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Old 04-18-2008, 09:22   #1
kurt_cobain
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Question about shipping firearms

Hi, I have a question about shipping firearms. My understanding is that it's illegal to ship across state lines. Is it ok to ship inside your state?

Also, what if you sent multiple shipments of a gun, but in different pieces at different times, is that still illegal? Thanks
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Old 04-18-2008, 09:26   #2
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It is not illegal to ship across state lines but you must ship it via UPS or Fedex to an FFL holder. As far as shipping within your own state, you would have to check on the laws of your state to see if it's allowable to do so.
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Old 04-18-2008, 09:29   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt_cobain View Post
Hi, I have a question about shipping firearms. My understanding is that it's illegal to ship across state lines. Is it ok to ship inside your state?

Also, what if you sent multiple shipments of a gun, but in different pieces at different times, is that still illegal? Thanks
Its not illegal to ship across state line if you are shipping to a FFL...I have shipped a few out of state before and its pretty easy.I would just take it directly to FedEx myself with a copy of the FFL I'm shipping it to and tell them it is a firearm...All firearms shipped through FedEx have to go overnite..which is roughly around the $50 price...If you take your gun to a gun shop that ships out they can use USPS Priority mail,but you can not do that yourself...Hope that was helpful
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Old 04-18-2008, 09:33   #4
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This link should answer your questions about shipping! Good Luck!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Sup...1118&NoCount=1
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:24   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pens-66 View Post
Its not illegal to ship across state line if you are shipping to a FFL...I have shipped a few out of state before and its pretty easy.I would just take it directly to FedEx myself with a copy of the FFL I'm shipping it to and tell them it is a firearm...All firearms shipped through FedEx have to go overnite..which is roughly around the $50 price...If you take your gun to a gun shop that ships out they can use USPS Priority mail,but you can not do that yourself...Hope that was helpful

EDITED

I was told locally that two day or even ground shipping but this seems not to be true based on the info in a post below. You must go directly to a FedEx Service Center, not a Kinko's or Mailboxes Etc...

I have known people who have shipped through Kinkos or even scheduled a pickup, but they never declared the item as a firearm. Using anything other than a FedEx Service Center is against FedEx rules and they probably won't cover you if it turns up missing.

Not that you would do this but federal law prohibits any marking on the package that indicate a firearm is inside.

It's always a good idea to abbreviate the name of the company or FFL that you are shipping to if it is appropriate and if thier name indicates the business they do. For instance Springfield Armory... I use S.A. and the address tells FE all they need to know.
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:38   #6
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Originally Posted by Picketeer View Post
This link should answer your questions about shipping! Good Luck!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Sup...1118&NoCount=1
EDITED

The is great info.

The info about FedEx seems to change from location to location. I went to great lengths to research this a while a back and the regs and policies that I was shown by a manager at the local SC said nothing about overnight shipping being mandatory. I have a good friend who is a director at FedEx and even he didn't know the answer. What I found was that you will get a different answer from just about everyone that you speak to there.

After all of the research I went to the local SC and declared what I was shipping (two firearms back to thier mfrs.) and he gave me the options and costs for shipping. I explained to him that I was shipping firearms and that they had to go overnight. The attendant told me that wasn't so and when I explained to him the background research I had done, he kindly said let's settle this and went to get the facility manager. The FM knew the reg and right where to go and showed me the requirements. They assured me that although there is a great deal of confusion on this issue that there is no requirement to ship overnight. THIS SEEMS TO BE INCORRECT BASED ON THE POST BELOW.

Maybe they too were wrong, but I have been shipping two day without an issue.
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Old 04-18-2008, 11:17   #7
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I deal with UPS and sometimes they dont know their own regulations. Its best to get on the web sites and copy the regs and have them with you.

UPS- shipping a pistol will be next day shipping , rifles and shotguns can go ground , if you dont have a lisence the rifle or pistol must go to a FFL or Manufacturer . If you have a C@R license ,have it with you and the C@R lisence of the buyer.C@R holders can ship C@R rifles and pistols out of state to other C@R holders or an FFL and receive C@R firearms to their home.

Go to the ATF web site and look for the firearms rules of your state for shipping within state and any rules for pistol registration .

You can also call the nearest state police post and ask them.
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:45   #8
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Straight from UPS website...

