Stealing Ipad, stopping the theif? Legal options?

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 12:10

Was playing at the local casino last night, keyboard player has (had) Ipad with tons of sheet music on it. There's no stage to speak of, short waist high wall behind us with public on the other side (easy enough to reach over, and just chairs to the side to delineate the area we are in. So people sitting in those seats are right there next to you.

Anyway, while packing up, guy in one of those seats waits until the keys guy puts his ipad in his duffel bag and turned around, then bold as hell walked behind him into the "stage" area, grabs the Ipad, walks back out and hustles his way out of the casino.

Just walked right behind Tony, within arms length, I'm set up next to him disconnecting cords, not like the stuff was left unattended, we were all right there.

Amazing how ballsy that was.

So my question is if I had seen him grab it, as private citizen should be able to grab him and prevent him from leaving, right? I can't beat his ass or anything, but just checking if grabbing him and holding him for security/cops is legal.

Common sense would say you'd be ok, (that's what makes me nervous) wondering if I'd be opening myself up to assault/battery charges. An Ipad is only worth a few hundred bucks.

Obviously can't use excessive force, assuming I would use the minimum amount of force to keep him from escaping with the Ipad, and he was caught red handed.

Soundman saw him walk over there (no ipad), start to walk away (with Ipad), thought it was odd, then remembered Tony had one, asked him where it was, but by then the guy was long gone.

Security footage has him from a distance, no good ID from that, cameras cover his exit from the casino to local adjoining restaurant, but restaurant has live feed, no recordings, they're hoping he used one of the parking structures on the other side of that restaurant with surveillance so they can get a plate on him to track down.

I thought I was careful about where to put stuff packing up there, but I'll be a lot more careful going forward. You let your guard down when you're in the immediate vicinity of your stuff, don't expect people to be so brazen.

Randy

DaBigBR · 08-05-2012, 13:12

State law would be a factor, but if you were to grab him, and he were to struggle, then I think you would be golden to whoop his ass. And the least bit of force used against you would probably net your new bestest buddy a robbery charge. Win-win.

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBigBR

State law would be a factor, but if you were to grab him, and he were to struggle, then I think you would be golden to whoop his ass. And the least bit of force used against you would probably net your new bestest buddy a robbery charge. Win-win.

Thanks, good to know...

Funny side note... there's one particular cop that comes by periodically, just to keep an eye on things, I just happened to strike up a conversation the first time I played there. He was there as we were packing up, at closing time, a good time for him to stop by and show colors in case anyone didn't want to leave or was feeling frisky.

Since then, he's seen me play with 4-5 different bands at the various casino-related venues downtown (I fill in with a few bands, turns out you need a gaming license to play music in the casino, so I'm a licensed bass player... when someone needs a fill in, that means there aren't a lot of options, booking agency gives me a call.. lol). Its become a standing joke between us, after he saw me with the third band I told him with James Brown dead, I'm now the hardest working man in show bidness...

Turns out he's the one that came by and took the report last night. I'm playing with another new band fri night, hoping he stops by so I can add another chapter to the legend...

Randy

blueiron · 08-05-2012, 14:27

No open carry in the casino?

blueiron · 08-05-2012, 14:29

A counterfeit P-Bass makes a great impact weapon!

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueiron

No open carry in the casino?

In MI, I believe it would be legal with CPL. Not sure about casino policy, I imagine any open carriers would be turned away at the door by the unarmed security as a matter of policy.

The other question would a bass guitar conceal an openly carried pistol to such an extent as to put me in jeopardy?

Randy

**bobby_w** · 08-05-2012, 14:42

That is a bummer. I hate tool thieves and that is what his iPad was.

Did he have the "Find my iPad" configured on it?

***TBO*** · 08-05-2012, 14:43

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueiron

A counterfeit P-Bass makes a great impact weapon!

I'm a j*** bass guy, so a genuine P-bass would still make a great impact weapon!

My favorite was when I played a Steinberger. All one piece carbon fiber body and neck, strong enough neck that it didn't even require a truss rod.

Tuners were recessed knob in the body. You would not even need to retune it after using it as an impact weapon! (You can tell I considered having to do that a few times, to the point of considering whether it would knock it out of tune..

Imagine the hilarity that ensued one time I got pulled over coming out of the bar (fishing for drunks after bar close) and the officer saw that case in the front seat...

Luckily I don't usually drink at all on gigs.

I started leaving it in the back seat after that.

