26 cubic inches
180: pi*(.5*.72")^2))*18.5"=7.53 cubic inches
230+P: pi*(.5*.79")^2))*14"=7.94 cubic inches

Take the cavity per round and multiply that by the total number of rounds in the gun.

G17 (18): 18*6.26=112.68 cubic inches
G22 (16): 16*7.53=120.48 cubic inches
G21 (14): 14*7.94=111.16 cubic inches

G19 (16): 16*6.26=100.16 cubic inches
G23 (14): 14*7.53=105.2 cubic inches
G30 (11): 11*7.94=87.34 cubic inches

G26 (11): 11*6.26=68.86 cubic inches
G27 (10): 10*7.53=75.3 cubic inches
G36 (7): 7*7.94=55.58 cubic inches

Next factor to consider is hits on target. LEOs miss 70-80% of the time, http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/. It does not matter if it is your first time shooting or you are Rob Leeham, the more recoil a gun has the harder followup shots will be.

Recoil:
This calculation is based on a public domain free recoil equation that takes into account the bullet weight and muzzle velocity plus the cartridge powder charge weight and expelling gas muzzle velocity applied against the gun's weight. The result is measured in foot-pounds of energy.

vgu = {(mp • vp) + ( mc • vc)} / mgu • 7000 → Etgu = mgu • vgu2 / 2 • gc

Where:
Etgu is the recoil energy expressed in foot-pounds (ft·lb).
mgu is the weight of the gun expressed in pounds (lb).
mp is the weight of the bullet expressed in grains (gr).
mc is the weight of the powder charge expressed in grains (gr).
vgu is the total forward velocity of the gun expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
vp is the velocity of the bullet expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
vc is the velocity of the powder charge expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
gc is the dimensional constant and is the numeral coefficient of 32.1739.
7000 is the conversion factor to set the equation equal to pounds.

G17: 5.6 ft-lbs
G22: 8.5 ft-lbs
G21: 8.7 ft-lbs

G19: 5.8 ft-lbs
G23: 9.1 ft-lbs
G30: 9.1 ft-lbs

G26: 6.2 ft-lbs
G27: 9.5 ft-lbs
G36: 10.9 ft-lbs

Source - http://www.genitron.com/

With more recoil there is less hits on target, on one end is 30% hits on target and the other is 20%.

Take the 5.3 ft-lbs difference (10.9-5.6) and break that down to 53 .1ft-lbs and divide the 10% LEO accuracy to it. Every .1 ft-lb more of recoil decreases accuracy .1886%.

The accuracy by recoil is:

G17: 30%
G22: 24.52%
G21: 24.15%

G19: 29.62%
G23: 23.39%
G30: 23.39%

G26: 28.87%
G27: 22.64%
G36: 20%

We take this hit rate and apply to the wounding capacity of the gun.

G17: 112.68 * .30 =33.804 cubic inches
G22: 120.48 * .2452 = 29.55 cubic inches
G21: 111.16 * .2415 = 26.85 cubic inches

G19: 100.16 * .2962 = 29.67 cubic inches
G23: 105.42 * .2339 = 24.66 cubic inches
G30: 87.34 * .2339 = 20.43 cubic inches

G26: 68.86 * .2886 = 19.88 cubic inches
G27: 75.3 * .2142 = 17.05 cubic inches
G36: 55.58 * .2 = 11.12 cubic inches

I have everything laid out for you to mathematically refute me. I encourage you to do so wholesomely laying everything out just as I did.
 
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#180 ·
I've taken courses with force-on-force scenarios using sim-rounds. What is your experience? Shooting once every 3 seconds at your range?
Yes, it's a very small difference in size and yes it's a small chance it will make a difference but nonetheless it's still a chance that exists and is why I'll always choose a .40/.45 over 9


This all started by nutter jerking Glock's redheaded stepchild, the 36, calling it the best ccw. It's not. You have to look at the whole package and a lot more people choose to carry the 26 and 27, same size as the 36, because they're simply better packages.

Get out a ruler and look at 2.5mm. A length that small is so insignificant in size compared to the human body that chances of missing a vital organ by 2.5mm is unrealistic. The chance of a CCW'er even needing to carry and use it is not there, but we do anyway because it is our right.

