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Old 10-27-2008, 17:16   #1
kat1950
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Redistribution

Taken directly from another post..


I heard someone say, “Poor people have been voting for democrats for 40 years - and they're still poor.”

Yesterday on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read 'Vote Obama, I need the money.' I laughed.

Once in the restaurant my server had on an 'Obama 08' tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference -- just imagine the coincidence.


When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.


I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.


At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more.


I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

Last edited by kat1950; 10-27-2008 at 17:18..
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Old 10-27-2008, 18:01   #2
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redistribution

Great post and so much truth. Obama's redistribution concept just ensures the votes of more mindless sheep.
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Old 10-31-2008, 21:21   #3
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Nothing like a little hands on experience to make someone understand
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Old 11-01-2008, 18:56   #4
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Ok, all you Obama supports out there with kids....take 1/3 of the candy your kids got last night by walking the streets and making an effort, and give to the lazy good for nothings that want candy but wouldn't go get their own last night.

Redistribution. Sounds great
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:22   #5
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Old 11-15-2008, 23:04   #6
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Americans have for years, hated the thought of socialism and redistribution of wealth. What Obama means by spreading the wealth is for more people to have $ and not just a small sect of the American population.
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Old 11-16-2008, 02:40   #7
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Note that those claiming to "spread the wealth" inevitably end up spreading the poverty and misery.
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Old 11-16-2008, 15:12   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
Americans have for years, hated the thought of socialism and redistribution of wealth. What Obama means by spreading the wealth is for more people to have $ and not just a small sect of the American population.
What obama plans to do is tax people over $250,000 gross(including small business owners) and take their hard earned money and give MORE MONEY to the people who don't work who are already sucking up resources on wellfare and hand outs. Middle working class people aren't going to see any of the tax cuts or benefits from any of this and you know damn well that the big companies are going to find loop holes and get out of it as usual.

He says we are going to crack down on these big companies and wasteful spending and yet there is a bill coming up to BAIL OUT GM. Billions more $ for nothing. Lets start cutting the fat at washington and the spending there before we put small businesses out on their ass and giving more hand outs to the lazy and unmotivated. Just my opinion.

Also, now that BO is making more than $250k, will he be participating in the share the wealth campaign? just wondering
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Old 11-17-2008, 21:03   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farnhamj View Post
What obama plans to do is tax people over $250,000 gross(including small business owners) and take their hard earned money and give MORE MONEY to the people who don't work who are already sucking up resources on wellfare and hand outs. Middle working class people aren't going to see any of the tax cuts or benefits from any of this and you know damn well that the big companies are going to find loop holes and get out of it as usual.

He says we are going to crack down on these big companies and wasteful spending and yet there is a bill coming up to BAIL OUT GM. Billions more $ for nothing. Lets start cutting the fat at washington and the spending there before we put small businesses out on their ass and giving more hand outs to the lazy and unmotivated. Just my opinion.

Also, now that BO is making more than $250k, will he be participating in the share the wealth campaign? just wondering
You are right on 2 counts.

1. middle class americans will NOT see a tax reduction. President Obama never said so... he said your taxes wont go UP and they wont under his plan.
if you make more than $200,000 and less than $250,000 - you will get money back. if yo umake MORE then $250,000 - you WILL pay more. as you should.
2. yes, President Obama will be paying more taxes as his salary will be $250,000 a year.

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Old 11-17-2008, 22:23   #10
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My guess here is that very, very few people on this board will get a tax increase. I can't imagine that very many of us make over 250K a year taxable income. I also don't see the harm in helping people in need. I have a MA in counseling and actually have seen tax payers dollars do good. I have seen children that would have likely become a huge drain on the economy (ie:jail) learn how to become productive members of society. Sure you can find people that abuse the system. That does not mean we should give up. If we give up the problem becomes worse not better. My wife talked to a Social Worker in Virginia today who she had not spoken with in 3 years. She said the foster care caseload for the city is down to 100 from the 250 that it was 3 years ago. It was due to prevention and education. We pay now or pay latter. Thats the reality. When you watch kids fail in foster care, fail in school, and then wind up in jail or dead you might feel different. I have many stories of the dead parents/children and the incarcerated for life that we now get to pay for. Some would have lost no matter what but many could have been saved. Never mind the people they killed and the families that effected. Ah, what do I know. I just seen it with my own eyes.