I took that on a trip to Chicago one time, was interesting going through airport security carrying that. That was in the late 80's though, way before 9/11. Still raised more than a few eyebrows...

Randy

***TBO*** · 08-05-2012, 14:46

Sharky7 · 08-05-2012, 14:53

"Sir, stop running your face into my fist."

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby_w

That is a bummer. I hate tool thieves and that is what his iPad was.

Being a keyboard guy, he had 700 songs @$5.00 a pop in sheet music on it, so it really was a tool for him. Luckily had had the raw files backed up, but had updated a lot of the songs with comments and hints that were lost. Great setup, touch the screen to go to the next page, very convenient, fast access, way better than a book full of paper.

Quote:

Did he have the "Find my iPad" configured on it?

Something like that.

Not sure the name of the app, but he had some sort of gps/locator on it. But it only would work when it could make a wi-fi connection to report its location.

When we were loading the cars he used his iphone to try to get a location for it, and it read that the app was disabled. He was sure he had it enabled. That was about 45 min after the theft when he thought about trying it.

Not sure if the thief was smart enough to disable it, or if that is what the status reads if it doesn't have wi-fi connection.

I imagine it doesnt' need wi-fi to figure out where it is, it just needs wi-fi to report it is...

He sent a remote wipe command to clear the hard drive, but I imaging the same limitation exists there. Unless the ipad has wi-fi connection, it can't receive the wipe command.

It was an Ipad 1. Not sure if the new ones close that loophole. They'd need some sort of cell based internet connection like a kindle to work.

Randy

***TBO*** · 08-05-2012, 14:55

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBO

Have seen that posted a few times before, and I have already incorporated that into my game plan... I am DEFINITELY going to use that one wherever possible.

Being a part time musician, not a big fan of using knuckles against a hard bony skull! Broken hands are hard to play with, and I've broken a pinky before, they do not heal all the way sometimes, it does not straighten out all the way anymore. Luckily its on my right hand, only need the left pinky to play bass. It also doesn't bend all the way, I wonder if that could be a problem punching someone, prone to breakage.

I would aim for soft vulnerable spots in my old age.

Randy

***Cochese*** · 08-05-2012, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBigBR

State law would be a factor, but if you were to grab him, and he were to struggle, then I think you would be golden to whoop his ass. And the least bit of force used against you would probably net your new bestest buddy a robbery charge. Win-win.

Concur.

Here, you could tell him to leave it alone.

Texas, you can do a lot more.

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBigBR

State law would be a factor, but if you were to grab him, and he were to struggle, then I think you would be golden to whoop his ass. And the least bit of force used against you would probably net your new bestest buddy a robbery charge. Win-win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochese

Concur.

Here, you could tell him to leave it alone.

Texas, you can do a lot more.

Thanks, guys. You know, I really am an idiot sometimes.

The cop I met before and shoot the bull with down there is the one that responded and took the report, I could have asked him about the local law on the matter.... although he was busy getting the details for the report, so suppose it wasn't a good time to ask. I'll probably run into him Friday, have to remember to check.

Randy

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochese

Concur.

Here, you could tell him to leave it alone.

Texas, you can do a lot more.

Doesn't Texas allow deadly force for larceny at night or some such thing?

1:30 in the morning is night in any jurisdiction except maybe parts of Alaska...

Moot point, not sure I'm legal to carry in the casino as reserve officer yet, seeking clarification on that before I try it. Supposedly no pistol zones no longer apply to me but as always, the devil is in the details.

Randy

blueiron · 08-05-2012, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveksux

I'm a j*** bass guy, so a genuine P-bass would still make a great impact weapon!

My favorite was when I played a Steinberger. All one piece carbon fiber body and neck, strong enough neck that it didn't even require a truss rod.

Tuners were recessed knob in the body. You would not even need to retune it after using it as an impact weapon! (You can tell I considered having to do that a few times, to the point of considering whether it would knock it out of tune..

Imagine the hilarity that ensued one time I got pulled over coming out of the bar (fishing for drunks after bar close) and the officer saw that case in the front seat...

Luckily I don't usually drink at all on gigs.

I started leaving it in the back seat after that.

I took that on a trip to Chicago one time, was interesting going through airport security carrying that. That was in the late 80's though, way before 9/11. Still raised more than a few eyebrows...

Randy

I see what you did there!

The J feels better up and down the neck, but the P has more 'thump' and when the music requires it, that's what I use. I always wanted a Steinberger L and still casually search for one in great condition. Perhaps one day, I'll find one.

