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Best all around wilderness survival caliber in a handgun

21K views 210 replies 109 participants last post by  happie2shoot 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Just curious what you think it is. .40 out of a 4.5" barrel will kill a whitetail at 25 yards. Bear is a whole nuther subject.
 
#145 ·
This man has been part of many big bear hunts in Alaska, this is one of his posts
on this thread, see what he gave to his daughter as a backup, she is a guide too.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8521043/m/3831021902/p/1


I have been carrying this 1st model S&W 44 Mtn gun for the past 15 years and before that I carried a M-65 .357. I gave it to my daughter when she turned 16 .
With Norma FNJ 180 gr bullets both it and the 44 with anything from 240 gr and up hard cast bullets will shoot through a bears head or break the large neck bones.


posted 12 March 2015 10:27

But whatever you carry you need to be able to shoot well and quickly and have faith in it's penetration





Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Posts: 2902 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004

I would get a six inch GP 100 Rug, it can handle the heavy loads much better,
I know this because I have three of them, 187gr FNGC home cast at 1500fps.

Check out what he wrote last month. It is a multi-page thread and he weighed in a few times. There was some interesting info concerning the new Buffalo Bore 9mm +P Outdoorsman round. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11241792/Bear_protection:_9mm,_40_S&#Post11241792
 
#146 ·
I'd bet there are about two people here that have ever needed to dispatch a predator in the woods to save their own skin however the vast majority here think a center fire cartridge is the best choice for surviving in the woods. I find that really interesting.
 
#149 ·
For me a center fire is the best choice, and I have more than a hundred choices including many 22lrs.

We load the 357 with mild loads, even round balls at around 75gr and 500fps if we want, to 210+gr.

With some of the loads they are cheaper than a 22lr.

We also load the bigger revolvers too but after you see just what
a proper loaded 357 will do, I, we, don't shoot them as much.

Have also loaded the 454 Casull with 137gr lead balls at 600fps,
a good small game load.

I do have some of the nicest 22lrs in both handguns and rifles.

Most of what we shoot are home cast.
 
#155 ·
In most cases I think a .22lr would suffice for survival.

On the other hand, the nice thing about a .44 mag revolver is that you can use a wide variety of loads in it. When I was in Alaska I had heavy loads for bear and 44 Spls for carrying around in the city. I also loaded up some shot shells for small game.

I've killed squirrels, rabbits and grouse with 44 mag shot shells and deer with regular 44 mag loads.
Well even though I thin 44 mag off the top of my head if eating was the primary thing a 22 will take small game and there is some useable meet even on a squirrel. Never shot a squirrel with a 44 that would be interesting...
 
#160 ·
You can shoot round balls in that 44 at 550 fps, look in the
Speer # 10 manual, cheaper than most 22lr rounds too
and quieter.
Great, thanks ! I overlooked that, know about "snake rounds " by CCI Speer but never thought of the 44 version... Gonna buy some.
 
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#161 · (Edited)
Yeah, snake loads are basically the same thing but there are no snakes worth shooting in my state. I bought a hundred of the shot capsules 25 years ago and still have most of them. I load different stuff in them depending on what I want to shoot. You can load, BBs, and size shot, small buck shot, lead balls or combinations of buck and shot.

Just found two that I loaded years ago. These have #6 shot in them. Notice that one casing is longer than the other. The capsules are the same, but one is 44 mag case, the other a 44 spl case.

 
#165 · (Edited)
If you want to make a good woods gun out of a 44 mag this is something to consider, it will save you much money in the long run.

I got one of these in 1966 for a 12ga shotgun, now I collect them,
this is for a 44 mag, you can reload any case that was fired in
your gun, it only neck sizes the case.

1966 was my best Christmas, also got a single barrel shotgun,
I was 10 years old.

Lee Classic Loader 44 Remington Mag

Lee Classic Loader 44 Remington Mag
696271 The Lee Classic Reloader is the perfect kit for someone who would like to start reloading one caliber wit...

This is another good investment for small game, I have shot
doves with real mild loads with both the 357 and 44, and
ate them, it does not waste meat like some say, just keep
velocity down to five to seven hundred fps.