I got out of the field because I got abused daily by people who only wanted to "cut" funding. Basically, it sucked other then I really did get to help save people families from very difficult times.
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Old 11-18-2008, 18:56   #11
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CO4wheel - very interesting posting. thank you for your service to our communities.
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Old 11-20-2008, 00:09   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
You are right on 2 counts.

1. middle class americans will NOT see a tax reduction. President Obama never said so... he said your taxes wont go UP and they wont under his plan.
if you make more than $200,000 and less than $250,000 - you will get money back. if yo umake MORE then $250,000 - you WILL pay more. as you should.
2. yes, President Obama will be paying more taxes as his salary will be $250,000 a year.

Do you feel sorry for the mom and pop companied that make $250k to $1M. I really think that this is going to put alot of them out of business while the milti-million/billion dollar companies are going to find the loop holes and escape yet again.

Your opinion on this?
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Old 11-20-2008, 15:06   #13
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I hope he make the Bush Tax Cuts permament, because when they expire in January, MY TAXES ARE GOING TO GO UP ... YOU MORONS, and so will yours.
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Old 11-20-2008, 15:34   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farnhamj View Post
Do you feel sorry for the mom and pop companied that make $250k to $1M. I really think that this is going to put alot of them out of business while the milti-million/billion dollar companies are going to find the loop holes and escape yet again.

Your opinion on this?
Become a S-Corp. Then the only taxes you pay is on the Money you pull out and put into your own pocket. I don't feel sorry for anyone putting 250K into their own bank account.
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:54   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farnhamj View Post
Do you feel sorry for the mom and pop companied that make $250k to $1M. I really think that this is going to put alot of them out of business while the milti-million/billion dollar companies are going to find the loop holes and escape yet again.

Your opinion on this?
I agree with you on this farnhamj! A liberal and a conservative finding some common ground. My thoughts are as follows... I think you are right in your posting, however, I also think that there needs to be some reform in reference to the matter you are talking about... to prevent things like this from happening and from big CORPS taking advantage of this via loopholes. Loopholes need to be closed so big corps dont get out scott-free and mom and pop barely into the 250k range dont get nailed.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:46   #16
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Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
I also think that there needs to be some reform in reference to the matter you are talking about... to prevent things like this from happening and from big CORPS taking advantage of this via loopholes.
Thats what Obama was talking about in his debates.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:35   #17
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if this was at a coffe shop in florida, small world
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:33   #18
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Well let me tell you guys what a small business that falls in the parameter will do, out of 10 employees, 3 will lose their jobs, the other 7 will have to perform the work of 10, with the money I save on workmens comp, matching FICA, unemployment tax,liability insurance, I will keep the extra money I will now owe in extra tax, the people in this tax bracket will never take home less money, believe me on this, I have had to do this twice in 35 years in business.The working man will always lose, plus being unemployed.

Obama better be prepared to print allot of money to compensate all those unemployed people , and the economy will fall further into recession and most probably a depression.

Look at the stock market right now,long haul big money selling, we are not going to take the hit on a capital gains tax.


We are in for a very rough four years, more so for the working man, than the so called rich.

Last edited by kat1950; 11-21-2008 at 12:38..
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Old 11-21-2008, 13:21   #19
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Well let me tell you guys what a small business that falls in the parameter will do, out of 10 employees, 3 will lose their jobs,
Lets say each employee cost about 20K in salary. Then they are actually costing you 30K once you add in all the basic cost of a typical employee. So you are saying that his tax increase is going to cost you so much that you have to trim $90K from you budget. I just don't see that at all.
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Old 11-21-2008, 14:59   #20
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You bet. around 75,000. I have to figure everything including a 10 to 15 per cent raise in Capitol Gains, and any liabilities from his Administration over and above the current Administration. With a 20 per cent buffer added. Plus a little bonus at the end of the year to keep those 7 people happy.


