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Old 04-25-2009, 14:08   #126
CraigsG19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFrameFred View Post
.

Guess I'm not a tough guy - if I'm in a fight for my life I'm going to feel undergunned with anything that isn't shoulder fired . . . . or crew served
+1 ... Hard to argue this logic.
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Old 04-25-2009, 16:27   #127
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Originally Posted by NFrameFred View Post
...it's too heavy, it's blah, blah, blah - not WITH you.

Guess I'm not a tough guy - if I'm in a fight for my life I'm going to feel undergunned with anything that isn't shoulder fired . . . . or crew served

So make the necessary sacrifices to carry a better weapon, consistently. That isn't so hard to do.

In the event of a fight, feeling undergunned? Almost certainly. Actually being undergunned? Not necessarily, and only if you let yourself be. That was the whole point of this thread's discussion. Usually, there are better choices which will be far less likely to fall short of the need than a 5-shot snub.
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Old 04-25-2009, 20:03   #128
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NO.....not really. For two reasons.....I can carry more than one.....and I can also carry my Glock 19. I think I have most of it covered.
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:44   #129
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I have a Glock 27 that I carry, but I feel just as good with my S&W 442 loaded with 158 grain SJHP. If your in the process of being robbed the bad guy will be surprised and shocked when you pull your weapon and at the sound of the first shot he will be running as fast as he can. Five bullets will be plenty even with two bad guys. They are not going to stick around and shoot it out with you.
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:03   #130
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But................what if

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Originally Posted by frankr View Post
I have a Glock 27 that I carry, but I feel just as good with my S&W 442 loaded with 158 grain SJHP. If your in the process of being robbed the bad guy will be surprised and shocked when you pull your weapon and at the sound of the first shot he will be running as fast as he can. Five bullets will be plenty even with two bad guys. They are not going to stick around and shoot it out with you.
What if the two of them both are packing high cap and have many more chances at you then you do at them? (just playing Devil's advocate)
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Old 05-16-2009, 17:55   #131
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Nope, no the least bit undergunned. I carry a 642 everywhere with me. Though I'm looking for detective special as I usually end up carrying IWB. The 642 will stick around as a pocket or ankle gun when dress requires.

Of course, tactics are the thing to keep in mind. Most of my friends carry Sigs, Glocks, XDs, and then there's me, with my little snubbie. They laugh, until I explain it to them. The snub goes everywhere with me, and anywhere on my person. They can't do that and don't always carry. They leave the gun the car, at home, whatever. If I'm wearing pants, I've got my snub with me. My snub serves one purpose, get me out of immediate danger. This gun's purpose is to end a confrontation quickly or, failing that, get my assailants duckin' and movin' and get me back to my car. There I can either:

A.) Get the heck outta there. Then call the cops once I'm far enough away that I feel safe.

B.) Grab the CZ outta the car and either finish the fight or stay in it until I can safely disengage.

The snub does have its limitations. Plan around them and you are not undergunned.

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Old 05-16-2009, 18:18   #132
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About 75% of all gunfights occur at 10 feet or less. That's BEFORE we're even talking about the odds of running into a situation where the other guy(s) even has a gun. I don't feel undergunned with a snubby but I would feel undergunned with my Glock19 sitting at home because it's 90 degrees out and I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt.
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Old 06-06-2009, 19:36   #133
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A J-frame is effective but think of this!

A J-Frame has 5 rounds and is slow to reload compared to say a Glock 19.

It has 1/3 the rounds and less powerful rounds at that.


A derringer had 2 rounds which is 40% of what a Colt Single Action Army carried when loaded with 5 rounds as was typical for safety.

SO we are effectively carrying the modern equivalent of a deringer compared to the more effective arms of our times.

That being said I would rather most people carry J-Frames because they are MUCH more forgiving against NEGLIGENT gun discharges.
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Old 07-19-2009, 13:14   #134
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3 rounds, 3 feet, 3 seconds

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Originally Posted by Dandapani View Post
3 rounds, 3 feet, 3 seconds.
My dad would talk about this scenario being most common. He had 25 years with Dallas TX police dept. I train often with this in mind.