With 2.9 grains of Bullseye you will get 549 fps and
over 2400 shots pr pound, that's right 2400 shots pr
pound. That is around five cents for each shot.

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold (433 Diameter) Round Ball

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold (433 Diameter) Round Ball
690922 Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Molds are a great choice for reloaders looking for a quality mold at an affordable pr...


This is one of the reviews for the round ball mold,

By Lee from Shawnee mission, KS

Makes a great small game bullet in .44" special/mag. Use lee liquid alox or melted bees wax. Weighs about 118gr. when cast from wheel weights.

This one will work for small game too and some big game also,
and will be more accurate at longer ranges,

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 429-200-RF 44 Special 44 Remington Mag 44-40

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 429-200-RF 44 Special 44 Remington Mag 44-40
520228 Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Molds are a great choice for reloaders looking for a quality mold at an affordable pr...


For the really big game this will work great, and you can expect
two to three inch groups at 100 yards if you fit it right, you also
have to be a good shot.

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold C430-310-RF 44 Special 44 Remington Mag 44-40

Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold C430-310-RF 44 Special 44 Remington Mag 44-40
511417 Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Molds are a great choice for reloaders looking for a quality mold at an affordable pr...


Even your best loads will probably be under 20 cents pr shot and that's if you use a G/C,
you will not need a G/C for most loads, Elmer did not use them.

You can do this with almost any handgun or rifle.

Elk at 200yds is no big thing with cast boolits, just think about the
buffalo that got wiped out with them.

You can use a Coleman gas stove to melt your lead.
 
#167 · (Edited)
Years ago I was shooting quite a few diamond back rattlers with .357 Mag shotshells. The ones you buy loaded with #9 shot, completely suck compared to hand loading them with #12 shot.

That article posted above is B.S. You're not going to be picking up a wounded rattler that has superficial body wounds. Only pellets in the head count.

Tony
 
#169 ·
Field expedient 44 snake load...

-If you have empty cases, punch the dead primer out and press fit a new one. Since you are not using a solid bullet you don't have to resize them. If the empty slides into the cylinder they will work.

-If you have a live cartridge, pull the bullet, dump the powder. (an inertia bullet puller works best but it's been done with pliers, just don't deform the case)

- Pour about 1/3-1/2 of the powder you dumped back in, covered by a wad made of cardboard or egg carton (either foam or cardboard). Use the case as a die to cut the foam or cardboard.

-fill the rest of case with shot borrowed from a shotgun shell if needed

-top with another wad sealed with white glue, or a glue gun or wax.

It'll work. The smaller the shot the more dense the pattern.

People sometime use plastic wads from .410 shotgun shells as well. They will slide into a 44 case. You will need to trim the wad for length and seal the top.

And of course....It ain't rocket science but don't be stupid, do at your own risk.
 
#170 ·
I believe that the best shot load for a 44 is made from 30-40
Krag brass or 303 British brass, you cut them to just a little
shorter than the cylinder and sometimes you have to turn the
rim down a little.

You can spin the case in a drill and hold a file to the rim until
it fits your cylinder, then prime the case put a small charge of
fast pistol powder in, three grains should be good, them pack
the rest of the case with tissue paper then fire form it to your
chamber.

This is a full cylinder length shot case, it will hold more shot
than any other shot load.

You put powder in, a small wad to keep the shot from mixing
with the powder, you can make it out of some plastic and a
little tissue, put shot almost to the top then cap it off with any
kind of wad or a combination of a card and some glue.

It has been 33 years since I made them so I am a little foggy.
 
#175 ·
I'm told 444 Marlin cases cut to cylinder length work as well and again, one can use .410 shotgun wads in them cut to length.

For 38 or .357 mag shot shells, a .357 Maximum case cut to length would work. Of course by the time you find and buy 357 Max cases you could probably just just buy the Speer capsules or factory loads.
 
#171 ·
I call total BS on .38 special snake shot.

It is a total unicorn, have been trying to find it for the past 2 years, ain't happening.

