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Old 10-11-2008, 22:50   #301
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Originally Posted by cookekdjr View Post
Honestly, as I watch this campaign, it looks more and more like a tragedy. I was a huge John McCain fan in 2000. I read his autobiography, I followed his career, I knew people who knew him. I did not agree with him on some issues, I knew he'd messed up royally in the S&L crisis, but I liked him anyway. He was real.
Then GWB used some of the dirtiest most dishonest tactics in history to beat McCain in South Carolina, and McCain, the straight talker, conceeded. Instead of calling W on his b.s., and punching him in the face, he bent over for the guy. He sold out when the GOP told him to hang up his Maverick ways, and they'd let him be the next president. So he gave up the one thing he always had- his independence- for the payoff of the presidency.
Now some of the same people who screwed him in South Carolina (and/or their proteges) are running his campaign. He's doing the same dirty tricks. And, unfortunately, in the last eight years McCain has aged badly. Really badly. He, on tv, has often confused the Shiites and Sunnis, and Afganistan and Iraq. Not once, but several times.
So the sad thing about this campaign is, the man who should have been president in 2000, has diminished, both by age and by choice, to someone unrecognizable in 2008. The sad fact is that the McCain of 2000 would not vote for the McCain of 2008. Honestly, if you told the McCain of 2000 he'd turn out like this in 2008, he would cry.
It's pathetic.
cooke, no worries, he wont win.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:52   #302
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cooke, no worries, he wont win.
What's funny, is that on the night of November 4th, there is gonna be a lot of dissapointed socialists to see the hype machine fall to the old man! That's my prediction, call me bold, but we will find out in a few short weeks weather I am crazy or just smart enough to read the stitches on the fastball.
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:12   #303
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what's disappointing is... there are people who think this guy is qualify to be president. Watch this video, and then re-think your vote.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap2Cg_FDRy4&NR=1
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Old 10-13-2008, 21:00   #304
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cooke, no worries, he wont win.
Yeah, I know he won't win. But it reminds me of when Marciano beat Joe Louis to a pulp. Louis had been a champion. He had been somebody. But he looked like a washed up loser has-been (or even a never was) when Rocky Marciano gave him such a horrible beatdown.
McCain used to be somebody. Somebody important. Now he is a total washed up loser. Its pitiful. And he did alot of it to himself. He sold out, and look where it got him. The most strident conservatives in the country like George Will and Bill Kristol say he's washed up. And they are right,
At least some people at GT still like him. But they'd vote for chimp if he had an "R" beside his name on the ballot....
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Old 10-15-2008, 14:49   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookekdjr View Post
Yeah, I know he won't win. But it reminds me of when Marciano beat Joe Louis to a pulp. Louis had been a champion. He had been somebody. But he looked like a washed up loser has-been (or even a never was) when Rocky Marciano gave him such a horrible beatdown.
McCain used to be somebody. Somebody important. Now he is a total washed up loser. Its pitiful. And he did alot of it to himself. He sold out, and look where it got him. The most strident conservatives in the country like George Will and Bill Kristol say he's washed up. And they are right,
At least some people at GT still like him. But they'd vote for chimp if he had an "R" beside his name on the ballot....
You are right. Some people are as ignorant as they people they make fun of voting the other way. They STILL vote for a person because of his stance on Abortion or Gun Control... The thing is, in reference to Abortion, (had this conversation with a girl the other day) she votes for Republicans bc they oppose it but in the past 8 years, what measures have they taken to change the legality surrounding the issue? NOTHING. Some people are just so foolish. I am looking forward to all my fellow GTers whining and moaning about what they said couldnt happen; Obama being elected. Gonna be lots of activity on this forum hating on Obama.
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Old 10-15-2008, 23:01   #306
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He has the needed qualities. I don't agree with him. I will vote for another. But come on, this is like listening to dems after Gore lost in 2000. Both have their flaws, but in the end, I have to put a little trust in the system.

