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Gory stories about ripped off fingers..

3K views 17 replies 11 participants last post by  Benchrst 
#1 ·
Hello all,
my name is Tom, and I'm new at 10mm shooting. I own a G20 Gen4 (everything original) since two weeks and I was twice at the range, shooting 50 rounds each time. I shoot handloaded ammo only, so my first 100 pieces of new Starline brass is about to be reloaded.
I put 9gn of N105, CC300 LP, behind a Frontier copper plated 180gn bullet, just within the range of the VV loading table. The brass looked very good, no ruptures or splits. Resizing was quite easy.
Now I read some articles here about lost fingers, and people who wear armour when firing their Glocks. Are you serious?? Is reloading 10mm in a Glock really that dangerous? When I bought my G20, I didn't have the intention to wear a helmet and kevlar gloves each time I pull the trigger. So here's the questions: How many times can I reload my starline brass with N105 with the maximum due to the loading table (9.9gn) without risk? What are the critical signs?
My reloading experience is limited to 45-70 Gov't, and I dump the shells when the primer pocket gets too loose and I get gun smoke on the case bottom and the breech plate

Tom
 
#2 ·
I've been reloading 10mm for about 10 years. Never used your powder but my loads have chronograph'd at 1175-1250 using Starline nickel mostly. Never had a single issue & never wear protective gloves. My guess is 5-10 loading before a vertical split occurs although recently I had a few virgin Starline split after just two loadings. Stay within book loads, cause gauge each round & confirm you COAL and you'll be fine.
 
#3 ·
I have a G20.4, and have shot 811 different loads (43 different powders, 76 bullets) and over 4K rounds. Almost all have been through an AF barrel, but many of the hottest loads have tested OK with stock.

I use Starline, some have at least 10 loadings. I have retired less than 5 total pieces due to neck splits.

1, 2, 3, 4... I seem to have all my fingers :)
 
#4 ·
My Gen3 G20 missed the memo, apparently. It didn't realize that it is supposed to come apart when shooting reloads.

Stick to book data, do proper load development, and all is fine. The only book load that was iffy is the Hornady 180 gr XTP load. But that isn't the fault of the G20.
 
#5 ·
If the cases show the infamous Glock Smile, the load is too hot. That is true for any service pistol, though. Only the 800-X load that I mentioned above has given smiles in my testing.

I get at least nine reloads through my brass. Typically new Starline brass is loaded with a max charge. Then the case is added to the mixed brass assortment to spend it's life at more modest charges for range/gaming ammo. When it splits, it's done!
 
#7 ·
I've tried a bunch of VV powders including N105, N340, N350 & 3N37. My go to 10mm powder is N350. All Chrono'd and shot thru gen 3 g20. N105 was by far the worst(lowest velocity)powder. The only way I can see getting any decent velocities is to go way over VV own max which is 9.9gr showing a velocity of 1280fps. I have rounds made but not Chrono'd all the way up to 12.0gr in .2 increments from 10.2. None of these had a glock smile. 9.9gr only yielded me 1018.2 fps. At that rate you don't need to fear brass splitting or loosing a finger. It's more like a S&W 40 load.
Here's my results. New star line brass, CCI 300, Montana gold 180 gr, & OAL 1.256". In my opinion horribly low.
8.7gr 814.6
9.0. 872.7
9.3. 930.7
9.6. 980.8
9.9 1018.2
10.2 1055.2
The following loads are over VV max's but under speers max's so I would assume still safe. But use this data at your own discretion. Work up slowly.
By comparison N350 same brass, primers, bullets, and OAL
7.5gr 994.1
8.0 1077.2
8.5 1131.8
9.0. 1179.1
9.5. 1234.2

And 3N37 same brass, primers, bullets, and OAL
7.0gr. 912.4
7.5. 973.8
8.0. 1033.3
8.5. 1082.3
9.0. 1112.3
9.5. 1160.5
10.0 1206.3
 
#8 ·
Now I read some articles here about lost fingers, and people who wear armour when firing their Glocks. Are you serious??
No. Not serious. But, I do have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'm selling.
 
