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Super-reduced 9mm loads?

18K views 70 replies 30 participants last post by  unit1069 
#1 ·
A female friend is looking to get her own handgun and likes the feel of my G26, but hasn't shot it yet. She likes the simple form and function of Glocks, and doesn't like most of the non-pocket .380 options out there.

The problem is, while she could shoot my 17L okay, she didn't like the recoil as much. She actually suggested some reduced-power handloads (after shooting my .308 with Unique handloads) in 9mm, and after talking, we agreed that might be a better option in the long run because she culd eventually work her way up to modern defensive loads.

Since I wouldn't recommend she expanding ammo in .380 anyways (due to inconsistent and generally-poor penetration), I figured even a 115gr FP load at a mild velocity wouldn't be any less effective than whatever she ran through a .380, until she got comfortable with more powerful loads.

But, just in the interest of trying this out for her (since it wouldn't cost me more than a few bucks and loading time), how low do you guys think would still function decently? I was thinking of aiming for a 124gr (since that is what I load for myself) at around 750-800fps? It would provide more recoil than .380, but still wouldn't provide too much less impulse than a mild 147gr load (about 800fps).

She hasn't fully decided on a gun yet and I wouldn't let her actually carry any such experimental load until it had proven itself for at least a few hundred rounds, but this is just for the sake of testing it as an option. I agree with her that if she likes the feel of the G26 (which she does), and doesn't like most of the .380 options out there, this could be a decent alternative. Plus, there are the added benefits of versatility (she can pop in a 17rd mag for the car or home and be much better off than a 6+1 .380), and again the ability for her to eventually work up to standard defensive loads.

Long story short, how low have you gone with your 9mm loads and still had reliable functioning?
 
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#55 ·
Recoil mitigation is an odd term IMO. Not every shooter deals with recoil the same way, regardless of techniques taught, recoil is still there. Why so many like the 9mm in the first place. IF it were as easy as a 10 min class, everyone would carry 40s or 45s & they don't. IMO, recoil management has to be learned & that takes trigger time.
The various std pressure 147gr seem to offer the least recoil in any size 9mm. If you can handload them, run them around 800fps, like shooting 38sp wc, pretty soft & easier to get smaller guns to run on them.
 
#57 ·
I think many of us forget what our first shooting was like. Many will take years to learn to manage recoil, again at speed, it is not natural nor something that can be shown & then just done. One reason shooters advance faster learning on say a 22lr first vs, "here is your duty G23, go score expert".
 
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#58 · (Edited)
The G43 cycled fine today with 95gr bullets at 950fps (as low as I loaded--4.0gr Universal). Based on calculated momentum, I should be able to get 124s down to around or perhaps even below 800fps with the same recoil impulse. I am going to try 3.0, 3.3, and 3.5gr of Unique to see where it ends up.
 
#60 ·
A female friend is looking to get her own handgun and likes the feel of my G26, but hasn't shot it yet. She likes the simple form and function of Glocks, and doesn't like most of the non-pocket .380 options out there.

The problem is, while she could shoot my 17L okay, she didn't like the recoil as much. She actually suggested some reduced-power handloads (after shooting my .308 with Unique handloads) in 9mm, and after talking, we agreed that might be a better option in the long run because she culd eventually work her way up to modern defensive loads.

Since I wouldn't recommend she expanding ammo in .380 anyways (due to inconsistent and generally-poor penetration), I figured even a 115gr FP load at a mild velocity wouldn't be any less effective than whatever she ran through a .380, until she got comfortable with more powerful loads.

But, just in the interest of trying this out for her (since it wouldn't cost me more than a few bucks and loading time), how low do you guys think would still function decently? I was thinking of aiming for a 124gr (since that is what I load for myself) at around 750-800fps? It would provide more recoil than .380, but still wouldn't provide too much less impulse than a mild 147gr load (about 800fps).

She hasn't fully decided on a gun yet and I wouldn't let her actually carry any such experimental load until it had proven itself for at least a few hundred rounds, but this is just for the sake of testing it as an option. I agree with her that if she likes the feel of the G26 (which she does), and doesn't like most of the .380 options out there, this could be a decent alternative. Plus, there are the added benefits of versatility (she can pop in a 17rd mag for the car or home and be much better off than a 6+1 .380), and again the ability for her to eventually work up to standard defensive loads.