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...Yes. He was born in the United States and meets the age requirement. ...
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...They STILL vote for a person because of his stance on Abortion...votes for Republicans bc they oppose it but in the past 8 years, what measures have they taken to change the legality surrounding the issue? NOTHING...
One of the most BS or least intelligent statement I have heard (and not just from the person quoted). It is full of PC BS logic. While in theory I understand you may believe there are more important issues, frankly, who appoints justices in the next 4 years will be a major factor on this issue. If this person you know believes this is an important (as in top) issue, it is logical she vote as she has suggested.

Regardless of who gets ellected, I'm willing to bet 2A issues will be effected very little, we will go to war (or stay in a state of war), the econ will be bad, etc. However I am willing to bet heavy abortion is the one issue that will go either way for the next 20 years based on who is President in 2009.

I don't care to get into a pro-life conversation on this forum, but for the record, pro-abortion is very worried about the number of supreme court justices who will most likely be replaced this year. In the last 8 years, the pro-life justices that have been added to the court.

It is clear this year the big issue is the econ. for most voters. If this is not your friend's big issue, and abortion is (regardless of pro-life or pro-abortion), more then any other year, this is the year.

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Old 10-16-2008, 07:32   #307
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I don't care to get into a pro-life conversation on this forum, but for the record, pro-abortion is very worried about the number of supreme court justices who will most likely be replaced this year. In the last 8 years, the pro-life justices that have been added to the court.

It is clear this year the big issue is the econ. for most voters. If this is not your friend's big issue, and abortion is (regardless of pro-life or pro-abortion), more then any other year, this is the year.


You are right. But I think there are many unintended consequences to putting pro-life judges on the USSC. Here it is:

Roe v. Wade and Griswold v. Conn are tied together (Griswold clearly established a right to privacy and granted the right for married couples to have birth control; people may not remember but birth control used to be banned in many states). Killing Roe v. Wade could also take Griswold with it. Maybe it would, maybe it would not, but its very close. And as soon as RvW went down, legal scholars everywhere would talk about whether Griswold was safe.

I don't think people realize how many people would be offended by this threat; I think over 50% of the people, probably many more. What it would lead to is the Dem party sounding the alarm of the threat to family privacy, and independents and moderate Republicans would flock to the Dems in record numbers. Think about how many women and girls take birth control pills because of health problems unrelated to birth control, think about married couples use birth control to plan when to get pregnant. And if birth control and abortion are both illegal, how many kids do you think would seek back alley abortions?
A way of life dependant upon family privacy would be placed in jeapordy by overturning RvW, as Griswold, the case that made it illegal to ban birth control, and established a right to privacy, was the foundation for RvW's opinion.
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Old 10-16-2008, 17:20   #308
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Thanis, i am glad that I could be the person you said posted some BS or unintelligent rhetoric... Get real. You are a newbie here. The vast majority of people in the USA SUPPORT a woman's right to choose. and who the hell are YOU to tell a WOMAN what she can or cannot do with her body? Lay off the peyote Thanis.
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Old 10-16-2008, 19:21   #309
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Thanis, i am glad that I could be the person you said posted some BS or unintelligent rhetoric... Get real. You are a newbie here. The vast majority of people in the USA SUPPORT a woman's right to choose. and who the hell are YOU to tell a WOMAN what she can or cannot do with her body? Lay off the peyote Thanis.
Sad reply. Look at cookekdjr reply. It is honest in reasoning and demonstrates an awareness of the issue. You on the other hand are all feeling, you try to spew facts, but there is no substance, as you are just stating your point of view.

I don't care if you, or who, is pro-life or pro-abortion on this forum.

The point (that you missed) is that abortion is the one issue this year that might actually matter given the two clear choices. IMO, on the other "issues" it is questionable how much either of these candidates differ in the areas they can actually effect change.

Look at gun-control. Clearly Obama is less pro-gun then McCain. However, neither party has the political will to make any substantial changes in the next 4 years. In addition any justice spots that are likely to open would not alter the receint 2A decisions.

