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Disappointing Day At The Range - G34

4K views 75 replies 35 participants last post by  harold63 
#1 ·
I bought a new Gen4 G34 today with 3 mags, ...
Went to Walmart and purchased
- 50 rounds of Tull Ammo 9mm - never purchased nor shot any before
- 400 rounds of Winchester white box 9mm
Went to the range
My goal was to see how I like the gun and how it shoots.
I only load 5 rounds at a time, shoot those, analyze my groupings/ accuracy and start over
I shot a total of 115 rounds which equals 23 groups of 5 rounds
Of the 23 groups I had 20 Failure to Feed errors.
I first suspected the Tull ammo so I interspersed it with the Winchester and would sometimes get a FF error, sometimes not.
After 15 rounds of Tull I switched to Winchester exclusively and still had FF errors
I rotated between the 3 mags thinking that would make a difference - no such luck

Tonight I will clean the gun and hopefully this weekend get back to the range for some more testing.

If you have any thoughts I welcome them.
 
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#4 ·
I bought a new Gen4 G34 today with 3 mags, ...
Went to Walmart and purchased
- 50 rounds of Tull Ammo 9mm - never purchased nor shot any before
- 400 rounds of Winchester white box 9mm...

... Of the 23 groups I had 20 Failure to Feed errors.
I first suspected the Tull ammo so I interspersed it with the Winchester and would sometimes get a FF error, sometimes not.
After 15 rounds of Tull I switched to Winchester exclusively and still had FF errors
I rotated between the 3 mags thinking that would make a difference - no such luck
First I suspected the Tula. I have had bad boxes and last time no problem in my G19 Gen 3.

Then I reread your post. If you just picked up a new Glock you still have to clean and lube it prior to the first range outing. I am thinking you will be 100% on the next range outing.
 
#5 ·
I suspect limpwristing. Your Glock 34 should run any factory ammo without a hiccup if you do your part. That's what Glocks are known for! Clean and lube it the way the Glock documentation that came in the clamshell describes and try again. No "teacupping"; hold the gun correctly: high up on the tang, support hand fingers interlaced over strong hand fingers, and thumbs along the support side of the frame (support thumb in front of strong thumb). Also, use more grip strength from your support hand. The middle of your trigger finger pad should be used to press the trigger. If you shoot weaver, then the same applies except your thumbs might be off to the side and you will be using isometric tension between your two hands (push/pull) to stabilize the gun. You might wanna practice your basics and try trapping your trigger to the rear, then resetting before pressing the second time. Don't let your trigger finger fly off the trigger or loosen your grip after the first discharge.

All of the above is fundamental, but when someone says their new, unbroken Glock, with new Glock mags, won't fire factory ammo reliably, I tend to think that fundamentals are being ignored...
 
#14 ·
Thanks for your advice. I purchased the G34 as my new target weapon for GSSF and retired my G21 as I was having a hard time with it. I am a beginner but I feel that I do a decent job of shooting. I finished cleaning the 34 a little while ago so if I have the time I will head to the range this weekend. Thanks again!
 
#6 ·
As WeeWilly is implying, the most likely cause is the shooter. One MUST adopt a very firm grip to make up for the low recoil forces (i.e., Power Factor) produced by weak 115gr ammo in an auto pistol with lightweight frame and almost empty magazine. The firm grip makes up for the lack of frame/magazine mass and inertia for the slide to recoil against. The result is a slide that does not travel rearward far enough to properly pick up and chamber the next round in the magazine. Another thing that may happen is failure of the slide to travel rearward enough after the last magazine round has been fired to allow the slide stop lever to engage and hold the action open on the empty magazine.

Try it again with a consciously-applied very firm grip as the number one priority. If your feed failures go away, you've identified your earlier grip as the cause. You can then work to develope a grip that's acceptable for both you and the G34. Or...go to a heavier ammo loading. :)

If it turns out that you continue to get feed failures, then the G34 and ammo need evaluation...but at least you'll be able to say "The problem was NOT my grip!"
 