You could always router out the back to hold a Baby Browning or a Walther TPH and cover it with a magnetic cover... an old Bassist showed me one done that way when he played dives with bad history.

When I take my SKB cased Bass to school, I have to be paranoid about it. More than once, someone called the university PD about a biker looking dude with a guncase on campus and I got the official stink-eye.

Sharky7 · 08-05-2012, 16:19

This is a blessing in disguise.

F- the IPad, bring back one of these to your band.

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueiron

I see what you did there!

The J feels better up and down the neck, but the P has more 'thump' and when the music requires it, that's what I use.

I acknowledge the P bass fits great in the mix for some things....

But I love me some J*** bass growl, and do miss my old Stingray...

Quote:

I always wanted a Steinberger L and still casually search for one in great condition. Perhaps one day, I'll find one.

I kept mine, figured it might be collectors item someday. No such luck, they go for around what I paid for it around 1980. Converted to 5 string to try that. Ended up going with real 5 strings since then. I got the parts from Steinberger, they had just come out with a 5 string bridge/nut that they were using on the 4string bodies. Was able to adapt it to my existing instrument, drilled new mounting holes for the bridge. They put a slot in the nut vs mounting holes for me so I could mount it with my 4 string nut screws. That was my criteria for trying it, wanted to be able to replace the existing hardware if I didn't like it.

Quote:

You could always router out the back to hold a Baby Browning or a Walther TPH and cover it with a magnetic cover... an old Bassist showed me one done that way when he played dives with bad history.

Hey, I can conceal what I got just fine... I'm trying to stay legal...

I just wear a dressy shirt you don't tuck in. Bass makes a great additional cover garment too... Cover as in cover, not concealment actually... An inch or so of ash might stop a bullet, at least slow it down...

Quote:

When I take my SKB cased Bass to school, I have to be paranoid about it. More than once, someone called the university PD about a biker looking dude with a guncase on campus and I got the official stink-eye.

Weird, I never got a hassle when I went to UofM dearborn, but that was late 70's so people must not have been so paranoid about school shooters back then. That steinberger case really looks more rifle like than a hardshell bass case...

Randy

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharky7

This is a blessing in disguise.

F- the IPad, bring back one of these to your band.

AHhhh!! The key-tar.... I have played with guys that have something similar... If I were a keyboard player, I'd do it in a heartbeat, those regular keyboards are damn heavy to lug around. You can midi that crap together to computer stuff, should be able to get a nice lightweight setup... Not sure why those went out of style...

Randy

blueiron · 08-05-2012, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveksux

Hey, I can conceal what I got just fine... I'm trying to stay legal...

I just wear a dressy shirt you don't tuck in. Bass makes a great additional cover garment too... Cover as in cover, not concealment actually... An inch or so of ash might stop a bullet, at least slow it down...

What happens when it's time to sell? Buckle rash is easy to explain, but hammer or beavertail rash?

I imagine a Leo Quan BA bridge could absorb most hollowpoints rather well.

steveksux · 08-05-2012, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueiron

What happens when it's time to sell? Buckle rash is easy to explain, but hammer or beavertail rash?

I keep the pistol IWB at 6:00, and the bass doesn't come into contact with it, the sights are just peeking out the top of the belt from the cant. I should see if I can even draw with the bass in place... but that's what the BUG in the left pocket is for...

I pasted a pic of me playing at a j*** concert a few years ago, all anyone commented on was my pasty white legs.... dont' usually wear shorts on stage, but it was one of those 100+ degree Augusts, we were out in the sun, no cover to the stage, mid afternoon...

Quote:

I imagine a Leo Quan BA bridge could absorb most hollowpoints rather well.

I bet you're right, those suckers are massive... Always amazed how flimsy the stock fender bridges look in comparison..

Randy

merlynusn · 08-06-2012, 06:26

One time I responded to an arson car fire. The car owner's boyfriend was holding the suspect down when we got there. He made some comment and mine was "You just gave up a free ass beating." He then asked if he could have a few minutes with the suspect and I had to tell him no since we were there and already had him in handcuffs.

But I highly doubt any cop would have a problem with you stopping the thief from stealing it. And like Brad said, when he uses force against you, it becomes a robbery.

Droid noob · 08-06-2012, 06:37

I had a friend that had his ipad stolen. He went to att(where he bought it) and they were able to trace the gps to the exact house. Cops found it there with some other stolen items.

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