Please read the entire thread before replying. Please. Chances are what you may want to ask or say was already covered.
Hey hey, what do you know, I finally have something worth reporting.
I visited a Bass Pro Shop today. I have openly carried to this particular store at least four times previous, probably more like six times previous, and have even interacted with multiple employees before.
This is a first, for me: When I entered:
Employee: Do you have a license for that? [motions at gun on hip]
Me: Yes.
Employee: Can I see it?
Me: I prefer not to show anything to anybody othe than law enforcement.
Employee: To paraphrase: Our policy requires us to see the license if you want to carry it openly. I decided it was reasonable and quickly showed him the license, he looked at the expiration date very quickly, said thank you, and on I went, with a smile.
I noticed he then got on the phone for an extended conversation.
A short time later I was approached by a regular looking guy in jeans and a T-shirt who identified himself as loss prevention and asked if I had a badge for that. I said no. He said that a Georgia concealed weapons permit, which is what it sounded like I had, allowed concealed.....I broke in and explained the whole "it's not a concealed...it's a GFL..open or concealed is legal....in GA open carry is legal..." to which he responded with the store policy angle. I could cover the weapon or they could put a trigger lock on it. Those were the options I was given. I said "Then I will just leave." And turned around and started to walk to the front of the store. There was another customer, a man in his 50's maybe, who approached both of us, asked if it was what he thought it was (more or less) and said that he thought it was crap, and he talked to XYZ person about it, and that it wasn't a concealed license he had one he knew the laws I was perfectly legal so it would have to be a store policy, etc...
I stoppd at customer service on the way out and they called the manager down. I asked him what the policy was (and I asked about the loss prevention guy as he never showed ID and I never asked, he verified he worked there and was within his power), he says the policy is what I was told.....cover it up or put a trigger lock on. I told him how many other times I had openly carried there and the manager stated that he was shocked beause they were not doing their job all those times everybody ignored the gun. He apologized for the inconvenience but that was their policy and as a private business they had that right. I agreed, they certainly did, and now that I knew I would be leaving and not returning (they are usually over priced anyway).
My dad and brother are visiting from Indiana, they never seem to be able to believe that I openly carry everywhere, all the time, adn nobody ever says anything. I told them they are bad luck, this is the first and thus far only time any employee (or LEO) has ever asked or said anything. Go figure.
So no more Bass Pro Shops for me.
Edit: I talked at length to the other customer and hopefully he will join GCO.
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UPDATE, originally posted in post #25
The head of loss prevention just called me back. He did a very thorough research job on GA laws, talked to a lawyer and talked to some local LEA. He determined that open carry is legal for those with a license in the jurisdiction and as such the only thing Bass Pro employees are to do is ask for a license and turn away customers who do not have or are not willing to show a license.
He also said that he contacted this store manager and informed him of this policy and told me that I should not have any problems openly carrying in the store as long as I have and am willing to show my GFL.
Sounds reasonable enough to me.
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The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.
to which he responded with the store policy angle. I could cover the weapon or they could put a trigger lock on it.
I believe I would ask to see the posted policy or at least a written copy of the policy. Which brings up the question - does the policy have to be posted or can a store just make up the rules as they go along?
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - The Dalai Lama
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
If the manager (or an employee, or person authorized to act on their behalf, etc) tells me that is the policy I can cover it up, have the trigger guard go on, or leave. Or refuse to do any of those things and have them call the police and issue a trespass warning.
Which is more or less how it should be. However, it may not be in their best interest to have and enforce these policies. Of course, that is entirely up to them and not me or us. I can only hope to persuade them otherwise.
__________________
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.
If the manager (or an employee, or person authorized to act on their behalf, etc) tells me that is the policy I can cover it up, have the trigger guard go on, or leave. Or refuse to do any of those things and have them call the police and issue a trespass warning.
Which is more or less how it should be. However, it may not be in their best interest to have and enforce these policies. Of course, that is entirely up to them and not me or us. I can only hope to persuade them otherwise.