Again, I don't care to get into a pro-life / pro-abortion argument here. But I will state again that you were wrong to state that Republicans have done nothing to strengthing the pro-life agenda. It is PC BS that you may think sounds intellectual or logical, but is nonsense. Why else would pro-life be so happy with the justices that have been appointed in the last 8 years. Why else would pro-abortion be so worried and disappointed.

Instead of trying to bully your point of view on people online or in RL, take a second, and be honest.

A lot of replys on this thread need to be more honest. Several are just spouting off their politics, but not being fair and honest in their reasoning.

Even a newb like me can tell.

Last edited by Thanis; 10-17-2008 at 08:13..
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Old 10-16-2008, 19:37   #310
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and who the hell are YOU to tell a WOMAN what she can or cannot do with her body?
At what point do you believe a fetus becomes a human life?
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Old 10-17-2008, 05:57   #311
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If Sen. Obama were truly looking for a kind of deregulation that might be responsible for the current financial crisis, he need only look back to 1998, when the Clinton administration ruled that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could satisfy their affordable housing obligations by purchasing subprime mortgages. This ultimately made it possible for Fannie and Freddie to add a trillion dollars in junk loans to their balance sheets. This led to their own collapse, and to the development of a market in these mortgages that is the source of the financial crisis we are wrestling with today.

Finally, on the matter of deregulation and the financial crisis, Sen. Obama should consider his own complicity in the failure of Congress to adopt legislation that might have prevented the subprime meltdown.

In the summer of 2005, a bill emerged from the Senate Banking Committee that considerably tightened regulations on Fannie and Freddie, including controls over their capital and their ability to hold portfolios of mortgages or mortgage-backed securities. All the Republicans voted for the bill in committee; all the Democrats voted against it. (DO YOU REALIZE WHAT YOU JUST READ) AGAIN... In the summer of 2005, a bill emerged from the Senate Banking Committee that considerably tightened regulations on Fannie and Freddie, including controls over their capital and their ability to hold portfolios of mortgages or mortgage-backed securities. All the Republicans voted for the bill in committee; all the Democrats voted against it to get the bill to a vote in the Senate, a few Democratic votes were necessary to limit debate. This was a time for the leadership Sen. Obama says he can offer, but neither he nor any other Democrat stepped forward.

Instead, by his own account, Mr. Obama wrote a letter to the Treasury Secretary, allegedly putting himself on record that subprime loans were dangerous and had to be dealt with. This is revealing; if true, it indicates Sen. Obama knew there was a problem with subprime lending (THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU JUST READ) -- but was unwilling to confront his own party by pressing for legislation to control it. As a demonstration of character and leadership capacity, it bears a strong resemblance to something else in Sen. Obama's past: voting present. YEAH THAT"S RIGHT, HE VOTED "PRESENT"

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Old 10-17-2008, 14:30   #312
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I will concede that I do think Barack has many of the necessary qualities of a President, but that certainly doesn't mean I want him to have the job. My wife, a registered Democrat who rails on and on about the plight of the poor, and when she does handle my guns usually acts like shes holding a live snake, said after the last debate, and I quote, "God, after listening to that man talk for long enough I feel like I need to take a shower."

I agree.

John McCain wasn't my first choice. I consider my vote for him to be more in the spirit of a vote against Barack Obama. Not to say I don't like the guy, or admire some of the things he's done in his life, but he just wasn't the guy I REALLY wanted in the White House.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:55   #313
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thanis - if the Republicans have done so much for the pro life agenda, then why has the rate of documented abortions all across the United States continued to stay the same over Bush's tenure in office?

Moreover, why has the conservative SC not attempted to overturn RoevWade? if you seriously think that the Repubs have done anything on the pro-life agenda you are wrong. Abortions still happen and the fact is that McCain isnt going to do anything about making abortions illegal. They will remain legal as they should be.

welcome to the forum though thanis.
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Old 10-18-2008, 12:56   #314
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At what point do you believe a fetus becomes a human life?
When it can sustain life ON ITS OWN, without the host of its MOTHER.

Next question please.
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Old 10-18-2008, 13:09   #315
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When it can sustain life ON ITS OWN, without the host of its MOTHER.

