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Morganton NC 2016 Prelims Posted

2K views 39 replies 11 participants last post by  Comrade Bork 
#1 ·
#6 ·
I didn't make it in 2015 and can't remember as far back as 2014, is the setup at Morganton always 45' max? I know stages have been in different areas but I can't remember if they ever could get 60-75' there.
The prize is $75 for which GSSF gets no additional entry fee to pay for it?

It has to be added to both Civilian and Guardian, so $150.

Times the current 55 match s, $8,250 needs to be added to their award budget with again, no additional entry fee to pay for it.

So, probably not UNLESS GSSF increased entry fees across the board, probably to $30 per entry.

Who is in favor of that?
 
#7 ·
My suggestion did not even consider the additional cost to GSSF. It is not the prize money but another chance to compete on a level playing field.
How about reducing the super senior award to $50.00 and add super-super senior for $50.00. That should not stress GSSF budget too much.
 
#9 ·
My thought was adding a stand alone division like the Girls side match, maybe as a trial and call it the "Glock Senior Side Match." Make it 65 or older with winner getting $100 and for every 10 entries a $50 random. Under that format it would be self supporting.
 
#10 ·
Glock is doing the GGSM because they are specifically trying to draw more female shooters of all ages.

Whereas, Senior males are probably already coming to the matches.

The question is, would a GGSM-style Senior match draw enough NEW Senior shooters to justify it?

GSSF would probably have to study their own demographics -- if and when they can spare the time from conducting their a-match-or-two-every-weekend match schedule,
 
#11 ·
I belong in the super super senior + and am in agreement with DannyR. I compete with all of the younger folks and really don't have any issues with the prize allocation. I figure if we are good enough, then we will win a prize here or there ... and have done so ... of course, I usually count on a random (or two ....).

I was totally in agreement with the GGSM and certainly think it was a good thing to have something extra for the ladies. If fact, if they wanted to put another category or two under the GGSM that would be a great idea. We need to encourage more of our ladies to competition shooting.

I go to these matches for the enjoyment of shooting, seeing good competition and occasionally seeing a few people I know.

C
 
#12 ·
I guess most misread my attempt at a little self depreciating humor.
There was a story in the Glock Report of what was believed to be the oldest person {87 years old] actively competing in GSSF matches. That recognition may indeed have resulted in some past their prime to shoot a match for the first time or encourage other senior citizens to resume.
My post was in jest, but how about just listing those over 70 for bragging rights [creating a non prize sub category]. A $2.00 plaque would be nice.
No one seriously attends these matches to win prizes to pay for their practice ammo, travel, food, lodging, match fees etc.
Lighten up a little and not be so tight with GSSF funds. We are the reason the matches are held.
Glock would not be so prominent in the market place without these matches and our participation.
Every avenue that increases participation in the shooting sports is a good thing for each of us and certainly for a handgun manufacturer.

DannC
 
#13 ·
Its a well know fact that the skills of an athlete up to the age of late thirties are much better than those after forty. Even golfers have their own senior tour.
That being said, the chances of a Glock competitor over the age of 65 winning a gun in a division after becoming a master is very minute. I know of only one in the last two years and that person won from 7th place.
A Senior Division (62 or older) for men and women might not draw new shooters, but it would probably add more entries to the match total and provide a division for those with somewhat diminished skills. Give away a gun for every 15 entries and it would be self supporting. Just food for thought
 
#14 ·
The budget is set by Mr Gaston Glock in Austria and must be followed. Of course, GSSF might be able to eliminate one match, possibly your favorite, in order to fund extra awards. Regardless of your age, you have the same chance of winning a random pistol as anyone else. I will never place first, but I still compete. In 52 matches I have won 2 pistols, one random and one for a special drawing for those using a G37 (back in 2004). At age 70, I shot my personal best GSSF season in 2014.

By the way, Butch Barton is well over 50 and has won the Gunny match more times than anyone else. Al Sinclair became a Master long after he passed his 60th birthday and is still extremely competitive.
 
#15 ·
I am with you DannyR

wlkjr
I am just over 60 so I should give up-Not likely. :)

It would be nice for our older folks like 65+, are even 70 to have a better more even chance. It is 10 shooters for a gun, 15 for a $100.00 and 17 for $75.00 so in fairness to Glock they would have to add another division-not likely unless there is an out pouring of 70+ shooters. The future of any sport is junior and lady shooters joining. It is all up to Glock if they wish and if it will work for them, maybe a survey is in order??
.

Alex. sorry I could not make it-still under the weather from the heat.

