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.40 is dying?

47K views 1K replies 152 participants last post by  fortyofforty 
#1 ·
This was my response today at an lgs while I was fondling a g27. Searching for a New daily carry and I'm looking hard at 357 sig and .40 to get the job done. During the conversation the guy behind the counter tells me that because the fbi has quit using the 40 that I should consider 9mm. Said the 40 is now a dying cartridge. Wow? Really? Idk, I just ain't buying it..
 
#503 ·
Because he says so. Tissue disruption. Where are the medical journals that mention "tissue disruption"? I haven't seen anything from this decade. LOL. Unbelievable, Hermey. If we're making up numbers, we can say the 9mm penetrates 20% less than .40 S&W.

Here's what Sydney Vail, M.D., FACS, chief of the division of trauma surgery and surgical critical care and director of the tactical medicine program at the Maricopa Medical Center in Phoenix. Dr. Vail is also medical director of Tactical Trauma Immediate Response (Tac-TIR) Group, Cowtown, Peoria, AZ; director of the SWAT Tactical Medical Program for Arizona DPS; and a senior instructor for the International School of Tactical Medicine, wrote about the decision:

Although not a dentist, he might know some things about wound ballistics.

Here's what Buford Boone wrote about this issue:



If you have to ask who Buford Boone is, you wouldn't understand what he wrote, anyway.
 
#504 ·
Because he says so. Tissue disruption. Where are the medical journals that mention "tissue disruption"? I haven't seen anything from this decade. LOL. Unbelievable, Hermey. If we're making up numbers, we can say the 9mm penetrates 20% less than .40 S&W.
Destruction of more tissue obviously leads to greater probability of incapacitation, which, of course, obviously, is in humans a combination of physiological and psychological effects. Since you haven't got a clue about physics, obviously, you have no clue where 25-30% more tissue destruction comes from -- so you make up your own silly numbers based on your silly notions.

Here's what Sydney Vail, M.D., FACS, chief of the division of trauma surgery and surgical critical care and director of the tactical medicine program at the Maricopa Medical Center in Phoenix. Dr. Vail is also medical director of Tactical Trauma Immediate Response (Tac-TIR) Group, Cowtown, Peoria, AZ; director of the SWAT Tactical Medical Program for Arizona DPS; and a senior instructor for the International School of Tactical Medicine, wrote about the decision:



Although not a dentist, he might know some things about wound ballistics.

Here's what Buford Boone wrote about this issue:


If you have to ask who Buford Boone is, you wouldn't understand what he wrote, anyway.
Whoever says that more tissue destruction does not increase probability of incapacitation is clueless; whoever says that less bullet deflection is not an advantage in self-defense is also clueless; whoever says that better barrier penetration (including bone) is not more effective in self-defense is clueless -- like you.
 
#505 ·
Blah blah blah. More tissue disruption. Slightly more. Slightly more effective. Slightly. So slight it's far outweighed by shot placement. Far, far outweighed. Anyone who argue otherwise is an internidiot. Obviously.
 
#507 ·
Too bad, so sad. The 9mm is clearly king. LOL. Why some here can't comprehend reality is beyond understanding. All handgun rounds. Some people act like it's comparing a popgun to a 120mm cannon. They have obviously never shot anyone, nor been in a shooting. Internet commandos.
 
#509 ·
Never let physics, ballistics, or medical facts get in the way of your elfin fantasies.
 
#517 ·
The .40 has been losing popularity [civilian and LE] for a couple years now. It no doubt had a good run, but like the others [.40S&W, .357SIG, .45GAP, 10mm] it is destined for the B Team.

Someday a new pistol caliber will come along and enjoy the same century long success as the great pistols calibers of our time [i.e. .380, 9mm, and 45ACP].
 
#518 ·
It's losing popularity, from a high level of popularity, because for most people it's more difficult to shoot .40 cal accurately and fast, compared to 9mm. However, there will always be those who prefer superior terminal ballistics of .40 cal compared to 9mm -- even if shooting 9mm is somewhat easier for most people.
 
#523 ·
The real world can be confusing. The .380 has been killing folks for 100+ years.
 
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#533 ·
This tread is still going?

Oh well, there is one thing certain. Even after all the FBI agents have been issued their 9mm Glocks, there will still be a few hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers armed with .40 cal pistols.

The FBI only has about 36,000 employees. Approximately 14,000 are special agents. The rest are professional staff and support personnel. Not all of them are armed.
 
#534 · (Edited)
Where .40 is losing popularity is mostly in the gun shops, where these days there are a lot of newbies buying guns, for whom any caliber starting with a "4" is just a bit too much or a bit too scary for them. OR, all those buyers who feel they only need a pocket pistol for protection and can't fit anything with caliber starting with a "4" into their tight fashion jeans pockets.

Sub-compact and pocket guns have been quite the rage over the last few years. Sales in these categories have BOOMED. And those pistols are predominantly chambered in 9mm or .380auto. So, 9mm has gained considerably in sales vs. .40. .40S&W is a caliber best suited to mid-size and full-size pistols which, I think, aren't selling nearly as strongly in any caliber vs. sub-compacts and pocket pistols.

There are still hundreds of thousands of .40S&W pistols in service in both the public and private sectors and there will remain so well into the future.

