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Anyone tried Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator ammo in their G42?

4K views 35 replies 8 participants last post by  WeeWilly 
#1 · (Edited)
Just as the title asks...
If you have tried it, what are your thoughts?
Reliable?
accurate?
Recoil?
thanks for replies!
Check out this video. Looks like good stuff!
 
#3 ·
I am currently running the Underwood plus p loading of Xtreme Penetrators. I sucked up the cost of 6 boxes. I ran 5 boxes to test for reliability and accuracy. 100 percent reliable and very accurate. Recoil isn't bad. Real expensive but I love em. FYI.. I also bought a few boxes of Underwood Loadings of the Hornady XTP bullets in plus P and had SEVERAL ftf. Would recommend the plus p Xtreme Penetrator from Underwood. I posted a review a while back
 
#5 ·
The Lehigh round is not as effective as a good hollow point round no matter the caliber but is better than a fmj. The value of a Lehigh round is that it is a good compromise between a hollow point and fmj. Also the .380 caliber doesn't have the velocity needed to make the fluted bullet design (or any bullet) truly effective. Stop looking for a special bullet in the .380 caliber and start practicing head shots!
 
#6 ·
I disagree. I'm not an expert but I have compared the gel test between different hollow points, FMJ , and the XPs. The XPs cause as much damage as a hollow point in the gel. And they cannot fail because they don't have to expand and open up to cause as much damage as a fully functioning hollow point. And they don't over penetrate like FMJS but they go deeper than hollow points. And lastly I don't think it's best to aim for the head, in a stressful situation I'm going to aim for the biggest part of the body ...usually in a gun fight, the first person to get shot will lose the gun fight. Again, I'm no expert, I've just read a lot info and this is strictly my opinion. In my 9mm I do go with a hollow point, but 380s are weaker and the XPs give u an advantage in my opinion...MY opinion lol CHEERS
 
#7 ·
The jury is still out on how effective either the XP or the XD ammo is, as in reality no one has ever been shot with it to prove it good or bad, beyond this all is theory. For me the value of the XP is its ability to defeat soft body armor when shot from high velocity calibers such as the 357 Magnum, 357 Sig and 10 mm. With increased use of armor by BG and terrorists the possibility of facing someone wearing a vest has now become a threat that did not exist even just a few years ago. For me the value of the XP out of my 357 Sig is increased tactical penetration which could be needed in certain situations. My .380 is loaded with Speer Gold Dots which have a proven record of reliable performance.
 
#12 ·
After some expensive testing of the UW 90gr +P version of the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator in my G42 (faultless feed), I have decided to use it as my EDC round with my G42. Like all my other experience with UW ammo, it is a quality product.

I have started reloading the bullets into some loads I am trying to develop that will get as close as I can to the UW load, to help cut the cost with my practice ammo (I like to get as much practice with the same load that I carry as possible). The bullets are still very expensive from Lehigh but it is a major reduction in cost over shooting straight UW factory, which at $1.40 a round is a non-starter for an old retired guy like me.
 
#13 ·
If I were going to carry this type of bullet for general SD I would carry the Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defender not the Xtreme Penetrator after all that is what Lehigh designed the XD round for. The XD offers a better balance of penetration and energy dump and Underwood puts the power behind it that is lacking in other .380 ammo brands. I would feel comfortable carrying the XD in .380 mainly because of the Underwood enhanced performance.
 
#14 ·
If I were going to carry this type of bullet for general SD I would carry the Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defender not the Xtreme Penetrator after all that is what Lehigh designed the XD round for. The XD offers a better balance of penetration and energy dump and Underwood puts the power behind it that is lacking in other .380 ammo brands.
I agree on using XDs in any other caliber, except the 380. From what I've seen and read the XPs don't over penetrate, they do go about 18 inches in gel which is perfect IMO
 
#16 ·
If I were going to carry this type of bullet for general SD I would carry the Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defender not the Xtreme Penetrator after all that is what Lehigh designed the XD round for. The XD offers a better balance of penetration and energy dump and Underwood puts the power behind it that is lacking in other .380 ammo brands. I would feel comfortable carrying the XD in .380 mainly because of the Underwood enhanced performance.
I think this idea has merit. I haven't seen the gel tests yet on the XD bullet in 380 from either Lehigh or UW. It seems to me that Lehigh may be slowly rolling things over to XD which appears to be better in most respects. If I see a few credible gel tests that jive, I will definitely switch, which is no cost free decision on my part, more testing, ugh.

Until I see the results, I am going to be like a government bureaucrat and go with the sure thing. :)
 
#18 ·
That the XD design is a next gen kind of thing. You take everything you learned, design a better bullet, you don't want to Osborn yourself, so you slowly introduce it into your line.

