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Speed reload. How do you dump the mag?

6K views 49 replies 18 participants last post by  fredj338 
#1 ·
I've been spoiled by years of GSSF's off-the-clock reloads and realized when doing IDPA drills with a friend recently, I suck at reloading. I was just googling/watching videos on the subject and after watching the first part of this one:

I gave it a try and found the following:

My Gen3 17 with Agrip, I pretty much can't activate the mag release with my right thumb.
My Gen3 21SF (no Agrip), I can, but it's not 100% reliable.
My Gen4 41 (no Agrip), the enlarged mag release button makes using the strong hand thumb much easier.
My preferred method is to shift the gun in my hand slightly, trigger finger moves off the trigger and onto the front of the trigger guard, and use my middle finger (strong hand) to reach around to and activate the mag release.

Is my preferred method "wrong" or just another way of doing it?
 
#3 ·
My Frau couldn't do a decent mag change with her stock Gen 3 G19, so I installed a Vickers mag release. It was about half way between a G34 competition release and the stock G19 one. Works much better now.

The only folks I know who drop mags with their gun hand are HK guys. I didn't know Glock guys did that. The only concern I'd have with your "shift the gun in my hand slightly, trigger finger moves off the trigger and onto the front of the trigger guard, and use my middle finger (strong hand) to reach around to and activate the mag release" is the time it takes to shift your grip, drop the mag and then regrip the gun. Sounds like it uses up a lot of time, especially if you're on the clock in IDPA or USPSA. You're giving up a lot of time to the folks you're shooting against.
 
#8 ·
My Frau couldn't do a decent mag change with her stock Gen 3 G19, so I installed a Vickers mag release. It was about half way between a G34 competition release and the stock G19 one. Works much better now.

The only folks I know who drop mags with their gun hand are HK guys. I didn't know Glock guys did that. The only concern I'd have with your "shift the gun in my hand slightly, trigger finger moves off the trigger and onto the front of the trigger guard, and use my middle finger (strong hand) to reach around to and activate the mag release" is the time it takes to shift your grip, drop the mag and then regrip the gun. Sounds like it uses up a lot of time, especially if you're on the clock in IDPA or USPSA. You're giving up a lot of time to the folks you're shooting against.
...omg...reallly???

i hope i'm reading these posts wrong...do i drop my mag w/ my "gun" hand???? my strong hand??? hell yes...while the other hand is reaching for the next mag. the empty mag and the full mag should in theory pass each other in the air...

so if I don't drop my mag w/ my "gun" hand as stated, then how do you do a one handed reload??? and thats a real question and not a "ninja" question as I spent 3mos w/ out the use of one hand...
 
#5 ·
Your method certainly would be wrong for me.

A gen3 production Glock takes a little practice to dial in for reloads. I think it depends a lot on hand size and specifically how your hands are put together. I have spent a pretty fair amount of dry fire time on this.

From a mechanical standpoint, I snap the gun back pretty straight from the last sight picture, and keep the muzzle fairly high. My fingers come completely off the front of the grip. My index rotates around the grip, but only just enough for my thumb to hit the button.

While that is happening, my weak hand indexes on the mag and brings it up to the well as fast as possible. My vision indexes on that position of mag and well between sight pictures. Once I hit that visual index, the mag goes in, and the whole mount snaps to the next sight picture in one motion. I use this same basic process at slide lock.

First video below shows a few different views of live process, including a surprise slide lock reload. Second video shows dry practice from sight picture to sight picture with 1.0 sec par. That is one way to practice the pure mechanics.



 
#6 ·
I don't know what "speed" re loads are...I know what "combat" reloads and "Tac" reloads are...

If you found that you are lacking in your reloads, thats on yo and your training...but if you are of the group that "2 or 3 rds from my G43 will do" then you're fine...I hope...
 
#9 · (Edited)
I can & do in dry fire. Shoot a night training or match, you better be able to do it by feel.
Most shooters have to shift their grip on a full size service gun to hit the mag release on most pistols. Your trigger finger SHOULD be off the trigger anyway, unless you want a ND while reloading, yes seen it happen more than once. Dry fire time reloading is a huge boost in your ability to reload under stress & poor conditions. Want some real fun, at night with wet hands.
 
#19 ·
That is one way to do it, but means counting rounds, & in IDPA is illegal.
 
#20 ·
My preferred method is to shift the gun in my hand slightly, trigger finger moves off the trigger and onto the front of the trigger guard, and use my middle finger (strong hand) to reach around to and activate the mag release.

Is my preferred method "wrong" or just another way of doing it?
If it works it works, as long as you are always shooting a Glock - can you do that with other guns? Because you are building a habit you will go to, no matter what gun you are holding. The gun is supposed to shift in your grip, just like Doug Koenig does in the video, so why not use your thumb?

