GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-20-2014, 20:09   #1
eab7-a
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
crimping

do you have to crimp your 40s&w reloads.
eab7-a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2014, 20:21   #2
steve4102
Senior Member
 
steve4102's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by eab7-a View Post
do you have to crimp your 40s&w reloads.
Yes and no.

You flare the case mouth to accept the bullet.

After you seat the bullet you should remove the "Flare".

Some do this with the seating die, some do this with a designated crimp die.

Either way removing the flare is a must IMO.

Call it a crimp if you wish, but in reality all that is needed it to remove the flare, the "crimp should not roll into, or distort the bullet it should just remove the flare plus maybe a thou or two.
__________________
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
steve4102 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2014, 20:53   #3
WeeWilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: PRK
Posts: 1,517
Excellent explanation.

The one exception to the above (that I can think of anyway), is when loading lead in 45 Auto for some 1911's. I have found "crimping" so right at the case mouth it measures .469-.470" (which will usually leave a slight tumble home profile to it, and will indent the bullet some) can help with feed ops.

But in general, the term "taper crimp" is a misnomer. I guess they called it a taper crimp because "bell removal step" just didn't have that certain ring to it.
__________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat
WeeWilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2014, 22:19   #4
M24C
Senior Member
 
M24C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 282
The 40 and the 9mm take the flair out. The 45 is different , just like WeeWilly said, the crimp is heavier. I crimp the 45 to .469 .
__________________
22C Gen 2, 17 Gen 2, 26 Gen 4, 30 SF
40 Club number #164
M24C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 17:08   #5
eab7-a
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
Thanks for the replays. I guess my question is how do I do it? I have rcbs carbide dies. The seater die is marked TC. So after I seat the bullet, how exactly how do I use the taper crimp? I load rifle bullets all the time. This is my first dealings with pistol reloading.
eab7-a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 20:16   #6
steve4102
Senior Member
 
steve4102's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by eab7-a View Post
Thanks for the replays. I guess my question is how do I do it? I have rcbs carbide dies. The seater die is marked TC. So after I seat the bullet, how exactly how do I use the taper crimp? I load rifle bullets all the time. This is my first dealings with pistol reloading.
If your die are new, you should have a detailed set of instruction that came with the dies.

If they are used or you are like me and loose paperwork all the time you can go here and get the instructions needed to set up your dies.

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instru...structions.pdf
__________________
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
steve4102 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 20:17   #7
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by eab7-a View Post
Thanks for the replays. I guess my question is how do I do it? I have rcbs carbide dies. The seater die is marked TC. So after I seat the bullet, how exactly how do I use the taper crimp? I load rifle bullets all the time. This is my first dealings with pistol reloading.
Screw the crimp die out a little until it does not make contact with a loaded round. Screw the die down until it does make contact, then turn the die down start out with to turn. Checking the round as you go until the bell on the case is removed. You do not need to crimp nor do you want to crimp the mouth of the case inward. Depending on the type of bullets used you can pull the bullet and see if you can see a grove in the bullet where the mouth of the case was. You want between no ring or a very slight ring on the bullet. Taper crimp if you go too far only loosens the grip of the bullet in the case it will not make it tighter.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 21:54   #8
PCJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL
Posts: 2,931
This is my method of setting a seating/crimping die, very similar to what UncleBob posted. I'd suggest you read this a couple of times to get the idea before actually doing it.

Start to screw your seater/crimp die into the toolhead or press. Place a case with a flared mouth in your case holder or shellplate and raise the ram to the fullest position. Screw the die body down until you feel it first touch the case - you'll feel some resistance. Back the die body out 2-3 turns. Lock it in place.

Lower the ram and place a bullet on the flared case. Raise the ram. Screw the seater stem of the die down incrementally, lowering the ram and checking the COL of the round frequently until you have seated the bullet to the correct COL. Lower the ram, leaving the round in the shellplate/holder. Back the bullet seater stem of the die out 4-5 turns [you need to be sure the seater does not contact the bullet in this next phase.]

Raise the ram with the round in the shellplate/holder. Unlock and screw the seater die body down until it just touches the case. Lower the ram, incrementally screw the die body in 1/8 - 1/4 turn and check the taper crimp (removal of the flare). Continue to lower the ram, making incremental 1/8 - 1/4 turn adjustments and rechecking the flare until you have just removed the flare. Lock the die body. With ram raised and round in the shellplate/holder, screw the seater stem down until it makes contact with the bullet.

Your seater/taper crimp die is now adjusted to both seat the bullet at the proper COL and to remove the flare to the degree you set the die for.

ETA: Items in red text to provide clarification.

Last edited by PCJim; 07-22-2014 at 20:05.. Reason: A couple of clarifications.
PCJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 07:19   #9
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,842
Yep I forgot if he is using a crimp die or seat and crimp die. Mine is just a crimp die and yours is seat and crimp die.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 22:51   #10
Yellowfin
Senior Member
 
Yellowfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lancaster Co, PA
Posts: 2,688
With my .40 loads I always run them through a Lee Bulge Buster because I use range pickup brass and inevitably some of them have that Glock barrel bulge that causes them to not chamber in my M&P's. I also run .45 through it as well. Never had a reason not to, the accuracy is excellent with my loads that I do with it.
__________________
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn Jilette
You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. It's insane!

Last edited by Yellowfin; 07-22-2014 at 22:53..
Yellowfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 06:58   #11
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,807
PCJim has the procedure exactly right. If you think it sounds a bit 'twiddly', that's because it is. Every minor change to the taper crimp requires and adjustment of the seating depth. This is a HUGE PITA.

Most reloaders give up on this process after the first or second round of adjustments and just buy a separate taper crimp die. I haven't seen 'every' progressive press on the market but I'd venture a guess that they all have a 4th station for the taper crimp die.

