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Old 01-06-2009, 22:34   #1
.264 magnum
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Big-gig jump drives (16, 32, 64, 128 gig)

Are any of these things.....

A. Fast (consistently as fast or faster than firewire 400? for 24 bit 192k music)
B. Reliable fairly tough
C. Suitable as a means to store pics, and music back-ups in a safe deposit box for many years


Thx
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Old 01-06-2009, 23:01   #2
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I have a Sandisk 8 gig that I got a while ago. No problems.

I would highly recommend them as a safety backup system. Either that or an external hard drive.

The 8 gig I mentioned is NOT very fast. It has about 1/4 the speed of my external hard drive. Also, keep in mind that there are some differences in those sticks. Some are mechanical, but most are flash. Flash would obviously offer faster transfer times, but the mechanical type usually hold more information. I've never had a mechanical one because flash doesn't break, mechanical might.
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Old 01-06-2009, 23:03   #3
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A) Firewire 400 is a faster specification than USB 2.0, so you will never have any USB 2.0 flash drives that are as fast or faster. USB 2.0 is more than enough for 24 bit 192k music, however.
B) Flash drives contain no moving parts, so internally they are plenty tough and durable. The weak link would be the plastic housing they are encased in.
C) Flash drives can only be accessed a limited amount of times before they fail. This number is very high, something like 10,000 to 100,000 times depending on the particular model. Once you've reached this limit, in theory, the card will stop functioning, although some have reported that you can still read from the drive, just not write/delete.

For long term backup, I'd suggest using a top brand DVR-R disc or if that's not enough space to use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The expected shelf life on archive quality discs is 100+ years.
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Old 01-06-2009, 23:14   #4
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Not all thumb drives are equal. many of the el-cheepos use slower memory.

Try the Sandisk Cruzer,

Very durable and one of the faster USB drives. I've had a 8G for a couple years now. My only disappointment is what I paid for it back then, compared to what they are selling for now!
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Old 01-06-2009, 23:34   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CL_FlushEntityP View Post
A) Firewire 400 is a faster specification than USB 2.0, so you will never have any USB 2.0 flash drives that are as fast or faster. USB 2.0 is more than enough for 24 bit 192k music, however.
B) Flash drives contain no moving parts, so internally they are plenty tough and durable. The weak link would be the plastic housing they are encased in.
C) Flash drives can only be accessed a limited amount of times before they fail. This number is very high, something like 10,000 to 100,000 times depending on the particular model. Once you've reached this limit, in theory, the card will stop functioning, although some have reported that you can still read from the drive, just not write/delete.

For long term backup, I'd suggest using a top brand DVR-R disc or if that's not enough space to use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The expected shelf life on archive quality discs is 100+ years.
Some of the older memory sticks were mechanical. The "Jumbo Drive" comes to mind, but I can't remember who makes it.
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:50   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targettarget View Post
I have a Sandisk 8 gig that I got a while ago. No problems.

I would highly recommend them as a safety backup system. Either that or an external hard drive.

The 8 gig I mentioned is NOT very fast. It has about 1/4 the speed of my external hard drive. Also, keep in mind that there are some differences in those sticks. Some are mechanical, but most are flash. Flash would obviously offer faster transfer times, but the mechanical type usually hold more information. I've never had a mechanical one because flash doesn't break, mechanical might.
I have a few of Sandisk drives and they do work well. But mine current drives are 2, 4, and 8 gig. I'd like to try working with bigger drive but they can't be slow.

Thanks-
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:55   #7
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Quote:
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Some of the older memory sticks were mechanical. The "Jumbo Drive" comes to mind, but I can't remember who makes it.
The mechanical ones you're talking about are the Compact Flash microdrives. First released by IBM, and then later sold to (and by) Hitachi.

Microdrives only exist in Compact Flash (CF) format. Any other format is flash memory. At this point, using a microdrive is fairly pointless. They were a great thing back in the day when flash memory was very expensive. But, with flash memory so damn cheap, microdrives really don't have much to offer.

jas
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:04   #8
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I love my 16gb Sandisk.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:19   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CL_FlushEntityP View Post
A) Firewire 400 is a faster specification than USB 2.0, so you will never have any USB 2.0 flash drives that are as fast or faster. USB 2.0 is more than enough for 24 bit 192k music, however.
B) Flash drives contain no moving parts, so internally they are plenty tough and durable. The weak link would be the plastic housing they are encased in.
C) Flash drives can only be accessed a limited amount of times before they fail. This number is very high, something like 10,000 to 100,000 times depending on the particular model. Once you've reached this limit, in theory, the card will stop functioning, although some have reported that you can still read from the drive, just not write/delete.

