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Do you use a laser on your carry gun?

12K views 227 replies 97 participants last post by  Lt. Donn 
#1 ·
Thinking that a self defense situation could easily occur at night, and might well happen too fast to bring my gun to a normal aiming position, I installed a Crimson Trace laser on both of my EDC's. I've practiced shooting without aiming, and while I am starting to improve with my 9mm semi auto, I am not making much progress with my j-frame snubbie, so the laser is almost essential for other than bad breath shooting distance. My only concern would be if the laser failed or the battery died unexpectedly. I wondered how many on the forum use a laser as well.
 
#77 ·
Sidelines (range), sure; offensively, okay; defensively, no.


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The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.--Sir Winston Churchill
 
#78 ·
I don't like having a laser on my handgun for one main reason...if I had to shoot someone in rightful self defense, and that bad guy died, 9 out of 10 chance I still would have to go to court, face a Judge and Jury, that may possibly have mostly Democrat liberals, encounter an anti-gun prosecuting lawyer(s), that will try to use any means possible that made me look like the bad guy, especially with extra hi-tech devices on my gun, to make sure I shoot to kill, and make sure I killed.
So, I say leave the laser stuff for law enforcement, and military....Hey, even they are now today having problems for shooting bad guys.
There is just too much liberal political correctness, that made this society unstable.....Please Vote this November.
 
#80 ·
No lasers on pistols here. I tried one on a .38 Special revolver but took it off. Figure distances would be close for SD.

I use a larger pistol (caliber and size) that is better suited for distance and more rounds to spread around.

I bought a Kel Tek P2000 Gen 2 and I can't get a cheek weld on it, it's too skinny. I put a laser on it and I just can't shoot it enough. It is a blast, fast and accurate and the most fun I've had to shoot in years.
I'm going to get a laser for my Sub 2k also.. But it's really the only gun I've seen a need for one on.
 
#81 ·
Lasers don't hinder any normal action of unholstering or using the sights. So why not train normally and have a possible advantage for the multitude of situations already presented here? If it's needed and works, you could live. If you don't need it, or it doesn't work, you aren't penalized at all. Your not shaving the sight off the gun:animlol:.

If you have a weapon light mounted, does that mean it HAS to be on? And you ONLY train at night? What if SHTF in the daytime? You could Die!!

What if I put on a bayonet? Can I only stab people now?
 
#93 ·
A laser is like any other firearm mounted attachment. Some people like them cause they are tacticool. Others like them because they find them useful or as a alternative sighting system. Others dont like them at all.
Ive owned a couple before. Never liked them much for what i tried them for, but wont talk down on them as i know some have found them useful. If if works for you thats all that matters.
 
#94 ·
Don't think it's pro...
I didn't think so, but I suspect that someone who has never trained with a laser can't understand that some folks who have might not have to spend time chasing a dot around.

Really get educated or go hangout in the Okie Corral where they don't know guns and love skirts that post....
Welcome to GT..
Classy.

Or give they're position away. ie: dusty, smoky, hazy, foggy environment. No laser's for ours.
Probably should throw away your flashlight, too, then.

Depending on your activation type, the laser goes on when you're ready to fire and only if you feel it's prudent. It's not like it waves a big "LOOK AT ME" sign while you're trying to hide in the corner of your "dusty, smoky, hazy, foggy" bedroom waiting for the cops to show up.
 
#95 ·
Have one on Ruger Lcr. Have had lasers on my Glocks removed them . prefer to use sights in place of lasers. It's possible that relying on lasers could cause a problem if it failed in a critical situation. Use Mepros on all my Glocks.
 
#96 ·
I don't own a laser or weapon mounted light. I do have a good number of defensive flashlights. I do practice at night using the lights. In my world the more simple the gun system the better. and the more practice the better . My 1911's have a safety . but I never ever think about using the safety... when my finger goes to the trigger the safety has been turned off... that is all the technology I want to deal with in a defensive pistol. I have no problem with other people using a laser. feel free to use what works for you.. I tend to go old school rugged and stupid simple.
 
#97 ·
Aside from a few home defense scenarios where I am going to be holding a long gun with a red dot. Exactly what self defense situations are there where you are going to be hiding waiting to shoot and concerned about giving your position away? Self defense means you are being attacked. If you are being attacked you are not in hiding. If you are hiding waiting to shoot that is what in the service we called an ambush. Good luck selling that as self defense. In any event I have yet to see a laser without an on and off switch.
 