In the long run the 7 men are going to be doing the work of 10, any extra money made, can be considered greed or the way we put it " good business".


This might seem cruel, but that's what business is all about, MONEY, if people understand that, and no worker ever got paid by a poor man, and it is the business mans goal to make as much money as possible, then they have the knowledge to make decisions with their minds instead of their emotions.

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Old 11-21-2008, 17:06   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Lets say each employee cost about 20K in salary. Then they are actually costing you 30K once you add in all the basic cost of a typical employee. So you are saying that his tax increase is going to cost you so much that you have to trim $90K from you budget. I just don't see that at all.
Colorado4wheel, might I ask what field of endever are you in. I assume you own your own business. Correct??
No flames ... OK?
What was the main reason you voted for Obama?
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Old 11-21-2008, 18:43   #22
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Colorado4wheel, might I ask what field of endever are you in. I assume you own your own business. Correct??
No flames ... OK?
What was the main reason you voted for Obama?
I am currently a builder. I have also been the director of a Counseling agency that employeed 50 people. Right now I am a S-corp. When did I say who I voted for? I found this to be a very difficult election. Competing wants between the economy, personal rights, and the feeling that McCain was a poor choice in many ways and Obama was a poor choice in many others ways. To me I am stunned that more people did not see the negative of McCain. Around here everyone is plenty clear on what the Negatives of Obama were/are but the idea that it was such a easy choice is baffling.

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You bet. around 75,000. I have to figure everything including a 10 to 15 per cent raise in Capitol Gains, and any liabilities from his Administration over and above the current Administration. With a 20 per cent buffer added. Plus a little bonus at the end of the year to keep those 7 people happy.


In the long run the 7 men are going to be doing the work of 10, any extra money made, can be considered greed or the way we put it " good business".


This might seem cruel, but that's what business is all about, MONEY, if people understand that, and no worker ever got paid by a poor man, and it is the business mans goal to make as much money as possible, then they have the knowledge to make decisions with their minds instead of their emotions.

In my world I make money on the people I can keep busy. As long as I have work then it's wise to keep them working. Not just lay them off because of a tax increase. If those 3 people are not earning income then that can make sense. But it still makes more sense to have more employees to spread the cost of support staff around a larger pool. I guess I just don't understand your situation.
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Old 11-21-2008, 19:38   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meshmdz View Post
if yo umake MORE then $250,000 - you WILL pay more. as you should.
Why should they pay MORE? No one should have to pay more taxes. The government should get by with less. We spend our money better than the government could ever. Look what happened when Paulson was given a $700 blank check. Even he can't figure out how best to spend it.

You socialist are SO good and thinking how best to spend other people's money, and then you screw things up. Stay off my back and keep you hands off of my wallet.
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:17   #24
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Why should they pay MORE? No one should have to pay more taxes. The government should get by with less. We spend our money better than the government could ever. Look what happened when Paulson was given a $700 blank check. Even he can't figure out how best to spend it.

You socialist are SO good and thinking how best to spend other people's money, and then you screw things up. Stay off my back and keep you hands off of my wallet.
Here is the issue. It's not that some companies are not paying their fair share. It's that the very rich are not paying their fair share. When someone making over 1 BILLION a year is paying under 15% and ordinary people are paying over 30% then thats a problem. That is what this is about. That is a extreem but its actually happening. There should be no situation where the middle class pays a higher % of taxes then the wealty. Being abused by the wealthy is a little like communism isn't it?
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:32   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Here is the issue. It's not that some companies are not paying their fair share. It's that the very rich are not paying their fair share. When someone making over 1 BILLION a year is paying under 15% and ordinary people are paying over 30% then thats a problem. That is what this is about. That is a extreem but its actually happening. There should be no situation where the middle class pays a higher % of taxes then the wealty. Being abused by the wealthy is a little like communism isn't it?