For long term backup, I'd suggest using a top brand DVR-R disc or if that's not enough space to use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The expected shelf life on archive quality discs is 100+ years.
I do burn to DVD as an uber-back up.

USB 2.0 does not work well with audio over 24/96. Apparently - and I'm talking out of my butt here - firewire has some sort of "intelligent protocol" that USB 2.0 lacks. In practice 24/192 files will drop out every now and then via USB 2.0 this never happens with firewire. It may well be that a flash drive will supply files to the music server (MacBook in my case) plenty fast but that USB 2.0 output will remain a culprit.

I'm investigating this pretty hard and I'll report back with any interesting info.


Apparently, USB 3.0 will fix all these problems.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:27   #10
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We will know we've finally reached that "promised land" of progress our elementary-school teachers spoke of (personal space travel, atomic automobiles, etc) when we can finally hold an entire lifetime collection of ultra hi-res music (with total reliability) on a keychain.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:38   #11
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Quote:
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We will know we've finally reached that "promised land" of progress our elementary-school teachers spoke of (personal space travel, atomic automobiles, etc) when we can finally hold an entire lifetime collection of ultra hi-res music (with total reliability) on a keychain.
Hey Atlas,
I hope today finds you well and happy.

I think we're close to your "key chain" hope right now.


My wife's IT/hardware GURU just presented her with a laptop that has - let's call it a RAM hard drive. It's less than 100 gigs but double stupid fast. The IT guy said he will get her a bigger drive later this year. He claims the laptop will last more than eight hours per charge plus the rig is light and dead silent.


ETA - I've always had a crush on Judy Jetson and maybe a man crush on Geroge Jetson with all his cool stuff.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:47   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonvp View Post
The mechanical ones you're talking about are the Compact Flash microdrives. First released by IBM, and then later sold to (and by) Hitachi.

Microdrives only exist in Compact Flash (CF) format. Any other format is flash memory. At this point, using a microdrive is fairly pointless. They were a great thing back in the day when flash memory was very expensive. But, with flash memory so damn cheap, microdrives really don't have much to offer.

jas
I have an 8 gig Samsung Pleomax USB drive- I bought it about 3 years ago for $50. Someone here said I was stupid for using it.

It works flawlessly, and it is not CF format.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:03   #13
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If you're looking for portability, I've never had a problem with any of the usual brands (San Disk comes to mind). If you're just looking to back up data, remember to store your backup in a different place than your computer! No sense watching them both burn in the same house fire or walk away with the same bandit.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:12   #14
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Quote:
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If you're looking for portability, I've never had a problem with any of the usual brands (San Disk comes to mind). If you're just looking to back up data, remember to store your backup in a different place than your computer! No sense watching them both burn in the same house fire or walk away with the same bandit.
+10,000

I want jump drives to work so that I can store redundant copies variously at my mom's house and in my safe deposit box - AND - move files from OXS to and from Vista more easily.

A few years ago my wife's good friend lost many years effort worth of genealogy in a fire. She had tape and external CD backups - in the closet. All gone.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:56   #15
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I have a 16G drive voyager by corsair. It's the only drive I found with a 10 year warranty and it only cost me about five bucks more than the comparable sandisk and lexar.

Coincidentally, I have had both sandisk and lexar and both have failed on me, though it took years. I'm a student and I write large files many times a week. Whatever you do, don't count on a jump drive you use daily as the be all end all storage. Use a redundant system.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:04   #16
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Speed and reliability depend on manufacturer, I had one fail after one use.

Reads are theoretically unlimited writes are not. I would not use a flash based device for storage. I use HDs for interim backups and optical (DVDs in the safe) for long term.

I use USB for audio all the time with no problems. The deck in my truck takes a USB stick. Do you have the stick on a hub with any other USB devices when you have this problem?
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:21   #17
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All memory is not created equal. If your data is important, buy premium memory from reputable manufacturers, instead of shopping for the best price. Even that is no guarantee, but your odds improve considerably.

An example would be an https://www.ironkey.com/

Although they are more geared towards security, they use the best memories available, and the price shows it.

YMMV.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:31   #18
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Quote:
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I have an 8 gig Samsung Pleomax USB drive- I bought it about 3 years ago for $50. Someone here said I was stupid for using it.
That isn't what the poster I quoted meant. You're talking about a real hard disk that works via USB. The poster I quoted meant a tiny flash-sized device that fits in a CompactFlash slot. Look up Microdrive to understand what I mean.

