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380 not an good round to put your life on

21K views 274 replies 106 participants last post by  Joseph Senko 
#1 ·
An 380 is not enuff bang to put ur life on. 9mm allways
 
#7 ·
How many people are killed with .22s? Everything is a trade off. Carrying an M&P9c for tonight's job but have carried my Kahr CW380 when more discretion was needed. If you are thinking 9mm will stop them, than you better think again. They don't all fall to .45 either. My employer would be upset if I swung out of the SUV with an AR or AK
 
#12 · (Edited)
You might make things easier to read if you used regular language format, versus social media/texting shorthand.

Having seen and learned of .380 ACP used to shoot people and houses, while I'd not necessarily support it being assigned a role as a LE/Military primary service/duty sidearm, but neither would I dismiss it out-of-hand as a particularly "ineffective" caliber.

Granted, I didn't want to own anything chambered in .380 for approx 25 years since I last carried a Beretta M84 for a while, preferring smallish 9's and 5-shot .38 Spl snubs, but the introduction of increasingly reliable, ultra lightweight and really diminutive .380's - like the LCP - made me re-evaluate it as a useful retirement CCW choice for some circumstances.

Basically, I can slip a LCP into some jeans front pockets (pocket holstered) which are too short and tight to allow me to carry one of my 5-shot snubs in them. That makes the LCP, and the .380 ACP (using one or another of the modern JHP's), a practical choice for some of my activities.

Everybody's got to suit themselves, though.
 
#17 · (Edited)
History unquestionably proves larger caliber produces better stopping power across the board. However. It isn't always possible to carry the largest caliber or the highest capacity firearm so as with most things in life, a trade off of sort must be chosen. As with most, I would rather pack my KelTec P32 in lew of a rock, sharp stick, or most any knife, and have for many years.

For the bulk of said many years, I couldn't risk being 'made' in various anti "weapon" environments. The term "weapon" could and would cover a lot of ground for a hostile lawyer representing my company's client, so I had that to consider also. And while I did on occasion carry a compact hi capacity 9mm, I was always far more jittery at being discovered for whatever reason imaginable.

I often see the surgical shot placement arguement when the subject of mouse gun defensive maneuvers are called for. For that I have four words. Good. Luck. With. That. At best, you will have milliseconds to draw and aquire your target. Even shorter time to start launching lead. Good luck with headshots, center mass shots, or hitting a determined attacker anywhere. Period. In addition, you must always assume your tiny caliber pistol won't do the job and prepare additional countermeasures.

Most of the time, thank the Almighty, MOST street mopes don't like to bleed. And again MOST of the time, even a .25 will 'work' if said mope(s) are merely presented with one, and here is where most tiny guns shine brightly. Hence the ongoing popularity and effectiveness of said calibers.

Trick is I think, is to first be armed with the best and largest caliber you can conceal legally under your unique circumstances, and be as effective with said caliber as you can make yourself be. IE never carry a micro gun when you can easily carry something larger. The rest is in the hands of the abovementioned Almighty should the woods go quiet.

Just some thots.

Gray_Rider
Old Secessh
 
#18 ·
Tota
History unquestionably proves larger caliber produces better stopping power across the board. However. It isn't always possible to carry the largest caliber or the highest capacity firearm so as with most things in life, a trade off of sorts must be chosen. As with most, I would rather pack my KelTec P32 in lew of a rock, sharp stick, or most any knife, and have for many years.

For the bulk of said many years, I couldn't risk being 'made' in various anti "weapon" environments. The term "weapon" could and would cover a lot of ground for a hostile lawyer representing my company's client, so I had that to consider also. And while I did on occasion carry a compact hi capacity 9mm, I was always far more jittery at being discovered for whatever reason imaginable.

I often see the surgical shot placement arguement when the subject of mouse gun defensive maneuvers are called for. For that I have four words. Good. Luck. With. That. At best, you will have milliseconds to draw and aquire your target. Even shorter time to start launching lead. Good luck with headshots, center mass shots, or hitting a determined attacker anywhere. Period. In addition, you must always assume your tiny caliber pistol won't do the job and prepare additional countermeasures.