Either my googlefu is deficient, or it doesn't exist.

I will readily buy 200 bucks worth immediately, or once again, call BS.

Those whom would prove me wrong, provide a link, and I will gladly thank you.
 
#172 ·
I call total BS on .38 special snake shot.

It is a total unicorn, have been trying to find it for the past 2 years, ain't happening.

Either my googlefu is deficient, or it doesn't exist.

I will readily buy 200 bucks worth immediately, or once again, call BS.

Those whom would prove me wrong, provide a link, and I will gladly thank you.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/cci...special-shotshell-1000-fps-rdbx-p-147290.html

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=.38 shotshells for sale
 
#174 · (Edited)
(edited out the able ammo one, their page doesn't list as either in or out of stock for me when I go to it.)

lists as in stock (the #9 at 100 grains)
https://www.natchezss.com/cci-cente...ntLink&utm_medium=35987&utm_campaign=48247-NA


has a list of multiple places selling it, some were in and some were out of stock or not listed
https://www.slickguns.com/search/user/076683037381?title_only=0&hide_oos=1

erk, went through the whole list, natchez is the only one that lists it as actually in stock.
 
#176 ·
I'm told 444 Marlin cases cut to cylinder length work as well and again, one can use .410 shotgun wads in them cut to length.

For 38 or .357 mag shot shells, a .357 Maximum case cut to length would work. Of course by the time you find and buy 357 Max cases you could probably just just buy the Speer capsules or factory loads.
444 is a little too big, I tried that with my new Lyman carbide
44 sizer die, pulled the carbide ring out when I extracted the
case, that was in 79, they cost 54.00 back then.

Lyman did fix them, now I get Lee dies for much cheaper.

Remember you will have to neck the end of the case down
if you use full size cases like 357 max to fit the cylinder
throats, usually .357'' to .3585'' on most 357s and a 44 throat
is usually .4295'' to /432''.
 
#178 ·
It would be a 45LC revolver very easily! You can use smokeless or black powder, any bullet or round balls if needs to be. You can also load up your own powerful shot shell loading because the commercial bought garbage is just that garbage and so ineffective. I can break a beer bottle at 20+ yards and can be very effective small game killing.
 
#182 ·
Is it just me?

When one is citing a 6 pound plus hand gun, my brain says no... Rifle or shotgun...

I'm I'm the shot gun is the first gun and last gun camp .

Eat, protect all cases inbounds under 200 yards...
 
#183 ·
Thanks for the post, I always like reading his opinion.

I have been working on a cast heavy load in both the 357sig and 9mm.

So far have had great results with two boolits in both of them, a 131gr
fn and a 163gr fn, also have been playing with HF Red and homemade
aluminum GCs.
Check out his updates from a couple of days ago. It starts on the third page, at least on my browser. He shot an attacking bear with the Buffalo Bore 9mm Outdoorsman rounds. That looks good enough for me in my little part of the world!
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/11241792/
 
#185 ·
My edc G23 is all the gun I need. Black bears and cougars are the predictors of choice. But the most likely animal to give you a problem either in or out of the woods is still man.
 
#186 ·
#187 ·
I agree. Much of this depends upon what is meant by survival. How long? Where at? Etc.

Lets me say if I had to survive for an extended period in the mountains around here in the SUMMER, a 22LR would be OK. There are a lot of really small game (chipmunks). Some marmots. Then there are elk/deer. The issue with Elk and deer to eat is with "survival" the temperature is a killer and the meat goes bad. If you leave a large animal carcass around, it attracts scavengers. They also are not all over. You might not see one for days/weeks or many miles. Walk 5 miles at 9000ft and see how often you want to do that. You take the small the game, which is all over, and you get much over 22LR and you destroy meat.

There is a difference between survival and wishes.

I havent heard of many bears that keep coming when shot with anything. We have black bears for the most part and they arent really aggressive. They are looking for an easy meal not a fight.
 
#191 ·
Depends on where I was trying to survive... but locally I suppose I would look at

22 mag, shotgun over/under

or

.357 lever with a sidearm
 
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