Well you persuaded me anyway....
I know of the Bass Pro Shop you're speaking of...I'm not too far from Duluth.
I've never been a huge fan anyway, as I think them to be rather pricey.
Anything I would possibly buy there can be purchased elsewhere without that kind of hassle.
I was in KC for some training in November and went to BassPro to kill some time and look around. The first thing I looked for was magazines and saw that the only Glock mags they stocked were 10 rounders with a price of 39.99. I was so steamed I left without looking at or buying anything.
The next afternoon I found OMB express in Overland Park and stocked up on mags at a reasonable price.
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"Blessed are they who, in the face of death, focus on the front sight." -Col Jeff Cooper
I've noticed at the BassPro in Hampton, that when you purchase a handgun from the handgun counter, after you've paid for it, it isn't given to you, but carried by the employee and given to you only after you've reached the exit of the store.
When I purchased my S&W 1911 stainless from them using the 10% discount from their Visa is when I first noticed this, which seemed funny to me as I was carrying my Stainless Kimber Raptor in a Galco shoulder system.
I don't know if this is policy for all stores, but here it is, and I've not once seen any open carry in the store.
I would suggest that a few letters be written to BP Shops. It's in the plans for these fudds to build one next to the Mall of America in Minnesota. I'll get the local Pro2a goups ontop of this. However a letter from Warp first stating that
Quote:
This is going public and a boycot of their stores by gun owners is in the works
, wouldn't be a bad idea. When they start getting MAILED letters from around the country, it might start clicking and go to the top. Especially if there's a ton from a state where they're going to be building a new store.
Warp, would you be so kind as to post what you did over at www.twincitiescarry.com/forum ? Just post this under mn carry issues, since after all, BPS is trying to put a store in MN.
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-NRA Instructor Pistol/PPITH
Warp, would you be so kind as to post what you did over at www.twincitiescarry.com/forum ? Just post this under mn carry issues, since after all, BPS is trying to put a store in MN.
Sure. I'll do it today.
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The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.
I just got off the phone with him. I called the direct number listed through your link and he picked right up.
I explained it all to thim and the short of what he said is that they should not have messed with me. They should not ask to see a license or permit and if open carry is legal they should not bother me for doing so. He says he will check with his firearms guy, check my local/GA law, took me number and promised to call me back today after getting it all sorted out. He also apologized if I was inconvenienced or embarrassed by the incident.
Again, thanks for the link.
PS: He did state that at some stores they require open firearms to be checked, but that is only if there is a range. They require different things for guns to be used at the range and do not want range uses complaining about how they had to do XYZ but the person open carrying did not....but since this store does not have a range/I was not htere to use the range it does not matter.
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The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.
that sucks. how you work it out with hq so you can return to bps. you're right, there's prices are not the best but sometimes they have sales and some interesting stuff you might need in a pinch. the whole license thing bugs me, i find it odd an employee would want to see some i.d. but i guess it's their store, maybe the rules will be applied across all stores even though i only ccw, never oc.
btw, cabelas will walk your firearms purchase to the front door as well.
I had a reply but it was deleted. I don't remember what it was. LOL. Oh well, Warp you did the right thing and that's all you can do (besides not patronizing them anymore.)
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-Razoreye ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
And if I close my mind in fear... Please pry it open!
I just got off the phone with him. I called the direct number listed through your link and he picked right up.
I explained it all to thim and the short of what he said is that they should not have messed with me. They should not ask to see a license or permit and if open carry is legal they should not bother me for doing so. He says he will check with his firearms guy, check my local/GA law, took me number and promised to call me back today after getting it all sorted out. He also apologized if I was inconvenienced or embarrassed by the incident.
Again, thanks for the link.
PS: He did state that at some stores they require open firearms to be checked, but that is only if there is a range. They require different things for guns to be used at the range and do not want range uses complaining about how they had to do XYZ but the person open carrying did not....but since this store does not have a range/I was not htere to use the range it does not matter.
let us know what he says when he returns your call because i frequent that store quite often and it would be nice to know their policy....