MIke
 
#17 ·
Comrade Bork, you seem to be the official voice of GSSF and a "bean counter". You responded not with any reason for why another competition category should not be added, but threw out numbers to show it was not financially possible.
I would like to know if GSSF is self supporting or does it require funds from Glock Inc. It really does not matter as Glock Inc. is I'm sure writing it off as advertising. To use an old NASCAR analogy, win on Sunday sale on Monday.
I have always been impressed by the payout by Glock in pistols and cash. In my better days I won a pistol and several hundred dollars when the A, B, C, D classes were used to equally distribute prizes. I was very surprised to learn at the 2015 Morganton, NC match [had not shot any matches since 2004] that system had been abandon for the random awarding of pistols and cash. A solution maybe in returning to that system and simply add E, F, G etc. classes as dictated by number of competitors. Everyone then competes in their own little zone of ability and sometime we get lucky. I don't buy very many lottery tickets.
Not trying to start a war but we can do numbers if you like. 700 [estimated at Morganton] competitors times $5.00 = $3500.00.
That buys a lot of Glocks. Actual production cost has been estimated by many to be less than $200.00 per pistol. How about a Superb Senior category and a plaque.?
 
#21 ·
Comrade Bork, you seem to be the official voice of GSSF and a "bean counter". You responded not with any reason for why another competition category should not be added, but threw out numbers to show it was not financially possible.
I would like to know if GSSF is self supporting or does it require funds from Glock Inc. It really does not matter as Glock Inc. is I'm sure writing it off as advertising. To use an old NASCAR analogy, win on Sunday sale on Monday.
Glock is not the US Government who can just throw YOUR tax money around because they can always beat more out of you.

Glock cannot survive without profits on its sales of guns, and GSSF is not self supporting. What Glock pays to subsidize GSSF comes directly out of Gaston Glock's pocket. That is why there has to be a solid case made to support additional prize categories. The indirect benefits of adding some new GSSF award class have to, in Glock's opinion, outweigh the added costs to implement it.

I have always been impressed by the payout by Glock in pistols and cash. In my better days I won a pistol and several hundred dollars when the A, B, C, D classes were used to equally distribute prizes. I was very surprised to learn at the 2015 Morganton, NC match [had not shot any matches since 2004] that system had been abandon for the random awarding of pistols and cash. A solution maybe in returning to that system and simply add E, F, G etc. classes as dictated by number of competitors. Everyone then competes in their own little zone of ability and sometime we get lucky. I don't buy very many lottery tickets.
The problem with that old A, B, C system were that classes only divide evenly every third number.

That is, if you have 90 entries in a given Division, you have exactly 30 in each of A, B, and C.

What happens if you have 89? the way GSSF did it then you have 29 in A, 30 in B, and 30 in C.

So, where the 1st place B and C guns "fell" depended entirely on the total of number of entries there were that weekend.

At one match, you could be 29th and last "A" and win bupkiss to show for it. At another, you could be 29th and 1st "B" and win a gun. No one knew until the results were processed and it was determined where the class splits fell. That is a quasi-random system.

Also at the time, there were rumors that people were sandbagging their shooting to try to fall into the range where the "C" gun usually hit, rather than shooting to the best of their ability. It could be calculated within a range of about 10 seconds, plus or minus..

Also, that old prize distribution system only applied to Civilian and what is now Guardian. It did not apply to all the other Divisions. Even though at the time, Guardian was no longer the 2nd biggest GSSF Division. People shooting the other Divisions were in effect subsidizing the Guardian shooters. Totally unfair to them.

So GSSF scrapped the Lewis system and re-did their prize selection to reward the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place shooters for doing well and made the random selection process purely random across the entire match, not across individual Divisions. I might add, if you win 1st/2nd/3rd you can STILL win another random gun or cash award on top of it! Random is Random. It gives people incentive to not only shoot well, but shoot a lot!

I for one think it was a vast improvement.

Not trying to start a war but we can do numbers if you like. 700 [estimated at Morganton] competitors times $5.00 = $3500.00.
The $25 entry fee goes straight into the costs of the match and the costs of the awards. GSSF/Glock does not make or lose a nickel on entry fees. Again, the case has to be made that the change is worth the additional trouble to do it.

That buys a lot of Glocks. Actual production cost has been estimated by many to be less than $200.00 per pistol. How about a Superb Senior category and a plaque.?
What is the advantage to Glock to do it, is the question you must answer.

What is the advantage to Glock in some super-senior prize category?

"Because I think it wo0uld be a good idea" just does not cut it.
 