We're on summer vacation at our beach house and I have my snubbie and
keep Glock 19 cached. Snubbie in my cargo pocket (Nemesis holster) and
loaded with Hornady Critical Defense ammo. I practice regularly and feel
very confident for any scenario may occur in the area we're in (extremely
low crime rate). http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=786 Folks in
our community look out for each other and most all ccw.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:35   #135
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Interesting discussion. Valid points made on all sides.

I have carried ONE J-frame when off-duty for many , many years... and never felt "undergunned". I felt that way for the same reason I never felt undergunned when carrying a six-shot revolver in uniform... any encounter would be one-on-one, two-on-one at most; and if I couldn't handle it with six rounds, well, it just wasn't my day. I had the snubby as a back-up, but the odds were that if I didn't win in those first six magnum rounds, I probably wasn't going to.

Later, when I got into plain clothes, I carried TWO J-frames; one as a primary, the other as a back-up. And felt adequately armed.

Times have changed. It usually takes an epiphany of some sort to change an old-timer's mind who is set in his ways. Mine happened at the local "bad mall' (there are two in the BR area) where the bride and I stopped in one Saturday evening to get something unobtainable at the 'good mall'.

The place was overrun with wanna-be gangsta thugs who collected in groups of five or more... and were looking for something to keep their limited attention spans engaged. For the first time, I felt nearly naked... even with a J-frame in my pocket and six extra rounds in a speed strip in a belt pouch.

I normally don't go to that mall, period... for that reason. Before Katrina, the local trash pretty much kept to their own areas. Since Katrina, these pieces of cancer (many from New Orleans, who stayed here) have infested the whole town.

I now carry a G19 AND a J-frame everywhere. Its a crying shame, but at least I'm getting my head in gear for The Revolution....

.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:30   #136
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Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
Interesting discussion. Valid points made on all sides.

I have carried ONE J-frame when off-duty for many , many years... and never felt "undergunned". I felt that way for the same reason I never felt undergunned when carrying a six-shot revolver in uniform... any encounter would be one-on-one, two-on-one at most; and if I couldn't handle it with six rounds, well, it just wasn't my day. I had the snubby as a back-up, but the odds were that if I didn't win in those first six magnum rounds, I probably wasn't going to.

Later, when I got into plain clothes, I carried TWO J-frames; one as a primary, the other as a back-up. And felt adequately armed.

Times have changed. It usually takes an epiphany of some sort to change an old-timer's mind who is set in his ways. Mine happened at the local "bad mall' (there are two in the BR area) where the bride and I stopped in one Saturday evening to get something unobtainable at the 'good mall'.

The place was overrun with wanna-be gangsta thugs who collected in groups of five or more... and were looking for something to keep their limited attention spans engaged. For the first time, I felt nearly naked... even with a J-frame in my pocket and six extra rounds in a speed strip in a belt pouch.

I normally don't go to that mall, period... for that reason. Before Katrina, the local trash pretty much kept to their own areas. Since Katrina, these pieces of cancer (many from New Orleans, who stayed here) have infested the whole town.

I now carry a G19 AND a J-frame everywhere. Its a crying shame, but at least I'm getting my head in gear for The Revolution....

.
Sadly I find myself supplementing the J frame with a G26 or G19 myself. Times are changing. Add the fact that I have done so much professional training with my son using the G19 and G26 I feel kind of foolish not carrying one with at least one extra magazine. As for clothing, I find I can wear any kind of clothing and find a way to stash the G26 and an extra mag, even in swimtrunks (think SmartCarry).

It gets down to threat assessment. Although a retired detective from a large Southern California Sheriff's Dept. I am double dipping as a crime scene investigator for a smaller agency. I carry a G26 and an extra mag concealed on that job. I have got so used to that weapon that when I'm not working I just carry it appendix style under a T-shirt whether wearing shorts or Levis. It has never been noticed that I know of.

I have been a long time revolver guy. Carried a Smith and Wesson Combat Masterpiece six shot .38 for the first 13 years in patrol. I didn't feel undergunned with that. I also carried a backup Chief Special five shot .38 with a dehorned hammer.

