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VSP license plate reader technology violated Virginia shooter’s Constitutional Rights!!

4K views 64 replies 37 participants last post by  Morris 
#1 ·
That's a really poor TBOesque title, but, anyway...

An automatic license plate reader in a VSP Trooper's vehicle picked up the Smith Mountain Lake shooter's car on I-66.

Here is a piece on the controversy of the readers for those not familiar with it.

Advocate: Police bypass Fourth Amendment with license plate readers
ALEXANDRIA, Va. — The widespread use of automatic license plate reader technology by local police departments is not only unsettling — it’s unconstitutional, one civil liberties advocate argues.

“One problem is it bypasses the Fourth Amendment,” said John Whitehead, president of the Charlottesville-based, civil-liberties-focused Rutherford Institute.

Automatic license plate readers can capture the date, time and exact location of a vehicle — for up to 1,800 vehicles per minute. That data goes to a central database that can match DMV records and other locations where that license plate was also captured on camera.

The Fourth Amendment prohibits “unreasonable” search and seizure, requiring a warrant. It’s the same argument used against the National Security Agency spy program.

“The Fourth Amendment is really clear that you’re supposed to have probable cause before you do that,” Whitehead said.

The Fourth Amendment isn’t the only amendment right that ALPRs threaten, Whitehead said. The technology might make people uncomfortable to exercise their First Amendment rights if license plate information is collected at political rallies, for example.
Well, yesterday one brought the search for a killer to a quick resolution.
License plate reader technology picked up Virginia shooter’s car
License plate reader technology picked up Vester Lee Flanagan’s car after he shot and killed two TV journalists in Virginia early on Wednesday.

A license plate reader in the vehicle of Virginia State Trooper Pamela Neff picked up Flanagan’s Chevrolet on Interstate 66 at approximately 11:20 a.m. ET.

During a press conference Neff explained that the car was quickly identified after she entered its details into her license plate reader. "As soon as it was entered, it came up with a positive hit that that vehicle just passed me less than three minutes earlier," she said. "I let my dispatch know that the vehicle has passed me and I attempted to catch up with the vehicle, which was travelling eastbound on 66."

State Police initiated a traffic stop but Flanagan, who also went by the name Bryce Williams, refused to stop and a few minutes later his vehicle ran off the road and crashed. Officers approached the vehicle but found Flanagan with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He was pronounced dead at 1:26 p.m. ET.

“Technology picked it up,” explained Sgt. Rick Garletts of the Virginia State Police, during a press conference Wednesday. “Once a license plate is entered into the system, that reader will be able to identify that license plate when it passes.”

“License plate readers are a great tool,” he added. “It helped in that case to identify that vehicle.”
 
#6 ·
You have NO expectation of privacy with regards to your license plate, bottom line. I've had more than a couple people try to argue I needed probable cause to run their plate, and they'd get out of whatever charge I hit them with, then sue the pants off me, and yet nothing has ever come from any of their hot air.

Z5 bingo for the win!
 
#9 ·
I guess I'll never understand the argument. License plates are used for the sole purpose of individually identifying vehicles.

Where would one ever get the idea that it's illegal or unconstitutional to use it for its intended purpose? There is no warrant, probable cause or even reasonable expectation of privacy on your plates. If you don't want any government agency to know who are are when you're driving, ride a bike or walk. Otherwise, you gotta play the game to drive on government owned roads.
 
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#10 ·
I bet these guys have cell phones that are significantly better at recording their position at all times, by either/both GPS and cell tower tracking.

They're just afraid the police might look them up..........they don't care about the phone companies doing it. It's a question of who, not if.

The police frequently ask the cell providers where a particular person/phone is located.

I bet they think that being on Internet is anonymous too.
 
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#12 ·
There is no expectation of privacy in a license plate. The very purpose of the license plate is to identify the vehicle.

That being said, one of the most disturbing things about the murder yesterday was the go-pro film of the murder and live Twitter/Facebook post that the killer made while still on the run.

Is this going to be a new "thing" now? Selfies and go-pro filming of murder?
 
#18 ·
There is no expectation of privacy in a license plate. The very purpose of the license plate is to identify the vehicle.

That being said, one of the most disturbing things about the murder yesterday was the go-pro film of the murder and live Twitter/Facebook post that the killer made while still on the run.

Is this going to be a new "thing" now? Selfies and go-pro filming of murder?
That's a very troubling possibility - copy cats.

Although there have been others who either purposely, or accidentally recorded themselves.
 
#17 ·
We get that there is no expectation of privacy, and that public records are, well, public. But these public things were pretty well protected because they used to be darn inconvenient to get at. If you wanted to look at a lawsuit involving someone, you needed to physically go down to the courthouse, walk into the clerk's office, find a case number, request the file, page through everything, then make photocopies of what you wanted at some crazy high price. While they were legally public, they were functionally pretty private because it was a hassle to get what you wanted.

Today, we all know what you can get on the internet, and it's only getting faster and more thorough at accessing information. I wonder if some things that were made public so long ago would have, if we knew how easy they would be to get at today.
 
#19 ·
If you don't need a warrant to read someone's license plate and run it, the machine doesn't do anything different, only faster.

Randy
+1 I don't see where the civil liberty types would have a sound argument in regard plate readers. They are sort of like audio recording a person's conversation in a single-party consent state. You could just as easily take down what was being said by hand.
 
#20 · (Edited)
In the old days it was "no witnesses, no case" Then it became, "no fingerprints, no case" Nowadays it is "no DNA no case". From now on it wil be "no video, no case".

Ladies and gentelmen of the jury, although the procecution showed you the video of someone who APPEARS to be the defendant commiting the crime in question, may I remind you that the detective testified that they did not find the defendant's DNA on the video tape.
 