#18 ·
OK, my two cents worth.

Just like USPSA, GSSF has gotten too complicated as it is. That's my opinion, so nobody can say I am wrong (maybe stupid, uninformed, etc., but not "wrong").

By the way I am 73+. A new division for Super-Duper Senior will not help me as long as Mason Murphy keeps stomping most younger shooters in my area. What is he now, 77 or 78?
 
#19 ·
The girls division is not done like the regular-gifts do not go like normal. The winner got a $100.00, then 8 random guns to every 14 shooters, we had 81 in that category in Orlando. This may not be the random regular prize-Comrad Borg could enlighten us. There is a additional set up which I am sure there is or if this is a mix(but every 14-me thinks it is the set up??). :)

If Glock can see a break even or profit they will be inclined to do it--Best advertising I think-do You-humm. :)

Mike
 
#22 ·
GGSM is strictly $100 first prize, plus a gun every 10 entries.

If there are 9 entries, the prize is that $100 for 1st and NO guns.

If there are 10 entries, $100 and one gun, so 1 chance in 10.

If there are 19 entries, again $100 and sorry, still one gun, or one chance in 19.

At 20 entries, two guns and back to a 1 in 10 chance at the gun.

The advantage of the GGSM to Glock is that if Mom is at a match, EVERYONE is at a match!
 
#20 ·
DannyR.
The heat has got me several times this year but I got wiped out in Dawsonville, sick for 3 days. Got over heated between work and practice is why I missed Morganton, On my back for 3 more days--I have to watch it since it is quicker at taking me down since that happen.

Mike
 
#25 ·
Sorry to hear that Mike. If you didn't have a heat stroke, sounds like you got really close. It wiped me out as a kid in construction work and I suffered for years in the heat afterwards. Your "go fast days" are getting farther apart, trust me as your senior to know this. We have to slow down a little to get the best of the day now. Best wishes.
 
#24 ·
You have to be very careful in the heat. Years ago I got sick in Arizona and dehydrated in the 106 degree temperature. I have been careful ever since then.
 
#26 ·
I do not want to participate in a pool of lower scoring shooters just so I will have a better chance of winning!

I want to keep improving so I can move up in standing in the real world.


And I damned sure don't want a blue ribbon just for participating!
We are not in grade school!
 
#28 ·
Your slap at sandbagging shooters is right on.

As for the blue ribbon comment, you are wrong in the case of GSSF.

If you have, say, 100 shooters in a division and they KNOW that their $25 entry fee will only go towards the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place awards, and they KNOW that at their skill level they aren't going to BE 1st//2nd/3rd, how many of the 97 shooters who got bupkiss do you think are going to come BACK for a second match?

If GSSF only paid 1st/2nd/3rd awards it would have died and been gone years ago.
 
#31 ·
I hate "kumbaya"

I think humans are hard wired for aggression, NOT sweetness and light.

I also think that civilized behavior requires one to never initiate violence, but if violence is offered, give it back better than you get it.

One my favorite tunes is "March of Cambreath".

Kumbaya can go self impregnate.
 
#33 ·
Wow, your post almost sounds like a challenge. Talking about hate and what you appreciate seems self indulgent in evolution.
If you represent GSSF you have definetly darkened a bright light of people coming together peacefully.
Sorry, I think I posted this in the wrong forum.

There is a thread going in "Okie Collal" about songs you hate.

I may have posted here when I thought I was over there.

My bad.
 
#34 ·
Wow, your post almost sounds like a challenge. Talking about hate and what you appreciate seems self indulgent in evolution.
If you represent GSSF you have definetly darkened a bright light of people coming together peacefully.
As for your comment.

I think we make a mistake thinking we can get people to agree to live in a sweetness and light existence when our hard wiring is for violence.

It's too contrary to our nature and we should stop trying.

I think a more workable approach is to accept our violent nature but controlling it by mutually agreeing that NO ONE has the right to initiate violence.

But that if one DOES initiate violence it will be met with an equal or greater measure of defensive violence, and the one who initiated the violence will be held responsible for all the consequences.

Is that clearer and less dark?
 
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#37 ·
Hey guys, have a cold beer and calm down. A good cigar may help. You will feel better in the morning. Everything I say here is my belief and I shall continue to post in such a manner.
 
#39 ·
Appreciate the offers of a beer and cigar. The cigar no longer even considered as an exercise of consumption,the beer also not necessary as bed time was close by.

The governing body which you are as moderator has unlimited opportunities to express its beliefs, thank you for your input.
 
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