#98 ·
As someone who has carried a few years with a laser and a few more without and has fired thousands of rounds both ways. The flaws I see in the laser are:
It is slower, with a laser you draw, point and look for the dot, realize the dot is on target and shoot. With irons you draw acquire the sights point and shoot. You don't have to find the dot and assess. Thinking is always slower than a reflex.

You can't lead with a laser, you only see the dot if it is on target. Something moving fast and across where you need to lead the target is not going to work. Your always going to be shooting where the target was.

I really don't see batteries as a problem. Batteries have come a long way and they are getting only better. In a world where we are recharging our phones so often its not a problem. Personally when I chamber checked the gun every morning, I always checked the laser at the same time. I checked that it worked and that it was still indexed with the sights.

The Pros: You can shoot an aimed shot in a lot of non standard positions. This is big when you may realize you are in a fight by being knocked to the ground. I shoot a fair bit but I don't think I've tried to use my sights from sprawled and dazed on the ground.

Old eyes, my ability to see a distance is unchanged pretty much from my teens, about 20/200. Which is correctable with glasses. What has deteriorated since about 40 is my ability to see close. In one of my private lessons the instructor told me I should be doing magazine changes in my work space up close. I told him truthfully my work space was farther away. Because I don't see that well up close anymore. My ability to focus my eyes has moved out continuously as I aged and now with my bifocals my eyes focus past the the sights of my gun. Which means my sights are nothing but a blur. I've had to switch to the lower lenses to focus on the sights. Past 12 yards targets are just a blur. A laser solves this. I just use the upper lenses and I see just fine.

What the laser is, it is a sighting system. What it is not a replacement for the fundamentals of shooting. If you are missing because of poor trigger control, pushing, flinching or heeling. You are going to do the same thing with a laser or iron sights. Although if you have a shooting partner a lot of those problems are going to be very visible to an observer because the laser will follow the whole follow through of the flinch or heeling, not just the first few inches of it.
 
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#125 ·
As someone who has carried a few years with a laser and a few more without and has fired thousands of rounds both ways. The flaws I see in the laser are:
It is slower, with a laser you draw, point and look for the dot, realize the dot is on target and shoot. With irons you draw acquire the sights point and shoot. You don't have to find the dot and assess. Thinking is always slower than a reflex.
In the tens of thousands of rounds I trained, with laser grips, I'd always sight in the dot to be right above the front NS. And I always trained to look through the sights either shooting with laser on or off. So training was always looking through the sights no matter what. At that point the laser becomes an additional tool on the pistol that I'm not dependent on. I think some think that with one mounted the stock or NS simply fall off the pistol.
 
#99 ·
Time to revisit lasers, and cut through the bull crap. No theory. Simply real life scenarios. If you've never been in a situation where someone is shooting at you, it may be hard to understand what I'm going to say. In our department, we have had several active shooter situations. One officer took several bullets to the center mass of his vest. He said that he drew his weapon when he saw the assailant had a pistol in his hand aimed at him and actually had one bullet hit him before he had his weapon out of the holster. He started backing up, very rapidly, and returned fire, eliminating the threat. He tried to aim center mass while rapidly doing the Michael Jackson Moon Walk, and survived. I can promise you, a laser would be of no use under these circumstances. Only hours of training when muscle memory enables you to bring the weapon up properly positioned and aimed at the threat. And in daylight the lasers that I've used are almost worthless. Not the same as Red Dot sights (Eotech), which have enabled law enforcement Patrol Rifles to bring a whole new element of accuracy to the officer. And also remember, shooting at cardboard targets on the Range is totally different than returning fire at someone that is trying to kill you. Having said this, lasers are an excellent training tool in a dry fire situation, or, when light enables you to see it, to pick up back habits on the Range. And Red Dot sights seem to be pretty effective in the various pistol matches where they are allowed. I have a Trijicon red dot sight on a .45 acp FNP tactical, which is also fitted with a silencer. There may be some practical uses for this combination (with or without the can) in both law enforcement or civilian situations. But this is not a laser. Big difference. And it's indexed with the iron sights also, same as my Patrol Rifle.
 
#100 · (Edited)
Ok, so I'm very curious, and everyone is entitled to their opinion...