Next question please.
Wow, thats a pretty broad and warped definition you got there. I don't know of any prepubescent kids that can sustain life on their own. Hell lets just line up all those poor kids in head start programs and start offing them, since they can't sustain themselves.
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Old 10-18-2008, 13:11   #316
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Moreover, why has the conservative SC not attempted to overturn RoevWade?
"conservative court"? Pretty cockeyed view of things, don't you think? There are 4 strict constitutionalists on the court (if thats what you mean by "conservative"). There are 9 justices overall. 4 ultra liberal justices and 1 moderately liberal judge. How on God's green earth do you consider the current court "conservative"?
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Old 10-18-2008, 15:26   #317
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Wow, thats a pretty broad and warped definition you got there. I don't know of any prepubescent kids that can sustain life on their own. Hell lets just line up all those poor kids in head start programs and start offing them, since they can't sustain themselves.
PAgunner, way to totally misinterpret my words. Not sustain life without the social ramifications of a young child and her or his mother taking care of him or her... i am talking about physical sustainment of life like being able to breathe on their own, heartbeat, etc..

It is foolish to think that I am asserting that little kids are not alive because they cant live without a guardian... get real.
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Old 10-18-2008, 15:33   #318
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"conservative court"? Pretty cockeyed view of things, don't you think? There are 4 strict constitutionalists on the court (if thats what you mean by "conservative"). There are 9 justices overall. 4 ultra liberal justices and 1 moderately liberal judge. How on God's green earth do you consider the current court "conservative"?
Hmmmm. lets see...

Roberts
Scalia
Thomas
Alito

THERE are your 4 CONSERVATIVE justices.

Lets see... Bush and REAGAN's nominations include...

Souter
Kennedy

these are your conservative/moderate justices that actually do the Court a GREAT service by their moderate thinking.

Then you have Ford's appointment.
Stevens

Then Clinton's, whom are more liberal.
Ginsburg
Breyer



You are an idiot if you honestly think that the Court is Liberal or leans Left. Completely ignorant sir. Get real. It is OBVIOUS that the Court is conservative or fairly moderate, leaning RIGHT at the least. Wisen up PAGunner.
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Old 10-18-2008, 15:59   #319
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Wow, thats a pretty broad and warped definition you got there. I don't know of any prepubescent kids that can sustain life on their own. Hell lets just line up all those poor kids in head start programs and start offing them, since they can't sustain themselves.
Pretty cockeyed view of things huh?
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Old 10-18-2008, 16:46   #320
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Hmmmm. lets see...

Roberts
Scalia
Thomas
Alito

THERE are your 4 CONSERVATIVE justices.
Kennedy is the only moderate on the court. Souter and Stevens are far left "living breathing document thinkers", I don't give a rats *** who appointed them. GHB, and Gerald Ford where RINOs, they just wanted to appoint someone for the sake of appointing them. Funny how republicans allow liberal justices (living breathing document crowd) to get on the court if they have the qualifications, yet liberals play politics because RINOs always fold. Souter, Stevens, Ginsberg and Breyer are what you call activist judges, they pull law out of thin air, essentially making law. That isn't their job, their job is to interpret the constitutional issues, which is why only strict constitutionalists belong on the court. Ginsberg, Breyer, Souter and Stevens all should have been politicians, they way they make up law. Roe V. Wade was based upon a "right to privacy" that is allegedly in the constitution. I love having a "right to privacy", but show me were it is explicitly in the constitution? Its not, they came up with some ridicolous excuse saying its intrinsic in 4 different amendments, yet these same justices said 2A is not an individual right, despite the wording of the document, statements from the founding fathers at the time, and practices in the US of the 1780-90s clearly showing otherwise. Why? Because the "living, breathing document" crowd doesn't like guns, and they believe they don't have a place in society. So instead of proposing an amendment that nullifies the 2A, they attempt a politically active end around. So my qustion to you is, how can you support justices that make up their own rights that don't exist in the constitution (thats not the bad part), yet just ignore rights in the constitution that clearly exist (this is where I have a big problem with these tools)?

