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45 Super?

454K views 2K replies 146 participants last post by  R Freeman 
#1 ·
Anyone using 45 Super in their G21, G30, or G36? Just wondering how the Glocks perform with it... If it works well, I might consider switching from 10mm Auto to 45 Super.
 
#1,564 ·
Congrats. That other post ought to flip a few switches here, shooting a 460 Rowland GAP. I guess getting some meat in the freezer has you feeling a little "frisky".

Got the correct Carver on my 41, and am piddling with loads now. Have snow on the ground, so things are challenging at the shooting hole. I was also able to get a hard look and measurement of the throats in my Bar-Sto 41 barrel. Pretty much none to speak of. Heavy 250ish at .452 is out of the question, depending on the ogive and bullet base edge. Found a few heavy .451's that look like they will work. Can't get the 250 XTP to work at all, as the no-throat seating depth puts the XTP base too far into the case, for the tighter Bar-Sto chamber. Kinda bummed about that. The accuracy looks stunning so far with the Bar-Sto, so not feeling the itch to ream, just yet.

Good luck with the "pea shooter", guessing you have more tags to fill.

Craig
 
#1,567 ·
ES, Give'm heck. Yes, my bar-sto looks to be extremely accurate. I have not had a chance to extensively test for accuracy, as I have been focusing on the chrony, feeding and ejection. But I have seen a lot of 1-1.5" inch 3-5 shot groups at 25 yards. And, while only had a few ladders worked up with the Lasercast 250 RNFP last weekend, I had 1, 3 shot group with all touching. I started this bullet ladder a bit to high, so I need to throttle them back to 1000 fps, and retest. I only had 10 to test, but they were grouping nice.

SS, that looks good. I finally had a chance to work up some additional loads with my 41 last weekend, and I think I have gotten to the point where I know what will work. I previously tested the fin style AF comp that you show, and it seemed to work about the same as my longer AW comp, and my Carver.

With Longshot and the stock RSA and Carver 4 port, it looks like 230 grain bullets are going to top out at about 1100 fps. 250's and 260's are looking like about 1000 fps. Previously I asked about OAL possibly being too short and causing feed issues. This weekend, I was able to confirm it is not OAL, it is the "dreaded" slide velocity. With 230's at 1150 fps and 250-260 at 1050, I started to get failures to feed. Absolutely, the slide was out running the magazine. With concern for the narrower breech face of the 41 v. the 21, I am going to hold at those levels, for now. I need to see about 800-X loads as ES has posted extensively.

I'll be curious to see if you prefer the gill style over the other LWD AW. I found that the additional weight of the steel gill style made follow-ups a little slower, as my gun nose would dip quite a bit when coming into battery. But, it sure is nice seeing some options for the 41.

Good luck, and nice to see someone else working with the 41,

Craig
 
#1,571 ·
I am 54, but can still see irons, thankfully. I have co-witnessed irons, so I shoot mine both ways. The dot does bring better accuracy for me at range. Kinda funny, but I added a Veridian X5L to mine, so I actually have a green laser as well ;^). Not going to use the laser, but really wanted it for the recessed light button. Those folks doing the Roland Specials on the 17's and 19's, have nothing on me :^)

Craig
 
#1,572 ·
SS , like the looks of your 21 , looking forward to hearing how it does.

Bear, the 41 slide is the same as 9/40 correct? Should be the same width as my G36, while I have not shot it extensively or with heavy for caliber bullets (over 230 gr.) I feel comfortable with 185's @ 1400 or 230's @ 1200 from G36/LWD barrel with brake and 23 lb RSA .
 
#1,573 ·
ES,

Yes, it has the thinner 9/40 slide. It also has the mos system, so the breech face has a bit less (or a lot less) mass and support behind the breech than the typical 9/40 slide. So there is that to ponder. The slide metal beside the breech and around the extractor cut-out is not awe inspiring, to say the least. Right now, much over 230/1100 is showing excessive slide speed, characterized by feed issues.

I am off to Nevada for Christmas, and will try and hit up some of the local shops for powder. Looking for 800-x, per your testing. If I cannot find it, then I will order upon my return. I have been locked into Longshot for so many years, I really do need to expand some there.

I want to first try that. Then I will start messing with the RSA. I need to pick up another 24 pound spring, and see if that will help, although my testing with the ISMI 24 showed very little difference compared to the stock RSA. I attempted to pick up one of the dual spring assemblies posted earlier, and ending up getting a different brand. This one does slow the slide a lot, but I only shot a couple with it due to spring stack/bind. I also have that avenue to explore, with the maker.

I'm probably dancing around the inevitable, throating. I would need a new reamer for that, as the one I have has cut quite a few Supers and Rowlands. I am not sure why I am suddenly terrified by this, perhaps it is the cost of my Bar-Sto ;^)

Craig
 
#1,574 ·
From my testing it is a total package with the comp./ brake the most important part of combo. RSA is for fine tuning for chosen loads .

Especially after being greedy/power hungry while testing 260 cast in G39 GAP I " try" to refrain from excessively extending throat. The way the LWD barrel came to me it would shoot well under 1 inch 3 shot groups @ 35 yds with 185 gr. XTP's @ 1400 + fps ! Was thrilled with performance and accuracy. Then wanting to see how fast I could push the 260 gr. I reamed throat deep enough (forget exact measurement but considerable amount) to chamber 260 @ 1.14 oal ,longest that will work in GAP mags. After reaming the 185's will do no better than 1 inch @ 35 yds with long jump for 185's. Accuracy can be regained by seating long but will not work in mag.
The 260's @ 1050 shoot 1'' or less groups but disappointed in loss of accuracy of 185's! It was probably the most accurate Glock I have shot and with GREAT power from a Baby Glock.
IMO it is best to decide on the bullet you will shoot most before reaming . Longer oal allows more powder space/lower pressure BUT also takes more powder to achieve same velocity (everything else remaining constant) as shorter oal .