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#9 · (Edited)
I haven't loaded any 10mm in a while, but I have loaded N105. I will check my records tomorrow, but as I recall, the VV load data for N105 is way off. I think it was like 2 or 3 grains off. That is, to get the results they claimed in velocity, I had to go 2grs or more higher. I have a favorite 180gr jacketed load with N105, I can post tomorrow. It comes in just under 1300fps out of my OEM G20 barrel and has essentially no flash. Much above 1300fps I was getting pretty consistent smiles from my OEM G20 barrel.

When testing loads at max book and above, I do use Kevlar gloves. With polymer pistols, a case head kaboom can result in a cracked receiver, usually right down the grip. When the expanded grip closes back down on your skin, nasty blood blisters in your palm and/or fingers can result. This kind of outcome isn't going to happen if you work up slowly and pay attention to your cases along the way as Taterhead indicated. Smiles mean stop and go back some.
 
#10 ·
I've loaded several thousand 10mm for a glock 20 and a eaa witness mostly middle of the road loadings and was always disappointed with the case life some new brass would split with less than 4 reloads never understood this I've reload 40 sw brass many times before they split but i still love the 10mm.
 
#12 · (Edited)
OK, found my records, my max load for VV-N105 under a 180gr jacketed bullet was 12.4gr loaded to 1.260" OAL. This yielded 1311fps average from my OEM G20 barrel and 1245fps average from my OEM G29 barrel.

The SD were single digits in both, almost zero flash. Cases looked fine (no smiles at all) other than some extractor rash on the rims. The extractor rash starts right around 11.9gr in my guns and just gets worse as I went up.

One of my favorite powders for 180gr bullets.

The above is above book, so if you decide to go this way, you need to work them up slowly in your gun and barrel. Only a pursuit an experienced loader should undertake.
 
#13 ·
I've heard crazy, baseless Internet rumors that the case support is not the same as you would expect from more robust 10 mm barrels.

With that said, I'm guessing most of these bulged cases and blow'd up guns were idiots trying to defend their lack of reloading skills than actual problems with the construction of the barrel.

I don't doubt that Glock makes a very well supported, ramped 10 mm barrel. If you put them side-by-side with the custom 1911 barrel, will the 1911 demonstrate more case support, probably. But if you stay within sane parameters of reloading data, I can't imagine that being a problem.
 
#14 ·
I've heard crazy, baseless Internet rumors that the case support is not the same as you would expect from more robust 10 mm barrels.

With that said, I'm guessing most of these bulged cases and blow'd up guns were idiots trying to defend their lack of reloading skills than actual problems with the construction of the barrel.

I don't doubt that Glock makes a very well supported, ramped 10 mm barrel. If you put them side-by-side with the custom 1911 barrel, will the 1911 demonstrate more case support, probably. But if you stay within sane parameters of reloading data, I can't imagine that being a problem.
The OEM barrels do have less case head support than many alternatives. Glock makes a very generous feed ramp and chamber dimension for their straight walled calibers (for maximum feed reliability).

As you say, I have never seen anything close to being a problem for anyone loading within published book guidelines. When you start treading into the twilight zone (above book max), you will reach case limits faster with an OEM barrel than most aftermarket options. If you know what you are doing, all that means is you have a lower max charge with the OEM barrel, but that max has always plenty for my needs.
 
#17 ·
Interesting post about N105. I have not been on this forum for over a year.
However today I was at the range shooting some N105 in my 38 Super (Kimber). Temp was 29 degrees. At 7.9 gr @ 1186 and 8.4 gr @ 1280. Big difference .5 grains makes.
Came home and loaded some 10mm 180gr HP with 12.2 gr of N105. Last time i checked this load it was running 1330 fps.
Somewhere in my gun safe there is a Glock 20 with a tactical slide and a 5.5" barrel. I plan on going to the range in the next few evening with my crono, I will post the results here.
 
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