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#16 ·
As WeeWilly is implying, the most likely cause is the shooter. One MUST adopt a very firm grip to make up for the low recoil forces (i.e., Power Factor) produced by weak 115gr ammo in an auto pistol with lightweight frame and almost empty magazine. The firm grip makes up for the lack of frame/magazine mass and inertia for the slide to recoil against. The result is a slide that does not travel rearward far enough to properly pick up and chamber the next round in the magazine. Another thing that may happen is failure of the slide to travel rearward enough after the last magazine round has been fired to allow the slide stop lever to engage and hold the action open on the empty magazine.

Try it again with a consciously-applied very firm grip as the number one priority. If your feed failures go away, you've identified your earlier grip as the cause. You can then work to develope a grip that's acceptable for both you and the G34. Or...go to a heavier ammo loading. :)

If it turns out that you continue to get feed failures, then the G34 and ammo need evaluation...but at least you'll be able to say "The problem was NOT my grip!"
Ah! A wonderful description of the mechanics and how grip affects the motion of the slide.
"The firm grip makes up for the lack of frame/magazine mass and inertia for the slide to recoil against. The result is a slide that does not travel rearward far enough to properly pick up and chamber the next round in the magazine."
Now I understand and plainly see how the two factors are related.
Great advice, again!
 
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#8 ·
A properly set up 34 (or any pistol) should run 100% weak-hand. The strongest weak-hand mounts are equivalent to dishrag freestyle mounts. This is just how it is.

A pistol, ammo and shooter need to work together effectively as a system to address everything within the necessary operating range. That may mean making adjustments to all three.

Glocks are relatively crude guns, designed to accommodate a wide range of environmental challenges. Out of the box, they do require a fair amount of power to run reliably. You can definitely tune a 34 to run well on less power, though.

115gr bullets are not a very good choice for full-power ammo.
 
#17 ·
Been s
Are you a new Glock shooter?
User induced errors like you mention occur quite often with those new to Glock pistols.


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I have been shooting for 1 year as of last weekend (Griffin GSSF) but get to the range less than I desire, so to answer your question, yes.
 
#12 ·
Get you some WWB, 124 gr, NATO rounds. Power factor is a little higher than the 115 gr WWB while still being rapid-fire, controllable. Prices are similar to 115 gr WWB. Also, as others mention, be sure you're holding the pistol well enough that the muzzle rises, little, when you fire.

Tulammo 115 gr has a lower PF than WWB 115 gr. Ditch that stuff.........or use a GI Joe, Kung Foo death grip if you want to keep shooting it.
 
#13 ·
Ignore all this limp wristing crap. The gun should function with any grip, sans physically slowing the slide.

I have a suggestion, you might want to consider. Get a gen 3 recoil spring assembly and an adapter that will allow you to use it in the Gen 4. That's what I use and mine runs flawless. Should be able to get both for under $20.
 
#15 ·
I just don't get it..I read these posts about all the folks with the various problems with their Glocks and I just marvel...I have shot a variety of Glocks continuously since '89 and they feed Everything!
I have never had BTF issues, FTF or anything!
In the "day" we would visit the armory and grab all the nasty, green, corroded, seized/old evidence/turned-in ammo...take it to the range just to try and make something happen...some we had to bang the slide cover to force the stuff into battery...still fired perfectly...I guess I have just been very blessed that all my Glocks have performed virtually flawlessly...this is not to denigrate anyone who has experienced problems...maybe someone can enlighten me as to what the hell is going on with all these issues...I know QC has suffered in the past decade...these folks describing their problems cannot all be wrong...maybe I was just lucky enough to have shot all early models
( pre-mim etc)...I just don't know....
 
#21 ·
I just don't get it..I read these posts about all the folks with the various problems with their Glocks and I just marvel...I have shot a variety of Glocks continuously since '89 and they feed Everything!
I have never had BTF issues, FTF or anything!
....
You probably have some training in pistol shooting fundamentals. The untrained news like to pretend malfunctions aren't caused by the shooter.
 