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...ch_phr=firearm

Quote:
Shipping Firearms

Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, or UPS Next Day Air Saver® services. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
Firearms, including handguns, and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally
Ammunition may be accepted for shipment internationally provided it is shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping International Goods.
UPS ReturnsSM Services are not available for packages containing firearms.

Follow These Packing Requirements
Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS.
Ammunition cannot be included in packages that contain firearms (including handguns). Ammunition must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials, or the UPS Guide for Shipping International Dangerous Goods.
Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments.

About Documentation and Labeling
The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.

Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS
You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call PickupSM, or at The UPS Store® or any third party retailer.
When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns, which are discussed above), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.
See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments.
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Old 04-18-2008, 13:27   #9
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Originally Posted by Thiokol View Post
It is not illegal to ship across state lines but you must ship it via UPS or Fedex to an FFL holder. As far as shipping within your own state, you would have to check on the laws of your state to see if it's allowable to do so.

Ok LOL... I didn't think I needed to mention that I am NOOOT an FFL holder. Geez - do you think I'd be posting this thread and asking the question if I were, or if I were shipping it to an FFL holder? Of course not... Sorry to be so harsh, dang.

I'm talking about shipping a gun to someone who has purchased one from me personally I'm not an ffl holder.

I'm kind of confused about the fed ex and ups - so it's ok to ship it fed ex and ups(as long as it's next day air) as long as it doesn't say that it's a firearm?

Also, would it be leable if I shipped him part of it one day, then the other part the next day? Or is that still illegal?
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Old 04-18-2008, 13:40   #10
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Originally Posted by kurt_cobain View Post
Ok LOL... I didn't think I needed to mention that I am NOOOT an FFL holder. Geez - do you think I'd be posting this thread and asking the question if I were, or if I were shipping it to an FFL holder? Of course not... Sorry to be so harsh, dang.

I'm talking about shipping a gun to someone who has purchased one from me personally I'm not an ffl holder.

I'm kind of confused about the fed ex and ups - so it's ok to ship it fed ex and ups(as long as it's next day air) as long as it doesn't say that it's a firearm?

Also, would it be leable if I shipped him part of it one day, then the other part the next day? Or is that still illegal?
There's no Federal law to keep you from shipping to someone in your state. As far as sending parts, at some point you're still going to send the serial numbered part, the frame, which is the gun.
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Old 04-18-2008, 13:40   #11
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Interesting question you pose.... The problems typically lies here....1) I don't know of any state (not saying there isn't one) that does not have a law requiring you to only sell a long gun to someone over 18 and a handgun to someone over 21. The problem with in state shipping would simply be....you have no way of identifying that person as you would FTF, thus making sure they have a valid state id. As a result, you could be shipping a gun to a 16 year old who has mailed you a copy of his dad's driver's license. You just can't tell when you are not FTF or shipping to an FFL. 2) UPS, FEDEX, and the Postal Service all require FFL's to ship a gun anywhere, not just out of state. I hope this helps!
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Old 04-18-2008, 13:44   #12
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Originally Posted by twogunjay View Post
2) UPS, FEDEX, and the Postal Service all require FFL's to ship a gun anywhere, not just out of state. I hope this helps!

UPS and Fedex don't require an FFL to ship a gun.
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Old 04-18-2008, 14:25   #13
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Originally Posted by william_h View Post
As far as sending parts, at some point you're still going to send the serial numbered part, the frame, which is the gun.
What if you've drilled out the serial number?

(kidding... I'm kidding LOL!)
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Old 04-18-2008, 14:38   #14
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Originally Posted by SCUBASIGGUY View Post
It is not required to ship the firearm overnight through FedEx, although this is a common misconception.
FedEx website says you must ship Priority Overnight and get Adult Signature. Kinko's would not take mine and when I took it to the appropriate drop-off center and told them it was a firearm they confirmed it had to be Priority Overnight with Signature.
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Old 04-18-2008, 15:06   #15
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Take it to your local FFL and let him ship it he can ship it USPS. Even if Fed-ex says you can ship via ground you can't. Also shipping to someone in state depends on your state & if it's a pistol or long gun. Whatever you do DO NOT ship to anyone other than a verified FFL with a signed in ink copy of their FFL in your posession across a state line. If you go to the ATF website you can verify an FFL's license.
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Old 04-18-2008, 15:10   #16
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SCUBASIGGUY,