Long story short, how low have you gone with your 9mm loads and still had reliable functioning?
I'd say just start her with a .22 and let her practice a lot with that.

Alternately, get her a 38 special. Hardly much more recoil than a .22 out of a good sized revolver. 38 special, while not ideal, will get the job done. Also doesn't have the issue of being able to rack the slide.

You can have her rent one at the range first, and see what she thinks.
 
#61 · (Edited)
I can load 9mm as soft as 38sp & still get it to work in most 9mm w/o a spring change. If the gun balks, drop one spring rate usually does the trick.
 
#62 · (Edited)
1) This was originally posed almost 5 years ago, heh.

2) If one can load a defensive-oriented gun she likes, down to recoil levels she will enjoy enough to be able to practice and improve the fundamentals, that is what I am going to do. Id rather her be comfortable and confident with the gun that will be in her car or on her nightstand, rather than give her false confidence with a target pistol that sits in the safe.

3) Recoil tolerance starts at a natural state for any given shooter and increases with practice and committment. I giggle when I shoot full-power 180gr .308 loads through my un-braked Encore pistol, but most people would find it unpleasant. And it is absolutely not because they haven't been taught some magic zen art of "recoil mitigation."

4) I fully second that one can easily load most 9mms down to .38sp levels. Then you end up with a pistol that is easier to hold, easier to reload, and easier to shoot accurately because they arent trying to squeeze a 12lb trigger on a pocket revolver. On a related note, I once saw a study testing hand strength in women. Even high-level female athletes in specialties that require a lot of hand strength (Jiu Jitsu, for example) still scored in the bottom 25th percentile of hand strength compared to average men. If I remember right, 95 percent of women fall within the BOTTOM 5th percentile of average men! I only cite this to support that we often overlook this aspect of revolver shooting. (Not to mention that, in my experience, revolvers transfer more recoil to the shooter for a given power level because there is no reciprocating mass).

Anyways, I have no dog in this argument anymore, and just figured I'd share my thoughts. I am going to keep playing with light-loaded rounds to make sure my wife (different girl--we have been married 3 years now) enjoys shooting the gun.
 
#63 ·
While it is true gals have less upper body strength in general, good technique does allow for recoil management of even the largest pistols, but it does take time.
I have guys I shoot with, big guys, manly men, that will NOT shoot magnums or even full power 45. So while experienced shooters, they still prefer light recoil to heavy recoil. I am almost immune to recoil, after shooting full house 44mags for years, I still prefer the almost none existent recoil of a 9mm in something heavy like my 1911 though.:af:
 
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#64 ·
Just an update.

Ran 40 rounds of 124grs over 3.0gr Unique through the G43. The wife had one malfunction on her second round, but I shot two mags each with just my right hand and just my left hand with no issues.

10 rounds through the chrono averaged about 815fps, with an ES of roughly 50fps. 3.2 gr of Unique all functioned fine.

So, I will keep her gun loaded with the 124s at roughly 850fps (to account for the relative innobsistencies observed).

I also made some nice 124gr loads coming out at 1260fps from my G19 and 1515 from my Sub2000.
 
#65 ·
I might try some 115gr XTPs. Looking at some gel tests of lower-end boutique loads, they should actually get some degree of expansion if I can run them at about 1000fps, which would only generate about 10% more recoil than 124s at 850fps. It should make for a good compromise, and still be far better than the G42 we traded toward the 43.

However, she did note that the 124s at 1000ish-fps produced more recoil than she expected (to the detriment of her shooting), so hopefully splitting the difference will work out!

It will be a while, though, as I am deploying in a couple days heh.
 
#67 ·
Without doing any research on the round itself, it would have to leave the muzzle at about 750fps to match the recoil of the above 115gr XTP loads. Even if it did, I'd have a hard time believing any modern bullet would expand at such velocities.
 
#68 ·
150 Micro HST will work, the other option is...
G42 loaded with Underwood 380 90 gr extreme penetrator, Precision one XTP or Hornady american gunner XTP.
Super soft shooter and we went to the range with 8 women and everyone loved it. The only other option was the Sig 238 with the same rounds but you have to carry it cocked and locked
 
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