If you want to go by tissue damage compare sever 45s to eleven 9s both in HST. The total damage of the 9 will be better. Let's go by volume of a cylinder (pi*r^2*h) as the amount of damage occured and multiple that by number of rounds. Using Lucky Gunners results for 230+P (7.94"/round x 7 rounds = 55.58" of total tissue damage) and 124+p HSTs (6.26"/round x 11 rounds = 68.86" of total tissue damage). No one is claiming on a per bullet basis 9 is better than 45, but perspective is everything which is why the total package has to be compared. 26/27 > 36.

You can carry any caliber you want but don't fabricate arguments like you work at CNN. There is a reason why over 1500 out of 2100 CCW survery pariticpants carry 9mm, https://ccwsurvey-tpops.rhcloud.com/results
Time to science the hell out of this.

The best way to measure the permanent cavity a bullet makes is to fill the cavity with a silicone, let it harden, remove it, and place it a container of water to measure how much it rises.

Unfortunately no one does that so the best we can do for this internet discuss is treat the cavity as a cylinder and take it's volume (pi*r^2*h, r=.5expansion and h=penetration).

Using Lucky Gunners data, http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/, I'm using the best performing HST round from each caliber: 124+P, 180, and 230+P.

124+P: pi*(.5*.66")^2))*18.3"=6.26 cubic inches
180: pi*(.5*.72")^2))*18.5"=7.53 cubic inches
230+P: pi*(.5*.79")^2))*14"=7.94 cubic inches

Take the cavity per round and multiply that by the total number of rounds in the gun.

G17 (18): 18*6.26=112.68 cubic inches
G22 (16): 16*7.53=120.48 cubic inches
G21 (14): 14*7.94=111.16 cubic inches

G19 (16): 16*6.26=100.16 cubic inches
G23 (14): 14*7.53=105.2 cubic inches
G30 (11): 11*7.94=87.34 cubic inches

G26 (11): 11*6.26=68.86 cubic inches
G27 (10): 10*7.53=75.3 cubic inches
G36 (7): 7*7.94=55.58 cubic inches

Next factor to consider is hits on target. LEOs miss 70-80% of the time, http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/. It does not matter if it is your first time shooting or you are Rob Leeham, the more recoil a gun has the harder followup shots will be.

Recoil:
This calculation is based on a public domain free recoil equation that takes into account the bullet weight and muzzle velocity plus the cartridge powder charge weight and expelling gas muzzle velocity applied against the gun's weight. The result is measured in foot-pounds of energy.

vgu = {(mp • vp) + ( mc • vc)} / mgu • 7000 → Etgu = mgu • vgu2 / 2 • gc

Where:
Etgu is the recoil energy expressed in foot-pounds (ft·lb).
mgu is the weight of the gun expressed in pounds (lb).
mp is the weight of the bullet expressed in grains (gr).
mc is the weight of the powder charge expressed in grains (gr).
vgu is the total forward velocity of the gun expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
vp is the velocity of the bullet expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
vc is the velocity of the powder charge expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
gc is the dimensional constant and is the numeral coefficient of 32.1739.
7000 is the conversion factor to set the equation equal to pounds.

G17: 5.6 ft-lbs
G22: 8.5 ft-lbs
G21: 8.7 ft-lbs

G19: 5.8 ft-lbs
G23: 9.1 ft-lbs
G30: 9.1 ft-lbs

G26: 6.2 ft-lbs
G27: 9.5 ft-lbs
G36: 10.9 ft-lbs

Source - http://www.genitron.com/

With more recoil there is less hits on target, on one end is 30% hits on target and the other is 20%.

Take the 5.3 ft-lbs difference (10.9-5.6) and break that down to 53 .1ft-lbs and divide the 10% LEO accuracy to it. Every .1 ft-lb more of recoil decreases accuracy .1886%.

The accuracy by recoil is:

G17: 30%
G22: 24.52%
G21: 24.15%

G19: 29.62%
G23: 23.39%
G30: 23.39%

G26: 28.87%
G27: 22.64%
G36: 20%

We take this hit rate and apply to the wounding capacity of the gun.