Warp, I respect open carry as a right, but you also have to respect a company's wishes. Honestly, I think Bass Pro's policy is reasonable, they basically said you can have it concealed, its not like they are completely anti-gun. I'm guessing they believe the OC will scare soccer moms away, and as a business man, I'd do the same thing. There are probably more soccer moms there shopping for their husband than there are guys who OC. When you OC, you've gotta expect this to happen sooner or later.
I have been to that BPS twice. The second time I was carrying (G27 in an ankle holster). I saw a sign that said something like "All weapons must be checked with customer service". Being the lawful, rule minder I am I walked over to the customer service desk and said I saw the sign what would they like me to do. The man asked if I had a GFL and I showed it to him. He said ok thanks go on in.
I thought it was kind of silly because someone carrying illegally would not have even stopped...
I've noticed at the BassPro in Hampton, that when you purchase a handgun from the handgun counter, after you've paid for it, it isn't given to you, but carried by the employee and given to you only after you've reached the exit of the store.
Make the employee follow you around for an hour while you do some more shopping.
I work about 1/2 mile from a BP. I go there on lunch often, and I shop there a good bit.
I have no problem with a business not wanting OC. It's their business, and I can understand that. But...I think a sportsman shop that doesn't allow it, that's just off. *Though however it seems that BP does, within the law per state.
BP has a sign when you walk in saying all firearms/bows must be checked. I have no problem with that either. There's a lot of yahoos out there, and I wouldn't want them walking around my store with a rifle either. I don't know what their reasoning is, but I would bet it's just be sure the rifle is clear and checked. Maybe it's an insurance thing? All the used rifles they have there are out for handling, but have trigger locks.
Cabelas has a sign too, that they must be checked, but it also says that it does not apply to CCW.
One odd thing, is that when I bought my Glock from BP ($499) the gun girl that sold it to me held the box and walked me to the door. That was odd. Before walking out I had to ask for a bag, as I didn't want to be turned loose in the mall parking lot on a Friday night with a Glock/handgun case.
I like BP. Their prices aren't always the best, but it's a nice store. The gun counter guys at mine a real nice too. Since I'm there so often, I've talked to them a bit. They know I'm just burning lunch time checking out toys, and will still ask me if I want to see/handle anything, even though they know I'm not buying. And it's not that they're trying to sell it to me, because they never "push" it.
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Ain't a hard time been invented that I can not handle.
Warp, I respect open carry as a right, but you also have to respect a company's wishes. Honestly, I think Bass Pro's policy is reasonable, they basically said you can have it concealed, its not like they are completely anti-gun. I'm guessing they believe the OC will scare soccer moms away, and as a business man, I'd do the same thing. There are probably more soccer moms there shopping for their husband than there are guys who OC. When you OC, you've gotta expect this to happen sooner or later.
According to the letter from the head of loss prevention at Bass Pro, it is fine to open carry in Bass Pro...where legal.
The store personnel apparently didn't know the store policies.....I bet they do now.
Although I personally prefer to carry concealed, my thinking is that as long as one is obeying the law and store policies, they should be left alone.
I kinda think if it's legal to carry in a bank...
I respect the right of any business to set their own policies as well, but wonder how smart a business decision to alienate any customer over a legal activity.
It's why I never discuss politics with my customers...I don't want to piss off any of them, regardless of whether we agree. (Perhaps a lousy analogy, but what the heck?)
As a rule, I generally choose not to patronize those businesses who would discriminate against anyone, including those carrying openly where legal.
The head of loss prevention just called me back. He did a very thorough research job on GA laws, talked to a lawyer and talked to some local LEA. He determined that open carry is legal for those with a license in the jurisdiction and as such the only thing Bass Pro employees are to do is ask for a license and turn away customers who do not have or are not willing to show a license.
He also said that he contacted this store manager and informed him of this policy and told me that I should not have any problems openly carrying in the store as long as I have and am willing to show my GFL.
Sounds reasonable enough to me.
__________________
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing.
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