I'm thinking that if reaching around with your middle finger was as effective, we'd see it more. It sounds slow to me.
 
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#21 ·
It would be slow. Competition shooters refine all of methods to best manipulate a handgun or rifle at speed. The rest can either follow or get out of the way. This goes for LE & military as well.
 
#23 ·
I have small hands and it's hard to press the mag button with my shooting hand thumb. So, I developed my own thing where I press it with my support hand thumb and "sweep" it down, sweeping the mag out along with it. Then I put in a new mag and rack the slide with my left hand.
 
#28 ·
Some of the nitpicky rules are annoying, but it does try to maintain some realism. I was glad to see the flat-footed reload go away. As long as you are behind cover you can dance a damn jig for all I care. I still don't like the mandatory top off of the first mag either. Minor issues really.
 
#31 · (Edited)
when you do a Tac re load (loading because you want to not because you have to) that mag shouldn't end up on the ground...pocket or dump pouch...
Correct. But no such reload exists on the clock in uspsa. Run & gun, 6-8 mags on your belt, drop them on the ground 1/2 full, just seems like bad muscle memory for when you carry just one or two mags?
 
#32 ·
Correct. But no such treload exists on the clock in uspsa. Run & gun, 6-8 mags pn your belt, drop them on the ground 1/2 full, just seems like bad muscle memory for when you carry just one or two mags?
setting competition and competition rules aside, my generic view on Tac re loads is that they're good practice. Now of course what you carry and the capacity has an impact. If you have a 7 or 8rd capacity, and you fire 3-5rds, doing a tac re load would be very beneficial in the event that a threat was not down or a new one emerged. If I had a 15rd mag and deployed 3-5rds on one threat I would be looking for more threats as I still have plenty in the mag...if it appeared that the 1 threat was it I would then dig to my deepest mag and tac re load and replace the used mag in that farthest pouch.

All that being said, I always have a minimum of 2 high cap backup mags to whatever I'm carrying, so if its my G29 w/ 11rds loaded yes, I would definitely do a tac reload after firing and then I would have a minimum of 31rds accessible for any new threats...and if I'm working or traveling i have 4 or 5 high cap back up mags and possibly a long gun as well....and on that note, given the current times and regardless of what one carries...if the riots come after you the last thing you have time for is jamming mags w/ people coming at you, so having 3-5mags in the glovebox in my opinion is a good practice.

but look at the general practice this way, you're clearing a building- CQB. you enter a room and fire 6 or 8rds, room is clear, tac re load would be best practice because what if you get hit in the hallway or the next room has people behind cover then you'll need a full mag instead of running dry in the middle of "oh sh*t"
 
#33 ·
(above continued)

I think a lot of people, esp w/ a law enforcement background, approach issues in their head from the given perspective that if you hit a building its hit w/ plenty of officers and you end up w/ a couple officers in every room (Ive done SWAT work)...and thats fine and dandy until things get out of the norm. and even if its not a LEO individual, having the ability to be able to shoot and move in my mind is critical, and that means extra mags.

Today w/ active shooters etc I think cops esp need to mentally prepare to be in a situation where only a couple of people are entering an unknown building w/ unknown armed persons and having to move toward the sound of contact...some day an ISIS group will take a few people and go through a mall or an office building and I think it would be wise for cops esp to start thinking through that if they haven't already "ok, Im in the mall, hear shots around the corner, I engage 2 guys and fire 8 or 10rds, they drop and I don't see an immediate target, tac re load, approach- secure assailants weapons..."
 
#34 · (Edited)
(above continued)



Today w/ active shooters etc I think cops esp need to mentally prepare to be in a situation where only a couple of people are entering an unknown building w/ unknown armed persons and having to move toward the sound of contact...some day an ISIS group will take a few people and go through a mall or an office building and I think it would be wise for cops esp to start thinking through that if they haven't already "ok, Im in the mall, hear shots around the corner, I engage 2 guys and fire 8 or 10rds, they drop and I don't see an immediate target, tac re load, approach- secure assailants weapons..."
With any person, civ or leo, diff world today, diff threat levels & we should be taking a diff tact on training & practice. Most leo & ccw would engage two guys with 10rds & the bg woud still be in the fight, unfortunately.
 
#36 ·
The most important rule of reloading is....

Try to find cover, or at least concealment while you do it.
AND, don't drop the mag, it may be your only one. Cover is good, but losing sight of the attacker may also put you at higher risk. Things are always changing in training, civ & LEA. What was standard 30yrs ago may not be best today.
 
#39 ·
I shoot while stationary and reload while moving. My Gen3 Glock works best when I use my strong thumb on speed reloads. When shooting with my weak hand, I use my weak index finger to engage the magazine release. When shooting with my strong hand I speed reload by releasing the mag while simultaneously grasping a fresh mag with my weak hand, indexing with my index finger (with the fingertip touching the hollowpoint of the top cartridge. This makes it easy to find and feed into the magwell without looking.
 