It can be dangerous to present false information as fact. You should check your facts first. Fedex does indeed require priority overnight shipping. Here's their firearms trariff. Read it for yourself, especially paragraph C.

http://www.fedex.com/us/services/terms/us.html#firearms
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Old 04-18-2008, 15:29   #17
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UPS and Fedex don't require an FFL to ship a gun
Thats what I thought too. I was in FEDEX just today argueing about that. They said I need to ship it to an FFL. I'm still researching this.
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Old 04-18-2008, 15:30   #18
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Originally Posted by Thiokol View Post
SCUBASIGGUY,

It can be dangerous to present false information as fact. You should check your facts first. Fedex does indeed require priority overnight shipping. Here's their firearms trariff. Read it for yourself, especially paragraph C.

http://www.fedex.com/us/services/terms/us.html#firearms


I agree... I cannot believe all the false information floating around about something so important.

Do you think the guy at FedEx really knows all the rules? The FedEx website states that *PRIORITY OVERNIGHT* (not just overnight) is the only way for regular citizens to ship firearms to FFLs. This has been the rule for at least 3 years - because I've shipped a few over the past 3 years and check the rules everytime to make sure I'm not violating anything. Last time I read the rules on UPS, they did not accept firearms from individuals without FFLs or Collector Licenses for both the to and from parties. As far as I know, for the average Joe - FedEx Priority Overnight is the only way to go.

Aslo - Federal law requires you declare that the package contains a firearm to the desk clerk.
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Old 04-18-2008, 15:36   #19
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Thats what I thought too. I was in FEDEX just today argueing about that. They said I need to ship it to an FFL. I'm still researching this.
While I'm not sure if you need an actual copy of the FFL to ship the firearm - the rules clearly state you must ship to a licensed dealer or manufacturer.

Directly from the FedEx website:

Firearms

1. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
2. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.
3. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.
4. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.
5. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
6. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
7. G. FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
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Old 04-18-2008, 16:54   #20
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You don't need a copy of the receivers FFL to ship but how else are you going to make sure the person really does have a valid FFL? Unless it's going back to the manufacturer, 1st make sure the other persons FFL will even receive from a private party (a lot will not) then make sure you get a signed in ink copy of the receivers FFL then go to the ATF website to verify the persons license is still valid. Won't work with C&R licenses but all other it will. My understanding from UPS is it up to the manager at the center if they will accept. Kinko's can't take them only the main office. Make sure you insure it for every penny and have bill of sale and receipts to back it up. This is from someone who had a G17 stolen from Fed-Ex custody then had a hell'uva time getting them to pay off full value. BTW It has since been recovered and was used in a crime appx 3 hours from my house. It possibly has a body on it now.

Print out the instructions from either Fed-Ex or UPS's web site & take them with you. FFL holders can ship by post office a lot cheaper for you if yours will. Even if he charges you $30.00 to ship it's still cheaper than Fed-Ex at $50-125
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Old 04-18-2008, 22:18   #21
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Every time that I have shipped a firearm through either UPS or Fedex they have asked to see a copy of the recipient's FFL unless I was shipping it to the manufacturer.
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Old 04-18-2008, 22:39   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thiokol View Post
SCUBASIGGUY,

It can be dangerous to present false information as fact. You should check your facts first. Fedex does indeed require priority overnight shipping. Here's their firearms trariff. Read it for yourself, especially paragraph C.

http://www.fedex.com/us/services/terms/us.html#firearms

I agree and that certainly is not my intent. I shipped a pistol out on Wednesday from my local FedEx SC. I ask every time I go and I am certainly willing to pay for overnight shipping. I was told again that 2 day was fine and that I could even ship ground. I had a copy of the FFL and my TDL in the box and another copy of the FFL handy for the clerk and was told that they didn't need it.

As stated in my above post the manager there had previously shown me his copy of the reg and that line about overnight shipping was not present. It could just be that he has given his employees different instructions based on an outdated manual. The whole thing is pretty irritating to me. But at least locally, and I live in a big city, they are not requiring overnight shipping.