G17: 112.68 * .30 =33.804 cubic inches
G22: 120.48 * .2452 = 29.55 cubic inches
G21: 111.16 * .2415 = 26.85 cubic inches

G19: 100.16 * .2962 = 29.67 cubic inches
G23: 105.42 * .2339 = 24.66 cubic inches
G30: 87.34 * .2339 = 20.43 cubic inches

G26: 68.86 * .2886 = 19.88 cubic inches
G27: 75.3 * .2142 = 17.05 cubic inches
G36: 55.58 * .2 = 11.12 cubic inches

I have everything laid out for you to mathematically refute me. I encourage you to do so wholesomely laying everything out just as I did.
I'll still take a bigger hole over a smaller hole. No science involved on my opinion, just gut instinct.
 
#181 ·
That's fine. I agree, on a per bullet basis it goes 10 > 45 > 40 > 9. But handguns are a compromise so we have to find where we personally fall. But I disagree with nutter the 36 is the best Glock CCW when the evidence submitted says otherwise.
 
#182 ·
Time to science the hell out of this.

The best way to measure the permanent cavity a bullet makes is to fill the cavity with a silicone, let it harden, remove it, and place it a container of water to measure how much it rises.

Unfortunately no one does that so the best we can do for this internet discuss is treat the cavity as a cylinder and take it's volume (pi*r^2*h, r=.5expansion and h=penetration).

Using Lucky Gunners data, http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/, I'm using the best performing HST round from each caliber: 124+P, 180, and 230+P.

124+P: pi*(.5*.66")^2))*18.3"=6.26 cubic inches
180: pi*(.5*.72")^2))*18.5"=7.53 cubic inches
230+P: pi*(.5*.79")^2))*14"=7.94 cubic inches

Take the cavity per round and multiply that by the total number of rounds in the gun.

G17 (18): 18*6.26=112.68 cubic inches
G22 (16): 16*7.53=120.48 cubic inches
G21 (14): 14*7.94=111.16 cubic inches

G19 (16): 16*6.26=100.16 cubic inches
G23 (14): 14*7.53=105.2 cubic inches
G30 (11): 11*7.94=87.34 cubic inches

G26 (11): 11*6.26=68.86 cubic inches
G27 (10): 10*7.53=75.3 cubic inches
G36 (7): 7*7.94=55.58 cubic inches

Next factor to consider is hits on target. LEOs miss 70-80% of the time, http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/. It does not matter if it is your first time shooting or you are Rob Leeham, the more recoil a gun has the harder followup shots will be.

Recoil:
This calculation is based on a public domain free recoil equation that takes into account the bullet weight and muzzle velocity plus the cartridge powder charge weight and expelling gas muzzle velocity applied against the gun's weight. The result is measured in foot-pounds of energy.

vgu = {(mp • vp) + ( mc • vc)} / mgu • 7000 → Etgu = mgu • vgu2 / 2 • gc

Where:
Etgu is the recoil energy expressed in foot-pounds (ft·lb).
mgu is the weight of the gun expressed in pounds (lb).
mp is the weight of the bullet expressed in grains (gr).
mc is the weight of the powder charge expressed in grains (gr).
vgu is the total forward velocity of the gun expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
vp is the velocity of the bullet expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
vc is the velocity of the powder charge expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
gc is the dimensional constant and is the numeral coefficient of 32.1739.
7000 is the conversion factor to set the equation equal to pounds.

G17: 5.6 ft-lbs
G22: 8.5 ft-lbs
G21: 8.7 ft-lbs

G19: 5.8 ft-lbs
G23: 9.1 ft-lbs
G30: 9.1 ft-lbs

G26: 6.2 ft-lbs
G27: 9.5 ft-lbs
G36: 10.9 ft-lbs

Source - http://www.genitron.com/

With more recoil there is less hits on target, on one end is 30% hits on target and the other is 20%.

Take the 5.3 ft-lbs difference (10.9-5.6) and break that down to 53 .1ft-lbs and divide the 10% LEO accuracy to it. Every .1 ft-lb more of recoil decreases accuracy .1886%.

The accuracy by recoil is:

G17: 30%
G22: 24.52%
G21: 24.15%

G19: 29.62%
G23: 23.39%
G30: 23.39%

G26: 28.87%
G27: 22.64%
G36: 20%

We take this hit rate and apply to the wounding capacity of the gun.

G17: 112.68 * .30 =33.804 cubic inches
G22: 120.48 * .2452 = 29.55 cubic inches
G21: 111.16 * .2415 = 26.85 cubic inches

G19: 100.16 * .2962 = 29.67 cubic inches
G23: 105.42 * .2339 = 24.66 cubic inches
G30: 87.34 * .2339 = 20.43 cubic inches

G26: 68.86 * .2886 = 19.88 cubic inches
G27: 75.3 * .2142 = 17.05 cubic inches
G36: 55.58 * .2 = 11.12 cubic inches

I have everything laid out for you to mathematically refute me. I encourage you to do so wholesomely laying everything out just as I did.
So which gun stopped the fight faster?