NEVER ATTEMP LOADS LISTED ABOVE IN GAP BRASS OR UNMODIFIED GUN!!!
 
#1,575 ·
Well in a quick test running both comps side by side the alphawolf comp is more efficient than the fishgill style comp. Time constrained I only ran two loads to get a feel for it, one light and one heavier bullet. Load one was a 185gr xtp 13.2g power pistol, which averaged 1620fps from this gun, the other load is a 250 grain plated barry's bullet under 10.5g 800x running a 1224fps average.

With the 185 grain load cases fall 3.5-4 feet from the gun with the fishgill comp but only 18 inches away with the alphawolf. The 250 grain load sent cases 4-5 feet away with the fishgill comp, the alphawolf cut the distance to 2.5-3 feet. The gun does shoot flatter with the big ports facing upwards now which is nice. Hope the durability is there with the aluminum but so far the alphawolf is better for super loads.
 
#1,577 ·
Well in a quick test running both comps side by side the alphawolf comp is more efficient than the fishgill style comp. Time constrained I only ran two loads to get a feel for it, one light and one heavier bullet. Load one was a 185gr xtp 13.2g power pistol, which averaged 1620fps from this gun, the other load is a 250 grain plated barry's bullet under 10.5g 800x running a 1224fps average.

With the 185 grain load cases fall 3.5-4 feet from the gun with the fishgill comp but only 18 inches away with the alphawolf. The 250 grain load sent cases 4-5 feet away with the fishgill comp, the alphawolf cut the distance to 2.5-3 feet. The gun does shoot flatter with the big ports facing upwards now which is nice. Hope the durability is there with the aluminum but so far the alphawolf is better for super loads.
Good job SS!
Sounds like you have a nice set up with the LWD long slide along with your custom RSA.
The longslide's weight makes a considerable difference. The one I made a brake for was shooting 230XTP's @ almost 1450 fps with cases only going 18- 24 in from gun!
 
#1,578 ·
SS,

That is great to hear. And I concur, the long slide sure has made this "easy" for you. Couple of questions, though. Did you feel any difference in the way the gun handled with the steel gill v. the AW? It made my gun (41) feel very nose heavy, and was slower for me on follow up shots.

Also, I always run a few acp loads through mine when I begin testing, to help me make sure my RSA has not gotten weak. Are you able to even run acp's?

Craig
 
#1,582 ·
Tim,
I am looking to convert my 21 to a Rowland and was hoping to get some advice on what comp to get and some starting loads for 800x in 230 and 250 gr. I have looked but not much reloading data out there. Thanks and Merry Christmas to you all
Tim,

There is an astounding amount of data in this thread, but...

A good start might be the Alpha Wolf comp, though ES350 can make you a comp (and ream your barrel) to match the loads you want to shoot.

800x tends to produce highest velocities and best accyracy. But, you must trickle each load charge because it meters terribly. Others have had good luck with Longshot and Blue Dot, and AA#7 would be worth a try if you have some.

I also compiled a bunch of the data and learning points in another thread, to help catch you up quick.
http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/the-all-new-big-45-super-thread.1593879/

But, if you are a sensitive academic type, don't look at it because I didn't individually cite and reference each piece of data with everyone's favorite APA formatting. Instead, I just said "I didn't come up with this data!" And included a link to this thread.
 
#1,583 ·
For Rowland levels, I would recommend an efficient steel brake.
The pressures developed in SUPER/Rowland levels are very hard on aluminum brakes from my testing.

As SS30378 has demonstrated and also from my testing the weight of the LWD lonslide doesn't need as much brake as the stock 21 slide. Now we need some guys to shoot a bunch of Rowland level loads to see how many rds they can get before loss of effectiveness.

Rowland load data;
http://www.460rowland.com/load-data/
 
#1,584 ·
The alphawolf comp has a .475" bore out of the box. So far I have about 400 rounds through it, 200 of them would be in the 460 territory with both power pistol and 800x. No measureable change yet in diameter or visible erosion. I'll keep an eye on it as the round count increases.
 
#1,585 ·
I've been shooting this gun in USPSA Open class at club level. I have about 2800rnds through this gun with various level loads. I generally run a 230gr rn plated @1200fps and have started playing with 155gr coated. I am certainly interested in a more efficient comp. But I love the smaller size of the KKM.
 
#1,588 ·
Lil-Gun , 296, H110 and #9 For sure are A LOT more abrasive on alum. brakes.
I was still playing with designs when I was testing above powders. The alum. Comp. I had on gun at time was something new I was trying. After maybe 100 rds I noticed cases were starting to fly further from gun. Inspecting inside of comp. I quickly saw the reason why.
Severe erosion of first baffle and starting on others as well.

I screwed on another and after 50 rds could see the effects of gas cutting from the slow powders.
I tried this again with 800x / new comp. After 300-400 rds could see the tell tale sign of gas cutting. It was not as severe as the slower powders after only 50-100 rds . The higher pressure of hot loads of course makes this worse.

I would imagine Blue Dot along with any of the slower powders would quickly erode baffles on alum. brakes .
 
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