#40 ·
Looking into the mag well, as recommended in the video, is not very street/battlefield-smart. Notably, Mr. Koenig did not mention the street or battlefield. I will not use one technique for gaming, while thinking I will use another on the street.

Extended mag release buttons/paddles/etc, to enable releasing the magazine while maintaining a firing grip, might result in an unintentional release of the magazine, so are not my idea of street/battlefield-smart. I want to have to shift my grip on order to release the mag, and am saying this as someone with relatively short thumbs on my long hands.

Even though I am a natural lefty, pulling a trigger is caveman-simple, whereas inserting a mag, especially under pressure, is a complex motor skill. This is one of several reasons I decided to carry on the right hip, 'way back in the Eighties. I am not kidding; the support hand has so very many highly-important things to do, so why not leave it more-free* to do its thing(s)? (Of course, like many lefties, I am more ambidextrous than the general population, so my way may not work as well for many right-handers, who may wish to mirror my way of doing things.)

*More reasons I carry "primary" on the right hip, even though lefty: While driving, in most vehicles, the right hip is more accessible than the left; I usually patrol alone. If I am writing, or eating, or such, when interrupted by a sudden emergency, I will not need to drop the pen/pencil/fork/spoon as part of the draw process. We humans tend to grasp things tighter in a sudden emergency, so this could sve me a significant fraction of a second in reaction time, plus, I may wish to jab with the pen, while drawing the handgun. This is especially relevant when note-taking while on duty. If my right hand is fighting for retention of my primary weapon, it will be the more-skilled left hand available to apply countermeasures. The countermeasures may include using a blade, or hard-metal "tactical" light, and it will be my more-skilled left hand wielding the blade/light/etc. Finally, being left-eye dominant, I shoot long guns lefty, so in the event of a transition, will not have to clear the long gun as far away before drawing the handgun.
 
#43 ·
#44 ·
Partial loaded mags NEVER go back in the pouch, never. Pocket only, then you know that you have only a partial mag if you get to that. Again, bad habits in practice can get you killed in a fight. Faster to drop a mag in a dump pouch, not likely for civ, or your pocket.
To list this as "NEVER" is silly. How many spare mags do you reckon Joe Citizen carries? How much reloading do you reckon gets practiced from the pocket?

So he does a tac exchange because he may need more ammo than what's in the gun. Then, when that new magazine runs dry, he rushes to do an emergency reload...but his one and only spare pouch is empty because he was taught to NEVER place a partial magazine there.

The world is hardly ever an ALWAYS/NEVER place. It's more like a maybe/sometimes place. And with all due respect, I think that this post shows a disconnect between your (admittedly excellent) competition skills and the real world.
 
#46 · (Edited)
To list this as "NEVER" is silly. How many spare mags do you reckon Joe Citizen carries? How much reloading do you reckon gets practiced from the pocket?

So he does a tac exchange because he may need more ammo than what's in the gun. Then, when that new magazine runs dry, he rushes to do an emergency reload...but his one and only spare pouch is empty because he was taught to NEVER place a partial magazine there.

The world is hardly ever an ALWAYS/NEVER place. It's more like a maybe/sometimes place. And with all due respect, I think that this post shows a disconnect between your (admittedly excellent) competition skills and the real world.
Well I don't want to take the time to find a mag pouch spot on my belt to fumble that connection when I should be focusing on something else in a fight. SO is that why the military carries dump pouches???? My partial mag goes in my pocket, feel free to put your anywhere you like.
I will admit, using never is probably not correct. Never say never.
FWIW, you can keep bashing the competition angle, most LEO do. We won't go back over that ground but your opinion is yours, based on what ever training & limited practice you have. BTW, haven't met an instructor yet that advocates trying to replace your mag in the pouch during a tac reload, rifle or handgun??
 
#45 ·
a reload is a reload... take the "speed" concept out of the task and just be deliberate. I reload in the lower margin of my presentation view by bringing the pistol to profile, depress the release, strip the mag out and onto the ground then insert the new mag then slingshot the slide.
 
#47 ·
I'm not bashing competition. I'm bashing what I believe is your misapplication of it. And your "NEVER" view of the world, based on the tiny subset of what's best in competition, is a prime example.

And BTW, you assume I don't compete. Again, silly.
 
#48 ·
I'm not bashing competition. I'm bashing what I believe is your misapplication of it. And your "NEVER" view of the world, based on the tiny subset of what's best in competition, is a prime example.

And BTW, you assume I don't compete. Again, silly.
No you assume my training, skill or knowledge is lacking because I don't carry a badge. Never assumed you didn;t compete at all.
 
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