I don't see that here.
 
#183 ·
I guess science was not your strong suite in college. Did you go to college? Gender Studies?
 
#184 · (Edited)
Surveys tell you fashion, not Style.

The G36 IS GLOCK's Premiere* CC Pistol, bar none.

.45 ACP...


* Premiere -
adjective
first; initial; principal:
a premiere showing; the premiere attraction of the evening.

I don't think you know what the word premiere means
I don't think you know what an Adjective is.

:supergrin:




Nutter
 
#186 ·
Surveys tell you fashion, not Style.

The G36 IS GLOCK's Premiere* CC Pistol, bar none.

.45 ACP...


* Premiere -
adjective
first; initial; principal:
a premiere showing; the premiere attraction of the evening.



I don't think you know what an Adjective is.

:supergrin:




Nutter
Get the pants off your head so you can see the dicitionary link I provided.
 
#189 ·
Wow ten pages on the Glock 36, a gun that kind of flopped sales wise. Don't get me wrong nothing wrong with the gun they just don't sale a lot of them which surprised me. I can remember when people were bagging for a single stack Glock 45 and when it hit the market little interest. Might be why it took Glock so long to come out with the 43.
 
#192 ·
Don't get me wrong nothing wrong with the gun they just don't sale a lot of them which surprised me. I can remember when people were bagging for a single stack Glock 45 and when it hit the market little interest. .
Maybe it's because apparently .45 is uncontrollable
 
#191 ·
Time to science the hell out of this.

The best way to measure the permanent cavity a bullet makes is to fill the cavity with a silicone, let it harden, remove it, and place it a container of water to measure how much it rises.

Unfortunately no one does that so the best we can do for this internet discuss is treat the cavity as a cylinder and take it's volume (pi*r^2*h, r=.5expansion and h=penetration).

Using Lucky Gunners data, http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/, I'm using the best performing HST round from each caliber: 124+P, 180, and 230+P.

124+P: pi*(.5*.66")^2))*18.3"=6.26 cubic inches
180: pi*(.5*.72")^2))*18.5"=7.53 cubic inches
230+P: pi*(.5*.79")^2))*14"=7.94 cubic inches

Take the cavity per round and multiply that by the total number of rounds in the gun.

G17 (18): 18*6.26=112.68 cubic inches
G22 (16): 16*7.53=120.48 cubic inches
G21 (14): 14*7.94=111.16 cubic inches

G19 (16): 16*6.26=100.16 cubic inches
G23 (14): 14*7.53=105.2 cubic inches
G30 (11): 11*7.94=87.34 cubic inches

G26 (11): 11*6.26=68.86 cubic inches
G27 (10): 10*7.53=75.3 cubic inches
G36 (7): 7*7.94=55.58 cubic inches

Next factor to consider is hits on target. LEOs miss 70-80% of the time, http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/. It does not matter if it is your first time shooting or you are Rob Leeham, the more recoil a gun has the harder followup shots will be.

Recoil:
This calculation is based on a public domain free recoil equation that takes into account the bullet weight and muzzle velocity plus the cartridge powder charge weight and expelling gas muzzle velocity applied against the gun's weight. The result is measured in foot-pounds of energy.

vgu = {(mp • vp) + ( mc • vc)} / mgu • 7000 → Etgu = mgu • vgu2 / 2 • gc

Where:
Etgu is the recoil energy expressed in foot-pounds (ft·lb).
mgu is the weight of the gun expressed in pounds (lb).
mp is the weight of the bullet expressed in grains (gr).
mc is the weight of the powder charge expressed in grains (gr).
vgu is the total forward velocity of the gun expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
vp is the velocity of the bullet expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
vc is the velocity of the powder charge expressed in feet per second (ft/s).
gc is the dimensional constant and is the numeral coefficient of 32.1739.
7000 is the conversion factor to set the equation equal to pounds.