For people loading on a single stage, the combined die makes sense because a separate taper crimp die would require another pass through the press for each of the loaded rounds.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 09:03   #12
Dave T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Mesa,Arizona,USA
Posts: 2,690
The "PITA" mentioned above is one reason Lee makes their Factory Crimp die. It is another step but it produces ammo that feeds like factory and will not allow bullet set back during the trip up the feed ramp.

Dave
__________________
RSVN '69-71'
PCSD Retired

Last edited by Dave T; 07-23-2014 at 09:03..
Dave T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 11:54   #13
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
The "PITA" mentioned above is one reason Lee makes their Factory Crimp die. It is another step but it produces ammo that feeds like factory and will not allow bullet set back during the trip up the feed ramp.

Dave
And yet the pistol version of the FCD isn't highly regarded among many of the folks who hang out here. Among other things, it can attempt to post-size a loaded round - particularly lead reloads which are known to be 0.001" larger in diameter. This post-sizing can ruin neck tension.

A simple taper crimp die is all it takes. And, yes, Lee makes these dies as well. The one for .40 S&W is about $13 and that's about $6 less than the FCD

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/673...nd-w-10mm-auto

I do use the Lee FCD for my .223 ammo. It makes a nice crimp into the cannelure on my Hornady 55 gr FMJ bullets.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 11:58   #14
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
The "PITA" mentioned above is one reason Lee makes their Factory Crimp die. It is another step but it produces ammo that feeds like factory and will not allow bullet set back during the trip up the feed ramp.

Dave
The bullet is held in place by neck tension which is determined by the resizing die and neck expander. Once the bullet is seated, nothing done to the outside of the case can possibly improve neck tension.

All that is necessary is to close up the case mouth such that the case wall is a straight line. Maybe just a 'touch' more. In the case of plated bullets, it's important that the 'crimp' not leave a ridge in the jacket as it is very fragile.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin

Last edited by F106 Fan; 07-23-2014 at 12:52..
F106 Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 12:09   #15
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeWilly View Post
Excellent explanation.

The one exception to the above (that I can think of anyway), is when loading lead in 45 Auto for some 1911's. I have found "crimping" so right at the case mouth it measures .469-.470" (which will usually leave a slight tumble home profile to it, and will indent the bullet some) can help with feed ops.

But in general, the term "taper crimp" is a misnomer. I guess they called it a taper crimp because "bell removal step" just didn't have that certain ring to it.


Several High End manufactures recommend just that. It's a1911 thing.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 12:24   #16
WeeWilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: PRK
Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Several High End manufactures recommend just that. It's a1911 thing.
In a few of my 1911's, it is the difference between my LSWC's feeding and not feeding. Other profiles seem less finicky with regard to crimp in the same 1911's, but I just leave the crimp die set to .469".
__________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat
WeeWilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 14:08   #17
Colorado4Wheel
Senior Member
 
Colorado4Wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 14,301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
The "PITA" mentioned above is one reason Lee makes their Factory Crimp die. It is another step but it produces ammo that feeds like factory and will not allow bullet set back during the trip up the feed ramp.

Dave
And just exactly how does it perform this feat of MAGIC.
__________________
Steve
Colorado4Wheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 16:22   #18
unclebob
Senior Member
 
unclebob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Mary Esther FL
Posts: 6,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
And just exactly how does it perform this feat of MAGIC.
Fairy dust.
__________________
Team Carver Custom
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Life Member
GSSF Life Member
___________________________________________
unclebob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 16:54   #19
Andrew Tacquard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: S. MD
Posts: 739
Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
And yet the pistol version of the FCD isn't highly regarded among many of the folks who hang out here. Among other things, it can attempt to post-size a loaded round - particularly lead reloads which are known to be 0.001" larger in diameter. This post-sizing can ruin neck tension.

I've been using my FCD with 10mm for a while and lead loads, I haven't noticed any issues. I do not use the crimp part of the die, I back it out totally. I was using the post size after seating to remove the flare. If the sizing die creates the tension by making the correct diameter, how does the post sizing on the FCD ruin the neck tension. I know many folks on here don't like the FCD and have bad luck with. I did put my taper crimp die back in and was unhappy with it. I probably didn't give it enough time adjusting it; as I knew I could throw my FCD back in and it would work (as it worked before and it required no adjustment just put it in). I've only loaded 10mm in pistol, and maybe just lucky or it works with the 10. I am purchasing a 9mm soon and will expand my loading. Not trying to argue or persuade anyone to use the FCD, just trying to learn.
Andrew Tacquard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 18:01   #20
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Tacquard View Post
I've been using my FCD with 10mm for a while and lead loads, I haven't noticed any issues. I do not use the crimp part of the die, I back it out totally. I was using the post size after seating to remove the flare. If the sizing die creates the tension by making the correct diameter, how does the post sizing on the FCD ruin the neck tension.
If it works for you, use it. I'll just continue with what I have...

If the FCD touches the neck area of the case, it will swage the bullet inside the neck. This will have the effect of removing the neck tension that was created when a large bullet was pushed into a smaller neck.

If you're not using the crimp part of the die, what are you using it for? The case should have been properly sized at station 1 (resizing), the neck resized and belled at station 2 and the bullet pushed into the case at station 3. All that remains is to close up the portion of the case mouth that was belled to facilitate seating the bullet at station 4. For most pistol cartridges, all this takes is a simple taper crimp die. I say 'most' because there are a couple of calibers I have never loaded. .357 Sig among them...

Remember, most of us were reloading pistol calibers for decades before the FCD came along and, somehow, we managed without it. I'm pretty sure I'm remembering that right...

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is online now   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:12.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,036
302 Members
734 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42