While my much preferred daily carry is M&P40 or M&P40 Compact (both of which are marvelously wonderful and comfortable to shoot), I don't mind carrying 9mm or .45auto.

On occasion I will carry a Commander in .45auto, and every once in a long while I'll carry a G17RFT or a G19, pistols which I carried before I switched to the M&P forties. These are all good choices and I feel well protected with any of them, but mostly with the M&P40, which launches .40S&W so softly it feels like a 9mm, carries 16 rounds, and enjoys some advantage in terminal ballistics vs. 9mm.
 
#538 ·
Anyone who has taken the time to go out back and shoot a jug of water, a cinder block, a steel plate, or take your pick, with each will not get lost in the data, or misled in a gun shop...

...the facts reveal themselves and the differences become abundantly clear.

The .40 is, and will remain, alive and well in the possession of those non-trendy, rational, practical handgun owners like myself.
 
#539 ·
A lot of trend-followers jumped on the .40 train in the 1990s, without understanding what it could do, or what problems it would supposedly solve. It's still a handgun round. I have no problems with it, but it is merely one choice among many good ones.
 
#540 ·
Is Forty willing to take a shot from Qs 40? I doubt it.
Is Q willing to take a shot from Fortys 9mm? I doubt it.
Heck, I don't know anyone willing to take a shot from a 22LR.

They ALL work. Just shoot what you shoot best.

Guys, you're in a pizzing contest, and didn't even notice the headwind is getting your pants wet.
 
#556 ·
For most of us, aim small, shoot small, miss small applies regardless of your caliber choice.
My point was that in a self-defense situation I have to make every limited shot count instead of assuming that I have the legal luxury of emptying my mag at some threat -- otherwise, of course, 9mm works just fine (as does .380 etc.) and those high-capacity mags come in handy....
 
#563 · (Edited by Moderator)
My point was that in a self-defense situation I have to make every limited shot count instead of assuming that I have the legal luxury of emptying my mag at some threat -- otherwise, of course, 9mm works just fine (as does .380 etc.) and those high-capacity mags come in handy....
BUT........ARE YOU PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH TO CARRY A Glock .40?????

 
#557 ·
Where were you when 9's were bouncing off windshields, and pissing off bad guys instead of incapacitating them?

How about after it got spanked post Miami gunfight, all these years its been a girls gun while the .40 was king.

And now that technology has saved the day and the NWO NATO-phites got their round back for the feds, oh hurray, now they can hire more women and weaker shooters!

Bear in mind the same technology that allows a 9mm +P to theoretically equivocate the standard .40 also applies to .40...

I luv my 19, but to compare it to the 23... ridiculous.
 
#559 ·
.40S&W is not "dying"; the sales are down, but the caliber is not "dying".

9mm sales ARE booming. Primarily due to the many newbies buying their first guns and the incredible boom in popularity of pocket pistols.

No need for comments that are intended to poke and inflame.
 
#565 ·
He continued his class after being blown away by a 40 S&W. He could have been shot by a feminine 9mm by the way he reacted?
 
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#570 ·
Are you acknowledging that Ellifritzs study may be be real world valid?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
#572 · (Edited)
Platform selection is the key.

If you're choosing a pocket gun or a sub-compact gun, 9mm is a more suitable caliber for a gun that size, though some people can handle 40 well in that small of a gun, most people can't.

If you're choosing a mid-size to full-size pistol, .40, even .45auto can be a very suitable caliber.

My M&P40 launches .40S&W and feels like I'm shooting a 9mm.... Fast, easy, soft.

My STI Edge launches .40S&W and feels like I'm shooting a .380auto... Amazing.

My Browning HighPowers in .40S&W are also very nice handling pistols for caliber.

These guns were designed to handle .40S&W caliber with ease.

My G23 Gen 3, on the other hand, does not handle .40S&W nearly as comfortably (for me), thus I prefer 9mm in that particular platform and would choose a G19 over a G23.

If it was all about fast, easy, effortless shooting, we'd all be rushing to .25autos. If it was all about bullet weight and terminal ballistics, we'd all be shooting .44mag, .45auto, etc.

Pick the platform size that is suitable to your needs and then the caliber you prefer. 9, 40, 45 are all excellent calibers, depending on the particular platform you choose.

The current craze is for very small pistols. Sales of pocket guns are far outstripping sales of mid- and full-size pistols, therefore, 9mm sales are booming as well.

.40S&W is not dying. It will never be as big a seller as 9mm is, but so what? .45auto is nowhere as hot as 9mm is either. .40S&W is a great, soft-shooting, excellent caliber if you have the right platform for it. Same with .45auto. And the terminal ballistics are still better than 9mm.
 
#575 ·
Platform selection is the key.

If you're choosing a pocket gun or a sub-compact gun, 9mm is a more suitable caliber for a gun that size, though some people can handle 40 well in that small of a gun, most people can't.

If you're choosing a mid-size to full-size pistol, .40, even .45auto can be a very suitable caliber.

My M&P40 launches .40S&W and feels like I'm shooting a 9mm.... Fast, easy, soft.
Indeed. If I had to carry a small pistol, 9mm (or .38 special +P snub) would do (with my fingers crossed).
 
#601 ·
And no one ever went into battle wishing they had less ammunition.
 
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