While I do want to comply with their rules, I didin't break any laws.

The first time I shipped two pistols back the mfrs. I used a FedEx Kinko's location as instructed per customer sevice on the phone??? They even have a file at the local Kinkos for copies of FFL's.

On top of it all I got home a week later to find the pistol shipped back from Kimber sitting on my front porch?

I know for certain that if you declare a value over a certain amount it automtically requires a direct signature, so I am not sure how that happened. I had to instruct Springfield to have the other pistol held at the FedEx SC for pickup to keep that from happening a second time.

Hard to believe that we don't have any FedEx employees as members here that can clear this up.

I will edit my previous post based on the rules listed above.
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Old 04-19-2008, 05:52   #23
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Even USPS

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

As a not licensed (an FFL-holder), you can send a handgun via common carrier, not the U.S. mail, and the recipient must be an FFL holder.

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Old 04-19-2008, 07:03   #24
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Kurt_Cobain-
No one has addressed this directly: You may ship "parts" most any way you like. HOWEVER, the part with a serial number is considered a firearm, and it has to go with Federal regulations. The ATF also considers a barrel that has a matching serial number a firearm.

Some of the confusion address above seems to be whether it is Federal Law or UPS/FEDEX regulations. Don't confuse the 2. Violating rules and regs will p*** off UPS/FEDEX. Clearly, they can't keep their own rules/regs straight. We don't want to anger the ATF. They can keep theirs straight.

As one poster mentioned, it may be cheaper to let your dealer send it, as he can use USPS. That is how I send ours out. Handguns can ship for $8.95 (or less), plus insurance.
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Old 04-19-2008, 16:12   #25
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Shipping Firearms

It is pitiful that the rules and policies have to be so confusing on such an important issues...especially when 95% of the confusion comes from people who take our money like UPS and FedEx employees.

For those who may not know, UPS began the Overnight policy to reduce theft by their employees. The theory is that a constantly moving package never has time to sit on a dock somewhere and the address (even though disguised) being recognized by a idle employee. Great, huh, a company solves an internal issue by forcing the customer to pay more.

After almost 30 years with an FFL, I can assure you of the following:

1. Never circumvent the law. Do what is right and sleep well at night.

2. UPS and FedEx rules are their rules, not law; but I still follow them. I rarely use either vendor since I almost always ship by USPS. I will ship a higher-dollar longgun by UPS since their Insurance is much more reasonable than that at USPS.

3. Anyone can ship a gun to an FFL anywhere in the USA. Non-FFL's cannot use the USPS; FFL's can. As far as the GCA 1968 is concerned, Puerto Rico is just like any other state.

4. Some FFL's will not receive a firearm from a non-FFL. I have never understood why. One fellow told me once it reduces the liklihood that a gun is stolen. That is absurd. I think some just like to throw their weight around.

5. Originally-signed copies of an FFL are no longer mandatory. A signed copy can be FAX'ed or a digital copy can be e-mailed to the shipper, individual or FFL, as long as it is legible. How long does a non-FFL shipper have to keep the FFL copy? Beats me. Once the FFL has the gun in his hands, there is no longer any reason for proof, but I'd keep in a file for awhile.

6. A gun cannot be legally shipped to any address other than the Premises Address on the FFL of the receiving dealer. While not required, I always include a copy of my FFL (or an individual could include a copy of the receiver's FFL) with the package with the firearm just in case a postal inspection is done along the way.

7. There is an ATF website where the authenticity of an FFL copy can be verified. I have never had one fail to prove valid; but the site was created for a purpose, so I check everyone to be sure.

8. Many FFL's run scared of the ATF; maybe some have cause to do so. I have been audited twice and have aided in 5-6 traces over the years. Every contact has been professional, courteous, and helpful.

9. Some FFL's will try to punish an individual by asking $50 or more to receive and transfer a firearm purchased from the Internet. That is their way of "encourging" you to buy from them next time. This will happen occasionally in a rural area where FFL's are scarce. Look elsewhere...

10. If you use an FFL to receive a firearm for you, make sure you understand ahead of time how sales tax will be handled. You are buying from out-of-state, and he is only providing a federally-required servce for a stated fee.

Maybe this will be of help to some...along with the other tips above. Read #1 again.
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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42