For instance: you can't take your 8G drive and drop it into a camera. Microdrives fit in any camera that supports CF.

jas
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:43   #19
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Quote:
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That isn't what the poster I quoted meant. You're talking about a real hard disk that works via USB. The poster I quoted meant a tiny flash-sized device that fits in a CompactFlash slot. Look up Microdrive to understand what I mean.

For instance: you can't take your 8G drive and drop it into a camera. Microdrives fit in any camera that supports CF.

jas
This one: http://www.directdepot.net/product_i...ducts_id=10778

It is a microdrive- I had one of the original IBM microdrives, and it was thicker than a standard CF card, so it wouldn't fit into most devices.
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:48   #20
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It is a microdrive- I had one of the original IBM microdrives, and it was thicker than a standard CF card, so it wouldn't fit into most devices.
Correct. The Microdrives are CF2 format, not the original CF format. There is very little in the way of CF (type 1) out there. I thought that was assumed, but, I guess not. :-)

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Old 01-07-2009, 13:32   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RenoF250 View Post
Speed and reliability depend on manufacturer, I had one fail after one use.

Reads are theoretically unlimited writes are not. I would not use a flash based device for storage. I use HDs for interim backups and optical (DVDs in the safe) for long term.

I use USB for audio all the time with no problems. The deck in my truck takes a USB stick. Do you have the stick on a hub with any other USB devices when you have this problem?
That last question is interesting. No. USB 2.0 will not pass more than 24/96 audio. And everything has be just right for than to work.

ETA - Sorry meant to include that I use one USB device only when passing hi rez music.
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Old 01-07-2009, 13:41   #22
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Originally Posted by CL_FlushEntityP View Post
For long term backup, I'd suggest using a top brand DVR-R disc or if that's not enough space to use HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The expected shelf life on archive quality discs is 100+ years.
I've had both Memorex and TDK DVD's go bad and lose data after only two years, and was completely shocked by such poor performance, so I no longer buy those brands.

I do however agree that DVD's are usually an excellent way to store data for the long haul.

I'm having good luck with Sony, Fuji, and especially with a cheaper off brand called "Great Quality" that is available at Fry's Electronics. I was initially skeptical about GQ disks, but they have been working out well, and Fry's has them on sale dirt cheap almost all the time.
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Old 01-07-2009, 14:11   #23
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I've had both Memorex and TDK DVD's go bad and lose data after only two years, and was completely shocked by such poor performance, so I no longer buy those brands.

I do however agree that DVD's are usually an excellent way to store data for the long haul.

I'm having good luck with Sony, Fuji, and especially with a cheaper off brand called "Great Quality" that is available at Fry's Electronics. I was initially skeptical about GQ disks, but they have been working out well, and Fry's has them on sale dirt cheap almost all the time.
http://www.ritekusa.com/division_main.asp?division_id=1

Ridata makes some of the best disk to arcive on according to tests done a couple years back. This is a huge concern for professional photographers...

Keep your disks in the dark left out in the sun (like on a the seat of a car) can end their life fast...
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Old 01-07-2009, 15:05   #24
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That last question is interesting. No. USB 2.0 will not pass more than 24/96 audio. And everything has be just right for than to work.
I'd be interested to know where you got that tidbit of information from. I can disprove it just by plugging my iPod or iPhone into my computer. Both are USB2.0 capable, and all music on them is 320kbits. They play fine.

(And before you question it: when you connect an iPhone or iPod to your computer and play the music through iTunes, the device isn't playing the music, it's merely transferring the audio bits to iTunes to play).

Further, I took a USB thumb drive full of 320kbit songs with my on a recent vehicle test drive. Once the thumb drive was connected to the car's built-in USB port, the music played beautifully.

So, who says USB2.0 isn't capable of higher than 96kbits?

jas
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Old 01-07-2009, 18:39   #25
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The USB 2.0 specification should be able to handle 24 bit 192k files. If you are having problems due to lack of throughput, it's possible that there is a bottleneck somewhere in your system.

First make sure that your drives are "optimized for performance" in Device Manager. The default setting is "optimized for quick removal" so that you won't lose info or trash the card if you pull it out in mid-use. You'll be surprised 'how much difference this makes. The drawback is you need to "safely remove the device" every time you want to disconnect it.

Next I would make sure that you don't have any other USB devices connected to the same bus. This can be tricky because some internal devices (such as a integrated webcam on a laptop, fingerprint reader, etc) will utilize the USB bus and you might not realize it.

Next I would look into getting a high speed flash drive. Sandisk's "Extreme" branded products series have a good reputation.

If none of this work, it may be your USB controller's chipset itself is slow. If this is the case and you have a desktop PC, you can add an expansion PCI card that will not only be fast, but ensure that your flash drive is on it's own bus, thus eliminating step 2.
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