#18 ·
In my experience, using the ammo you used, in new glocks(2013+), i have had a couple failure to feeds

They did go away after 100 or so rounds

I agree you should try some 124 gr nato or defensive hollow points and id bet it will work fine. If you still experience ftf's, it could be your grip

In my opinion, steel cased tula is the worst ammo made
 
#19 ·
In my experience, using the ammo you used, in new glocks(2013+), i have had a couple failure to feeds

They did go away after 100 or so rounds

I agree you should try some 124 gr nato or defensive hollow points and id bet it will work fine. If you still experience ftf's, it could be your grip

In my opinion, steel cased tula is the worst ammo made
OP,
I also agree with those who recommend you break it in on 124 gr. NATO rounds (Winchester has 124 gr. NATO).
Also, I would not shoot Tula or any other steel case ammo in any of my guns even if it was given to me.
It's total crap in my opinion.
Those who "think" otherwise are only fooling themselves.
 
#20 ·
My newest G34 is a Gen4MOS model and it's been flawless for over 2,500 rounds using only 115gr. Federal Champion & Fiocch FMJ at the range.
Your G34 should not have any issues eating 115gr. ammunition of any kind. I would suggest working on your grip and some dry fire practice will help you get used to the trigger.

Sometimes the extended slide stop lever is the culprit on these pistols. Depending on how you are gripping the pistol, the slide stop lever is sometimes pressed upward from gripping the pistol incorrectly and it rides the slide just enough to cause the issue you describe but not enough to allow the slide to lock open. I've seen it happen at the range with a female in the academy was running my G34 for the first time, she's always been a Ruger shooter and isn't used to Glock. Once her grip was corrected it ran flawlessly again, as it should.

If you can, have an experienced Glock shooter send a few rounds down range and see if they experience any failures.


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#22 ·
Not all malfunctions are caused by the shooter. In fact, if my CCW pistol won't pass the limp wrist test I'll replace it with one that will pass the limp wrist test.

An out of spec trigger bar is capable of causing feeding malfunctions. I bought two Glocks that had to have the trigger bars replaced before they would run correctly.

If you have a spare trigger bar or if you have another Glock with a trigger bar that will fit the new pistol it will be worth while to test the trigger bar.
 
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#23 ·
Almost all great advice, Get that firearm in the hands of an experienced shooter and watch it run.

I seen this first hand several time, even with my own son. These full size guns are not for every one.

If you purchased this for GSSF matches get a plain old G17 with new sights and grip tape and tear it up, You can shoot allot more divisions with the 17 as compared to the G34. Good Luck
 
#27 ·
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limp_wristing
Having a death grip on the gun does not eliminate limp wristing. It is a good idea to align the wrist to the forearm. Beyond that, some people have insufficient mass in their forearm for some guns to react against. Shooting around a barrier, it may not be possible to align the wrist to the forearm. So the gun should fire even if limp wristed. Limp wristing probably should be renamed something like "hand is at an angle to the forearm".
I agree the recoil spring could be the problem, which may solve itself if enough rounds are fired through the gun.
 
#28 ·
A lot of y'all mentioned my grip and last evening I was pondering your replies.
Philosophically I told myself that the 34 would be easier to shoot than the 21 so I am convinced that I slacked off some on my grip in anticipation of easier shooting.
Hmmm ... well, so much for that!
 
#30 ·
You very well may find a few more range trips and cleaning sessions and the gun might cycle the lightest loads regardless of your grip. Many times these things just work themselves out. You get a little more familiar with the feel of the gun, a few microscopic rough edges get knocked off and the gun runs smoother and freer in function.

I wouldn't lose faith yet. I always give a gun at least 500 rounds before I make up my mind. Heck, I even did that for that H&K P2000 I owned. I ended up hating it and did get rid of it after a short time, but even it got the basic 500 round road test.. :)
 
#29 ·
I finished cleaning the 34 a little while ago so if I have the time I will head to the range this weekend.
The best way I've found to avoid what folks call 'limp wristing' is to lock the elbow of the primary hand gripping the weapon.
 
