Every other word from the mouths of my HK and Sig friends is "trigger".
I appreciate a good trigger and went down that road with my M&P full of Apex parts but is the insistence of demanding great triggers not a crutch for those who lack sound fundamentals?
Also a gun is much more than a trigger. I found I shot Glocks well easier than my fancy M&P.
Your friends need some other words added to their vocabulary:
Low bore axis
grip contact
competition
Gen4 recoil spring.
The Sig has a high bore, so muzzle fips more. The HK Vp9 doesn't fill my hand up as well as a Glock, so again, more muzzle flip. And Glocks are still wrecking everything in competition.
Doesn't matter what the trigger feels like, as long as it's ringing bullseyes. (And I'm a 1911 guy) Besides, a Lone Wolf 3.5 connector, trigger spring, smoothing the trigger shoe, undercutting the trigger guard, and some polish, make a Glock as good feeling as any other polymer striker pistol.
most require a light trigger. I prefer one that is not so light for CC. if I dedicate a weapon to target maybe lighter.
light trigger can't make up for practice,
I own an MP40 with a trigger that is pretty light.. my Glocks and SR series Rugers have a stiffer trigger which is what I carry. the G29 is EDC, SR9c hideout.
It's half and half really. Some cannot shoot well and have to have every advantage. I shot many thousands of rounds, before the trigger became an issue. Only then did I improve upon them.
H&K's and sigs's greatest triggers are terrible.
I guess this is what I'm getting at and I understand it because that was me. My fundamentals were messed up so I needed a good trigger to shoot decently not just to push the edge of performance like someone with proper fundamentals would do.
Even okay triggers are better than bad triggers, but everyone has a different opinion of what constitutes a bad trigger. For me, it's a loooong take-up, gritty or mushy break, and copious over-travel.
A good shooter will get more out of a bad trigger than a plinker will get out of a great trigger, right?
I shot single actions most of my life. Great triggers all. I TRAINED UP TO A GLOCK. No excuses. I got used to a Glock the way I got used to everything else. Until you've trained with a factory DA trigger on a big revolver and learned the weapon, you don't understand a HEAVY TRIGGER. Train up to your weapon. That MAKES YOU A BETTER SHOT
I find it interesting all the discussion about needing the shortest possible reset. I see this on You Tube videos where the reviewer raves about the short reset on the pistol they are reviewing but when watching them shoot the pistol they are obviously letting the trigger all the way forward between shots LOL.
A nice trigger won't make a good shooter out of a bad one, but a smooth, crisp, trigger is easier to shoot well. I really like the trigger on the old Sigs. I didn't love the trigger on my HK P2000 (stock trigger has a really long reset) so I had Bruce Gray at Grayguns do a trigger job on it for me. The Glock trigger isn't easy to master, and there can be a lot of difference in their stock factory triggers, even within the same model. Light doesn't necessarily equal smooth IMO.
I don't shoot the G17 as much as a BHP, and now that I have a 1911 in 10mm, the G20SF doesn't get shot.
A range session with the G20SF quickly puts a blister my trigger finger as it's rubbed between the bottom of the trigger and trigger guard. I max out at about 70 rounds during a range session, have exceeded 200 rounds 357mag DA S&W M686 plus and a scandium M327 TRR8 and Dan Wesson. Shooting 357mag DA and the cylinders get too hot touch between 50-70 rounds, put the hot 357 down and pick up the next to shoot.
Here's a photo comparison between a Steyr M40-A1, much better trigger, and a G20sf.....the robust construction of the Steyr compares with the G20.
Look at how forward the Glock trigger is.
Not much room in the trigger box, forget shooting with gloves.
Trigger and sights....
Want both to be better than average!
Jeff Cooper said basically the same thing, trigger and sights!
Why would you NOT want a good trigger??? :eyebrow:
As suggested it seems there are a few who are really good and can get more out of a mediocre trigger than others can get out of the best triggers. And one could probably substitute "brand" and "caliber" for "trigger" and still be.. umm... wait for it... accurate.
Sure if you can shoot well it's possible to make most guns work adequate for combat needs...but they won't be as 'adequate' as the same gun with a better trigger. You want to shoot bullseye one handed and all that stuff, you'll want a very good trigger.
Handguns were traditionally shot one handed, duelist style. A crappy trigger meant you would miss more.
That's a good point. The Glock pistols are fairly difficult for me to shoot one-handed. Maybe it's a matter of practice, but it doesn't seem to matter much either way with my S&W revolvers.
Why does it have to be one or the other? Making a virtue out of a necessity, for example, bragging about how well someone can shoot a gun featuring a suckish trigger, isn't really impressive.
I'd have to question the judgement, all other things being nearly equal as far as service pistols go, of someone who favored a pistol with an awful trigger.
My own perspective is that all of the striker fired handguns I have ever shot have featured craptastic triggers, being "good" or "worse" only in relation to one another. Were they still shootable? Sure, but why bother when better triggers are out there?
....I'd have to question the judgement, all other things being nearly equal as far as service pistols go, of someone who favored a pistol with an awful trigger. ....
For me, bullseye shooting requires a good trigger.
I've rented Wilson Combat and Nighthawk 1911s.
Plus own a S&W 629-2 with a trigger job.
As for Self Defense shooting?
Factory HK/Sig/Kahr/Walther/Springfield/Glock triggers all work fine.
Exactly, a trigger that is too light can be dangerous in a high stress situation. Don't ask me how I know this, as I learned it the hard way. On all my carry guns, I use the triggers without modifications as they come from the factory. Range guns, okay, but a carry gun is used for a different scenario, and ranges are usually very close making a lighter trigger really unnecessary.....
I have gotten use to factory triggers. I'm not an expert shooter but I have been shooting for many years.
I have two guns with light triggers and to be honest they scare me. Both are 22lr I use for target practice only and don't load them until I am ready to shoot. I had my Mark III to fire before I was ready once. It was pointed at the target but I had just put my finger on the trigger and hadn't intended to fire.
If you like me are use to shooting a fairly heavy trigger you should never lighten the trigger on your carry weapon.
A good trigger beats the pants off a simply ok trigger, all else being equal.
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