#23 ·
In MY opinion, he forfeited his rights by murdering innocent people in an obviously premeditated manner. Those innocent folks had a right to not be murdered in cold blood, so screw his right to privacy. I know legally that is not true, but just how I see it.

Let him file a lawsuit.....oh wait, he shot himself in his second cowardly act.
 
#24 ·
That's the liberal way. Guy shoots 2 people and attempts to evade capture and all the libs worry about is "was his constitutional rights violated". In my opinion any murderer has forfeited their constitution rights when they committed the crime.
 
#37 ·
In my opinion any murderer has forfeited their constitution rights when they committed the crime.
I understand the sentiment, but I have to respectfully disagree. Constitutional rights are sacrosanct. They exist to ensure the government doesn't overstep its bounds. They exist to protect ALL of us. Cops are well versed in bringing people to justice without having to result to violating someone's rights... As in this case. The suspect's rights weren't violated in the least. The officers in this case were able to do their jobs within the confines of the law.

The author is simply and idiot, who has no idea of what he is talking about. There is plenty of 4th Amendment case law (including a case that specifically puts to bed this EXACT issue) that backs their play of using plate readers.



Sent from my mobile communication device...
 
#25 ·
I don't particularly like the increase in surveillance technology and i can see how this could be abused. That said, I also don't see any Constitutional issues and a lic plate is in plain sight in the public domain. Perhaps there should be some laws regarding how long the raw data can be stored, and what is required to search through those records.
 
#26 ·
I don't particularly like the increase in surveillance technology and i can see how this could be abused. That said, I also don't see any Constitutional issues and a lic plate is in plain sight in the public domain. Perhaps there should be some laws regarding how long the raw data can be stored, and what is required to search through those records.
I think several jurisdictions are grappling with this issue right now. I'd be concerned to see a map of my movements over a decade. What would the purpose be in holding on to data like that?
 
#27 ·
The state tag is not your property in fact if your insurance is not valid or your tag is not up to date some states will have the officer take the tag during a traffic stop so I have no idea how the attorney can put forth this argument.
 
#29 ·
We do it all of the time. I have a small socket/bit set that was issued to me.

It'll say "peace officer shall confiscat drivers license and registration" on the LEADS throughput.
 
#28 ·
The Nypd license plate readers just caught a homicide suspect as well.

Before license plate readers we had "ez pass" readers.

If Nyc in the heart of liberal America has it, I bet it has been vetted thru the court system.

I think the plate readers can work both ways. It can save the innocent as well.

And it is definitely less intrusive than the cell phone tracking Google/Facebook does now.
To my fellow officers who do use Facebook or similar social media, check your settings. If Facebook detects your phone is close to another Facebook use phone, it will send friend suggestions/requests to each other. Your perp you just arrested might receive it because his phone was near yours during his processing. More than one cop here was contacted by their perp via Facebook to ask stupid questions like " what was that court date again"
 
#30 ·
The Nypd license plate readers just caught a homicide suspect as well.

Before license plate readers we had "ez pass" readers.

If Nyc in the heart of liberal America has it, I bet it has been vetted thru the court system.

I think the plate readers can work both ways. It can save the innocent as well.

And it is definitely less intrusive than the cell phone tracking Google/Facebook does now.
To my fellow officers who do use Facebook or similar social media, check your settings. If Facebook detects your phone is close to another Facebook use phone, it will send friend suggestions/requests to each other. Your perp you just arrested might receive it because his phone was near yours during his processing. More than one cop here was contacted by their perp via Facebook to ask stupid questions like " what was that court date again"
Best to just not use the Facebook anymore.
 
#31 ·
And the license plate reader can't be accused of having race, gender, religious or whatever biases. Everyone qualifies!
On the contrary I think it is a race based program. Obviously the Va shooter was crying racism, then he gets caught based on a LPR... it doesn't take a genius to connect those dots. End LPRs now! Black Personal Information Matters!!!!
 
#33 ·
Maybe next those "privacy advocates" will decide we need an interpretation of the constitution that prevents everyone from looking in the direction of anyone else out in public, without their express written consent (or, a warrant for police) to "see" them. :whistling:
 
#35 ·
If it's not illegal for a cop to enter your license plate for any reason whatsoever, then I don't see why it's illegal for a camera hooked up to a computer to do the same thing.
 
#41 · (Edited)
I still find it shocking how many of you think it is OK for mass surveillance and storage of whereabouts of Citizens is a good thing for a .Gov to do.

We have become a East Germany in just a less obvious intrusive way.

A strong surveillance system is in place and getting stronger. When .Gov gets to the point of where you guys do not like what it is doing, it will be to late to do anything about it as the control they will be able to place on you will be too complete.

Stupid Frogs do not feel that Temperature Rising.

If we Citizens decide to keep such a Dangerous Thing Alive, We should at least have a Large Independent of . Gov Citizen Grand Jury Type Group Watching its Use. With Powers to Punish those who use it wrongly.
 
#44 ·
I still find it shocking how many of you think it is OK for mass surveillance and storage of whereabouts of Citizens is a good thing for a .Gov to do.

We have become a East Germany in just a less obvious intrusive way.

A strong surveillance system is in place and getting stronger. When .Gov gets to the point of where you guys do not like what it doing it will be to late to do anything about it as the control they will be able to place on you will be too complete.

Stupid Frogs do not feel that Temperature Rising.

If we Citizens decide to keep such a Dangerous Thing Alive, We should at least have a Large Independent of . Gov Citizen Grand Jury Type Group Watching its Use. With Powers to Punish those who use it wrongly.
All frogs. I don't think it depends on their IQ or lack thereof.
 
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