Most of the time, thank the Almighty, MOST street mopes don't like to bleed. And again MOST of the time, even a .25 will 'work' if said mope(s) are merely presented with one, and here is where most tiny guns shine brightly. Hence the ongoing popularity and effectiveness of said calibers.

Trick is I think, is to first be armed with the best and largest caliber you can conceal legally under your unique circumstances, and be as effective with said caliber as you can make yourself be. IE never carry a micro gun when you can easily carry something larger. The rest is in the hands of the abovementioned Almighty should the woods go quiet.

Just some thots.

Gray_Rider
Old Secessh
I totally agree. Personally i have an clipdraw on my 17 wich helps tremendously with showing an btw carry as there is no holster profile. Check one out. I carry my 17 with an untucked t shirt & unless you know me you would not notice i am carrying.
 
#33 ·
What is Cooper's first rule of a gunfight?

While I personally think a 9mm is the floor, I think you and your Frau are doing the right thing and the best you can under the circumstances.
 
#29 · (Edited)
In actual shootings there's not a lot of difference between the .380 and 9mm.

"Over a 10-year period, I kept track of stopping power results from every shooting I could find. I talked to the participants of gunfights, read police reports, attended autopsies, and scoured the newspapers, magazines, and Internet for any reliable accounts of what happened to the human body when it was shot."

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power


.380 ACP
# of people shot - 85
# of hits - 150
% of hits that were fatal - 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76
% of people who were not incapacitated - 16%
One-shot-stop % - 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 62%

9mm Luger
# of people shot - 456
# of hits - 1121
% of hits that were fatal - 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated - 13%
One-shot-stop % - 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 47%
 
#49 ·
In actual shootings there's not a lot of difference between the .380 and 9mm.

"Over a 10-year period, I kept track of stopping power results from every shooting I could find. I talked to the participants of gunfights, read police reports, attended autopsies, and scoured the newspapers, magazines, and Internet for any reliable accounts of what happened to the human body when it was shot."

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power


.380 ACP
# of people shot - 85
# of hits - 150
% of hits that were fatal - 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76
% of people who were not incapacitated - 16%
One-shot-stop % - 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 62%

9mm Luger
# of people shot - 456
# of hits - 1121
% of hits that were fatal - 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated - 13%
One-shot-stop % - 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 47%
From this is looks as though the 380 is more effective than the9mm. Am I missing something?
 
#32 ·
Dave,

In that post, I was referring to a shooters' ability to access and connect with a mouse gun over a full size/midsize pistol/revolver with any degree of success. Small or almost non existant sights, short barrels etc. Again it is what you can do with the caliber of your choice under the circumstance given.* If you can rain down that kind of hell with your 9mm over a heavier caliber, (and under the stresses of an actual encounter), you are altogether correct in your choice. Especially with today's 9mm load and performance that makes old school 9mm look like .380 in the stopping power department.

*" I always aim for the right eye, and I never miss!"
Aluric Goldfinger to James Bond concerning his (Goldfinger's), choice of the .25 auto. for personal defense.

Cheers, and thanks for the quote!

"We don't hold grudges. We remember the facts."
"Truth is complicated. Myths are easy."

Gray_Rider
Old Secessh
 
#47 ·
Those are some scary good specs on the viability of the .380 in actual gunfights and shootings. No word on HP over HB ammo and how it shaped up, but still some sobering facts from people who have "seen the elephant" as it were! Thanks for sharing that info and site, and for your research into the matter too!

Just guessing here, but most ammo used in these documented shootings was probably hardball, as a rule, the least effective ammo for this caliber and it's still very sobering stats for such a small weak caliber out of almost certainly small short barreled pistols!

As the old song went, "Not. Too. Shabby!". Seeing this, I feel better about the effectiveness of my BUG and occasional primary KelTec P32. that is somewhat less powerful than the .380ACP.

In any event, I am pleased .380 has done so well as so many pistols are being produced for and carried with the intention of self defense! People could do a LOT worse, and I won't miss the mopes that will have their career paths altered for them because SOMEONE WOULD (and did) at least carry a .380!

For whatever reason!

Gray_Rider
Old Secessh
 
#48 ·
I am sure there are plenty of folks in many cemeteries that have been shot by a .22 that will disagree with you.

Remember:

Location
Location
Location
 
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