#33 ·
If you have to shoot with an injured hand; if you have to shoot from an odd position; If you are in shock because you have been shot; if your petite wife, daughter or girlfriend has to use the gun. The gun should not jam. A Glock, really any semi-auto, can be tuned to the ammo you are using by changing recoil springs. OK, advantage revolver. Your Glock may be over sprung for the ammo you are using. The recoil spring should take a slight set with use though which may solve the problem. Glocks come from the factory setup for hot ammo. Polymer framed guns are more sensitive to limp wristing than all metal guns, because they have less mass. The trade-off is polymer frames are more comfortable for carry. They feel better in cold weather if you are not wearing gloves. They accommodate a wider range of hand sizes, especially as the grip can be made smaller in diameter. Tuning the ammo to the recoil spring should make you confident in your Glock. I switched from a CZ75, steel, to a CZP07, polymer, and never looked back. One major advantage of a Glock is that you have a wide variety of accessories available, including recoil spring systems.
 
#34 · (Edited)
UPDATE
Cleaned gun per Glock instructions
Went to Walmart and bought
- Winchester W Train & Defend 147 grain
Took my Winchester white box 115 grain and the newly purchase W T&D to the range
Put 5 rounds of WWB in the mag, gripped the gun tighter than on the last trip and had and immediate failure to feed.
Put 5 rounds of WT&D in the mag, gripped the gun tighter than the last trip and no failure to feed
Interspersed 5 WWB with 5 WT&D had failure to feed after the WWB was shot
Quit using the WWB and finished up the box of 50 WT&D and had only 1 failure to feed
CONCLUSION
The higher grain load worked better when used exclusively (only 1 failure to feed) but was it due to the 147 grains or the gun getting 'broken in?'
I can't say for sure but for now I will be using a higher grain load.
 
#37 ·
UPDATE
Went to Walmart and bought
- Winchester W Train & Defend 147 grain
Took my Winchester white box 115 grain and the newly purchase W T&D to the range
Put 5 rounds of WWB in the mag, gripped the gun tighter than on the last trip and had and immediate failure to feed.
Put 5 rounds of WT&D in the mag, gripped the gun tighter than the last trip and no failure to feed
Interspersed 5 WWB with 5 WT&D had failure to feed after the WWB was shot
Quit using the WWB and finished up the box of 50 WT&D and had only 1 failure to feed
CONCLUSION
The higher grain load worked better when used exclusively (only 1 failure to feed) but was it due to the 147 grains or the gun getting 'broken in?'
I can't say for sure but for now I will be using a higher grain load.
It will likely get better as you shoot the gun (both more break in and you becoming more familiar.) Try using 147's for the next 100 or so, then move down to 124's. You may never get back to 115gr blasting ammo for proper function with the stock RSA.

I agree with BuckyP that you can spring the gun lighter for any load you want to shoot. If 115gr are a lot cheaper, more available in your area, you can consider something like this when you want to shoot the light stuff, I would recommend the 13lb option:

http://www.glockmeister.com/Glockme...-G17-22-31-34-35-and-37/productinfo/G4SS17CS/

If the gun is destined for your night stand as well as a range toy, I suspect you will find Premium SD ammo to function fine in that gun with the stock RSA, just in case though, stick with 124gr or higher for that application.
 
#39 ·
Either that or Glock fanboys can't admit Glock can sometimes turn out a junk gun. When a Glock has a problem but not your other guns, the Glock is the problem.

IMHO, Glock is about as reliable as other mid-level plastic guns.
 
#38 ·
If you are used to shooting a 21, and are still having FTF issues with hotter ammo, I'm leaning towards it probably being the gun.

Maybe find a more experienced shooter to run a mag or two to see if they have the same problem, if so, it might need a trip back to Glock.
 
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