Can any laser nay-sayer find a reason not to have one on your CCW weapon but not assume:
(1) The regular sights get removed
(2) It's the ONLY way you train
(3) That they are ALWAYS on

Every negative response had revolved around these assumptions.
The pro-laser people are explaining it is an ADDITIONAL sighting technique, to be used if the situation does not match your iron sight (reactionary) training. Putting a laser on your weapon doesn't stop your trained reflexes. In fact, if you are in any situation I can think of that a laser is useful you have also had precious time to think about it. Any situation that reactionary shooting makes a difference would be also perfect for regular (or night) sights. Lasers (to me) are a secondary advantage. Why eliminate the option?

Interestingly, most gun owners prepare for every situation possible (search tacti-cool AR for a laugh...) But in this case the nay-sayers are REMOVING a possible advantage, without explaining a true downside (less the assumptions made above), and the court thing is just silly.
 
#101 ·
Not everyone will like them and use them. Its no different from any other firearm attachment. Some wont find it an advantage. Just like not everyone has a flashlight mounted to their firearm either. Its all in what people are comfortable with. Some people will find certain things that work for them while others wont.
There is no right or wrong answer. Each individual is different.
If they work for you and others great! If not ni biggie. Its not a necessity.
 
#104 ·
From my perspective, I never said don't have them on your gun. If you have a couple of extra bucks and want them, go for it. I said that I personally didn't like them except for the reasons I gave; training, learning good trigger control, if the situation so developed, defensive shooting from a barricade when the light is such that the laser can be seen. In sunlight I didn't find them visible. And if you're so interested, read my comments concerning a conversation with Jim Cirrillo when he was representing Crimson Trace.
 
#106 · (Edited)
I alternate between my G43 and my 1st generation Ruger LCP for my EDC. G43 has "speed sights" on it and I am able to shoot it very, very well. I have a very solid understanding of and I practice the fundamentals every time that I am at the range or that I train.

The 1st generation Ruger LCP has "sights" that are, to be charitable, WORTHLESS. This is a point shooting only pistol, good for COM out to maybe 5 to 7 yards. I recently installed a Viridian green laser on the LCP. This actually allows me to extend the range of the LCP considerably; I am good out to 20-plus yards with the LCP-Viridian combo on head-sized targets. Not as quick to acquire as standard sights, but impressive accuracy. The laser takes the place of decent sights on the LCP. Besides, the psychological effects of a pulsating green light may just give me an extra second of advantage over a bad guy.
 
#107 ·
Tried em for a while and found that "chasing the dot" slowed me down in every situation.

^^This! Speed is life. Learn how to point shoot.
Bingo, I found that working on point shooting gave me the same results in hits, but faster.

That said, should a gun I purchase have a set of crimson trace grips on them, I'm not gonna rip them off or anything. A tool is a tool, useful when needed, ignored when not.
 
#109 ·
Several have asked if I have a laser on my carry gun. No. I had a couple, compliments of Crimson Trace; a S&W light wt revolver in .38 and .357 magnum and a .45 1911. Used the sights in practice but in my hands, slowed me down in most drills. And the .38 was a bear to shoot. I sold both of the pistols and the laser sights went along with them. When behind a barricade when time is not of the utmost importance, and the lighting situation was favorable to seeing the laser, they worked fine. I have Trijicon night sights on my carry weapons, with the bright "O" orange front sight and green dot rear sight. I carry a Wilson Ultralight in .45 that has the Wilson green dot front sight. I like the Trijicon sights better, but at this time they don't make this sight that is adaptable to the Wilson. Have no plans to add laser sights to any of my carry guns. I do a lot of dry fire practice with a SIRT laser enhanced pistol duplicating the Glock 17, and it has a red/green laser combination that is excellent. You can turn the green laser off when you only want the red, which is the one showing where the bullet theoretically went. The green, when activated, shows any movement from the time the trigger is pressed.
 
#112 ·
Sorry Doc, prior USAF, can you be a bit more specific on how to find the link.
Hoff; on this Web, Glock Talk, go to the discussion "Carrying the 1911" and I detailed a conversation I had with Jim Cirillo concerning lasers He also mentioned that in New York, he was seldom in the dark when doing all of his work, including all of the stakeouts, for New York is almost always pretty lit up. So conventional sights were effective. He was in the Crimson Trace booth at a SHOT show, discussing lasers and also signing copies of his book.
 
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