I have no inside line on any of this, completely a guess which may have no merit in reality. :)
 
#19 ·
As far as the G42, I had trouble limp-wristing right out of the box. The wound channels it made in synthetic ballistic gelatin were unimpressive to me:



I had much better success with the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defense:





As far as the MAC goes, with the Xtreme Defense, I suspect his data is flawed. The velocity is too slow, for his bb calibration test (490 fps vs. 590-600 fps).
 
#20 ·
In any event I see the XD and XP as both being superior to the fmj round for SD and the XP being superior to everything for tactical penetration. But still not sold on either of these rounds as being superior to a good HP round for SD. Bottom line these rounds have no street cred and without that do not get carried by me.
 
#23 ·
I have shot a box of Underwood's 1100fps regular loading of the XP in my 42. Shot and cycled great, very clean, can tell it's a little warmer than the Gold Dots and Fiocchi I'm used to shooting, chrono'd right at 1100fps.

All of the brass does show noticeable case bulge/Glock smiley, though. This is not the "+P" loading. Has anyone else experienced anything similar?
 
#26 ·
I haven't shot the non-+P loadings from either UW or Lehigh, so I can't compare those to the UW +P, but the UW +P definitely bulges the cases. Unfortunately, I only noticed it after I picked up the cases, so I can't say if there was any difference in this area between my Kahr and my G42.

I would put it on par with the bulge I get running max book loads through my G20 with a stock barrel, none of them showed a smile (crease above the bulge), that is, none showed a bulge so bad that it compromised the case integrity. All the cases resized fine and have been reloaded a few cycles now.

On the rounds I have reloaded using XP bullets and Lehighs max load data for BE86, the cases look normal after firing, so the UW +P load definitely is running hotter, which makes sense given it is delivering 100+ fps additional velocity.
 
#30 ·
Just how thick is a human, from the front? From the side it may approach 11 inches.
I think where many people are at is they take seriously what the FBI says is their standard measuring stick for terminal performance. They have a lot of smart people thinking about this stuff.
 
#31 ·
The 12-18 inch goldilocks zone is merely a yardstick. I had asked Mas Ayoob his opinion on this very type of ammunition. His response regarding ballistic gelatin was this:


"Good luck, Buck.

Whether the formula for ballistic gelatin was 20% or 10%, there was always the issue that ballistic gel is a homogeneous substance and the human body is a heterogeneous substance in which the human-like swine muscle tissue Dr. Martin Fackler's gelatin protocol was developed to duplicate did not give the same resistance as skin, bone, cartitlege, solid abdominal viscera, etc.

The early 147 grain subsonic Winchester OSM worked great in gelatin, but had "good news and bad news" performance in actual shootings around the country, which led to the development of both the .40 S&W cartridge and today's much more effective high-tech 147 grain 9mm bullets.

The reason the "stopping power debate" seems to be eternal is that it's simply a multi-dimensional issue with so many variables that I for one don't think it can ever be truly quantified in a "test setting." What was the toxicology screen on the man who took the bullets? How much of an adrenaline high was he on? (I have yet to meet a forensic pathologist or toxicologist who can show me a way to measure internally-generated epinephrine, post-mortem.) And, like alcohol, epinephrine affects different people in different ways, which cannot be conclusively analyzed from autopsy. Much of "stopping power speed" is determined by what is going on in the mind and the body of the attacker, neither of which can be conclusively quantified after the shooting is over. There is no study that quantifies exactly which organs were hit by which bullets at what point in the gunfight, let alone differentiating whether the "heart shot" clipped the edge of the pericardium or entered at the right atrium as opposed to the left ventricle (yes, there seems to be a difference).

For decades now, I've recommended selecting loads that work well both in gelatin AND in street performance quantified after numerous actual, investigated shootings. THEN, work on what REALLY seems to win gunfights: tactics, ability to swiftly (and if necessary, continuously) hit the parts of the body you need to shut down while firing under adverse circumstances, and an understanding of deadly force law that will allow you to deliver those hits without hesitation and not fire until you are sure of that."
 
#33 · (Edited)
Just how thick is a human, from the front? From the side it may approach 11 inches.
Of course 11 inches of penetration is adequate with any caliber and with the little .380 its about the limit without the tradeoff of less expansion for more penetration. For a round such as the .380 with its limited energy the GD round offers a good balance of penetration and energy. But the best conversation involving the .380 in a SD situation is one involving the skill of the shooter not bullet performance. Never depend on a mouse gun for SD but rather as an aid to help escape from a bad situation.
 
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