G17: 5.6 ft-lbs
G22: 8.5 ft-lbs
G21: 8.7 ft-lbs

G19: 5.8 ft-lbs
G23: 9.1 ft-lbs
G30: 9.1 ft-lbs

G26: 6.2 ft-lbs
G27: 9.5 ft-lbs
G36: 10.9 ft-lbs

Source - http://www.genitron.com/

With more recoil there is less hits on target, on one end is 30% hits on target and the other is 20%.

Take the 5.3 ft-lbs difference (10.9-5.6) and break that down to 53 .1ft-lbs and divide the 10% LEO accuracy to it. Every .1 ft-lb more of recoil decreases accuracy .1886%.

The accuracy by recoil is:

G17: 30%
G22: 24.52%
G21: 24.15%

G19: 29.62%
G23: 23.39%
G30: 23.39%

G26: 28.87%
G27: 22.64%
G36: 20%

We take this hit rate and apply to the wounding capacity of the gun.

G17: 112.68 * .30 =33.804 cubic inches
G22: 120.48 * .2452 = 29.55 cubic inches
G21: 111.16 * .2415 = 26.85 cubic inches

G19: 100.16 * .2962 = 29.67 cubic inches
G23: 105.42 * .2339 = 24.66 cubic inches
G30: 87.34 * .2339 = 20.43 cubic inches

G26: 68.86 * .2886 = 19.88 cubic inches
G27: 75.3 * .2142 = 17.05 cubic inches
G36: 55.58 * .2 = 11.12 cubic inches

I have everything laid out for you to mathematically refute me. I encourage you to do so wholesomely laying everything out just as I did.
That's math, not science
 
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#194 ·
So here is what we've learned:

1. Pistol calibers are inherently inadequate therefore choosing a smaller pistol caliber is best.

2. Larger pistol calibers cause larger wounds and may increase blood loss compared to smaller calibers, therefore choosing a smaller caliber is best

3. .45 ACP is uncontrollable causing more misses

4. We need lots of smaller caliber ammo to make up for the misses
 
#195 ·
@certifiedfunds

I'm not disagreeing that on a per bullet basis that 45 is better than 9. It is; I even math it out myself.

You have to look at the whole package. Before adjusting for accuracy due to recoil, a 9mm pistol in each category can cause more cubic inches of permanent wound cavities than an equally sized 45 pistol. Once again, yes a single 45 does more than a 9. But you're not going to holster up your G19 but only put 11 rounds in because that's all a G30 will hold.
 
#196 · (Edited)
I don't have any accuracy problems with .45. That assumption is where you go wrong.

I have two G30's and two G36's and carry them occasionally. I'm carrying a G26 at the moment with a spare G19 mag. The spare mag isn't because I anticipate needing 26 rds, it's in case of mag failure.

I carry a G19 at times too. Rarely carry the G43. I'm not particularly good with any but I'm equally capable with any of them except the 43. Generally you will find me carrying 9mm simply because I shoot 500-1,000 rds of 9mm each week (firing 3 seconds apart). It makes sense to me to generally carry what I shoot the most. But I can pick up the 30's or 36's and shoot equally well.
 
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#209 ·
Hard to call a pistol the premiere when it is the biggest sales flop since the 45GAP.
Again... Fashion, not Style.

They probably sell a lot more Boy Scout Knives than KA-BARs, too.

:supergrin:

The G36 IS GLOCK's Premiere* CC Pistol, bar none.

.45 ACP...





Nutter
 
#211 ·
It's a gun that has been under the radar. When Springfield introduced their single stack, to hear the press, it was like no one had marketed a single stack compact 45 even though the Glock 36 was out two years prior.

Glock armourers aren't enamored with it because it has a unique set of parts that they now must carry.

I have one and a G30SF. I keep it as a hideout at home and shoot the 30 in GSSF major sub.
 
#219 ·
I've considered the 19, however I just got the 26 tuned with working the internals, sights, grip and mag extension and talon grips.
Having a heck of a time with grips due to arthritis in these aging paws of mine... Lumps and bumps where they shouldn't be... Thanks
 
#223 ·
Do you carry IWB or OWB? If IWB can you recommend a holster?
I carry IWB at 3:30 in a GALCO Stow-N-Go suede holster.

With the Rhinoplasty, it is very comfortable.


The holster clip has a notch in it, and that usually goes over a trouser belt loop. I treat the holster on the inside with first Snow-Seal, and then silicone spray. Makes for a very comfortable yet grease/sweat proof rig.




Nutter
 
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