Colorado,

You are wrong. I suggest a trip to the IRS website and you can download spreadsheets showing WHO pays WHAT in taxes.

Now for a simple lesson in economics:

Businesses do not pay taxes. The consumer pays the taxes for them in the form of higher prices at the time of sale.

If you RAISE taxes by 10% on a business, they in turn have to raise the prices for the goods and services that they provide in order to pay the higher taxes.

When prices go up, fewer people can afford those goods and services. Suddenly business slows down, and the business has lay off workers or seel their goods and services for a lower profit. Selling at a lower profit causes the company's (if it is publicly traded) stock to go down in value. When that happens, people sell off that stock.

If the business had to lay off workers to keep paying taxes, those workers have less disposable income to purchase goods and services from other companies and things begin to snowball, effecting the entire economy. More people are laid off and then NOBODY can pay the taxes, businesses go under and the government then doesn't collect ANY taxes from businesses.

Thinnk of your own household. If suddenly the price of everything goes up 10% you are going to have to make some choices. You may not be able to buy than name-brand jacket. Or you may not be able to buy that new glock pistol. All of the businesses you deal with will be effected and in turn so will their employees.

If you want to see the economy turn around, you give tax breaks to people who actually pay taxes. You can look it up at the IRS site, but those making less than about $50,000 don't pay any taxes. These were the (stupid) people Obama targeted and said he was going to give a tax cut to. Can't really give them a tax cut if they aren't paying taxes can we?

Why do we have a 15% Capitol Gains tax? That causes people to NOT want to invest in the stock market. Lift the capitol gains tax and more people would be likely to invest, because you have a greater (theoretical) guaranteed return.

86% of all federal income tax is paid by the top 25% of earners (that is at about the $200,000 mark) in this country. You can find that on the IRS site. Kind of beats your statement that the rich are not paying their "fair share" huh?

The top 50% of wage earners (making roughly around $60,000 per year) pay 97% of all taxes collected. That is quite a bit less than the $250,000 per year "rich" people Obama talked about, isn't it?

The bottom 40% of income earners pay NOTHING IN TAXES. As a matter of fact they generally get MORE back than they put in because of things like earned income credit and other "welfare programs" that politicians have emplaced in the tax code to buy votes.

Now, lets look at those "evil" oil companies.

Exxon-Mobil posted a profit last quarter of $14 BILLION DOLLARS. Obama went on the campaign trail and told people how "greedy" the oil companies are and it was horrible that they made that kind of profit etc...

What you didn't hear was Exxon-Mobil also paid ...ready for this.... $11 BILLION DOLLARS IN FEDERAL TAXES DURING THAT SAME QUARTER.

What you need to do to educate yourself is go learn the difference between profit and profit margin. Politicians who play this classwarfare crap COUNT ON YOU NOT KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE.

I'll let you go research that for yourself, but here is a hint. Of the $14 BILLION in profit they made last year, how much of that went to sallary, maintenace, exploration etc..? At your house, what was the difference between what you earned last week and what you had after paying bills? Folowing me?

You also have to define "very rich". Somebody who is extremely wealthy, living of investements pays little in taxes. Got it. But wasn't the original money that got them the return on the investments taxed? As far as those who are extremely wealthy because they work, I have shown you already that they do IN FACT pay their fair share.

Somebody who is extremely wealthy has the ability to invest that wealth in their own or another business. This creates jobs and in turn allows workers to pay taxes and buy goods and services from other businesses.

Tax cuts...across the board, but especially for the PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PAY TAXES is always a good thing for the economy.

Be cautious in drinking the kool-aid that politicians serve up. Do reasearch for yourself and become informed.
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