Of course, you strike me as pigheaded, so I'm sure you will ignore what I just wrote, but you can go ahead and keep your head in the sand, its your right as an American.
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Old 10-18-2008, 17:11   #321
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Pretty cockeyed view of things huh?
Nope, I was just applying his answer to real life. You liberal/socialist/"progressives" (regressives) or whatever you call yourself never like answering that question of when life begins. You are brainwashed from a young age & just accept it as gospel that its OK to kill a human life just because you haven't become emotionally attached to that life, since the life cannot yet talk, walk or defend itslef. Ever study embryology? I have, part of that whole medical school curriculum. By the end of week 8 after fertilzation, all major organ systems are present, the third week after fertilization is when the vast majority if differentiation starts in the embryo and you see what rapidly starts to look like a human life. Week 5 is when the first heartbeat takes place.

You see, I take positions based on science & knowledge, people like you take postions based upon emotional (and many times, misguided) feelings. I'm a libertarian, if I was to make a utopian world, laws would be simple, if you harmed another person, there would be a penalty that was commensurate with the degree of harm caused. Do what you like, as long as you harm no other human, but abortion after the 8th week by anybody's standards is clearly murder. I always like to errr on the side of caution, so I believe its murder at week 3 after fertilization, probably before that.

DNA gets really complicated with an embryo (because the proliferation of cells are amazingly programmed at the beginning of life, when the fetus is just a handful of cells), but one thing I can tell you for certain, of the cells that make up the embryo, even before week three, you will not find one cell that matches the mothers DNA. So how do you justify that is the "woman's body"? Its a bunk argument, intellectually, you don't have a leg to stand on. Any women who is taking drugs/alcohol or any other tetragenic substance while pregnant (particularly during the first 8 weeks when the vast majority of birth defects from tetragenic substances occurs) should be locked up and thrown in jail because they have seriously injured or at least put at great risk, the life of another human being. Abortion doesn't affect my life on a personal level, so I usually don't debate people on it, but its flat out morally wrong by anyone's standards. Educate yourself, ignorance sucks!
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Old 10-18-2008, 17:12   #322
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PAgunner, way to totally misinterpret my words. Not sustain life without the social ramifications of a young child and her or his mother taking care of him or her... i am talking about physical sustainment of life like being able to breathe on their own, heartbeat, etc..

It is foolish to think that I am asserting that little kids are not alive because they cant live without a guardian... get real.
Please read above post (#321) if you would like to educate yourself.
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Old 10-18-2008, 19:05   #323
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Do you think Barack Obama has the necessary qualities to be President? If your a liberal, if you think your country is always wrong, and your a socialist, then yes barry barrack hussan obama is the perfect president.

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Old 10-19-2008, 10:26   #324
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PAgunner - the fetus CANNOT sustain life on its own physically without its mother. Period. if life begins 5 weeks after fertilization then why isnt a babies birthday 7 months early than it is documented when they are born?

the Constitution is a living and breathing document. God bless it.
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Old 10-19-2008, 14:53   #325
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PAgunner - the fetus CANNOT sustain life on its own physically without its mother. Period. if life begins 5 weeks after fertilization then why isnt a babies birthday 7 months early than it is documented when they are born?

the Constitution is a living and breathing document. God bless it.
So the constitution is "living" and a fetus is not "living" or its part of the woman's body despite my attempt to educate you by introducing the facts (not opinions) into your thought process? I informed you that DNA of cells that make up the embryo and subsequently the fetus do not match up with the mother's DNA, yet you tell me its the woman's body? Have you ever read the constitution? Weather you have or haven't, please go back and read article 5, then tell me where in that text it supports judicial activism? Amendments to the constitution are very rigid for a reason, if you read the text, its pretty dam obvious that the founding fathers never intended for judicial activism. Yes, the constitution can be changed via the proper route, the people you support and I suspect yourself want to back door socialism into this country. Ignorance is the most costly choice we as a people make in this country, and you are a prime example.
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42