The thing is that Glock is just soooo reliable....and all those extra rounds....why do I feel like a traitor?
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Old 08-02-2009, 16:06   #137
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Not a traitor - just a more thoughtful, better prepared sheepdog. Thank you for your service, and your candor.
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Old 10-21-2009, 20:01   #138
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No, if it's all I got, I would use it to my advantage.
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Old 11-07-2009, 13:56   #139
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Do You Feel "Undergunned" carrying the Snubbie

My bestfriend betrayed me. She was one of the only people I was close to, she was like a sister and a haven away from my not so perfect home life. She stole my first love from me, whom I gave everything to. Needless to say, I was depressed, hurt, suicidal tendencies, yadayada. I was alone except for them because my ex and I were the only ones to fail our grade Laziness and we only knew each other really, and she was the only one who would visit us. Imagine yourself being in that situation, its not pretty. I knew it would never work, and it didnt. Eventually I forgave her. Were friends again. My ex and I are friends again. We dont hang like we used to, but we talk. Its funny how she thinks I want to take her bf from her. Paranoia much, its like thats payback because she felt somewhat guilty. I mean, if theyre broken up, then yeah. On top of that, when she was dating my ex, he tried to sort of do some things I can not really say with me, tried. I stood stock still when he kissed me, not kissing back but not stopping him either. Just bored, I didnt even provoke him.But yeah, were all good now. All is forgiven. Funny thing is, forgiveness is for you, not them. If you forgive them, youre relinquishing any sort of control they had on your life. You feel better when the anger subsides. Chances are, if theyre going to do something to you like what happened in my or your situation, either you both had a major misunderstanding, your friendship wasnt as strong as you thought, or the friend just simply isnt worthy of you.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:55   #140
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My bestfriend betrayed me. She was one of the only people I was close to, she was like a sister and a haven away from my not so perfect home life. She stole my first love from me, whom I gave everything to. Needless to say, I was depressed, hurt, suicidal tendencies, yadayada. I was alone except for them because my ex and I were the only ones to fail our grade Laziness and we only knew each other really, and she was the only one who would visit us. Imagine yourself being in that situation, its not pretty. I knew it would never work, and it didnt. Eventually I forgave her. Were friends again. My ex and I are friends again. We dont hang like we used to, but we talk. Its funny how she thinks I want to take her bf from her. Paranoia much, its like thats payback because she felt somewhat guilty. I mean, if theyre broken up, then yeah. On top of that, when she was dating my ex, he tried to sort of do some things I can not really say with me, tried. I stood stock still when he kissed me, not kissing back but not stopping him either. Just bored, I didnt even provoke him.But yeah, were all good now. All is forgiven. Funny thing is, forgiveness is for you, not them. If you forgive them, youre relinquishing any sort of control they had on your life. You feel better when the anger subsides. Chances are, if theyre going to do something to you like what happened in my or your situation, either you both had a major misunderstanding, your friendship wasnt as strong as you thought, or the friend just simply isnt worthy of you.

WTF!?!

Like listing to Dr. Phil
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Old 11-13-2009, 13:06   #141
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I saw a pic of Rob Leatham in a gun mag recently. When did he get so fat? He used to be really thin. WoW.
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Old 11-13-2009, 13:15   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarCrazyo View Post
My bestfriend betrayed me. She was one of the only people I was close to, she was like a sister and a haven away from my not so perfect home life. She stole my first love from me, whom I gave everything to. Needless to say, I was depressed, hurt, suicidal tendencies, yadayada. I was alone except for them because my ex and I were the only ones to fail our grade Laziness and we only knew each other really, and she was the only one who would visit us. Imagine yourself being in that situation, its not pretty. I knew it would never work, and it didnt. Eventually I forgave her. Were friends again. My ex and I are friends again. We dont hang like we used to, but we talk. Its funny how she thinks I want to take her bf from her. Paranoia much, its like thats payback because she felt somewhat guilty. I mean, if theyre broken up, then yeah. On top of that, when she was dating my ex, he tried to sort of do some things I can not really say with me, tried. I stood stock still when he kissed me, not kissing back but not stopping him either. Just bored, I didnt even provoke him.But yeah, were all good now. All is forgiven. Funny thing is, forgiveness is for you, not them. If you forgive them, youre relinquishing any sort of control they had on your life. You feel better when the anger subsides. Chances are, if theyre going to do something to you like what happened in my or your situation, either you both had a major misunderstanding, your friendship wasnt as strong as you thought, or the friend just simply isnt worthy of you.
It's probably better if you don't carry or even have a snubbie at this point....................
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Old 11-13-2009, 16:18   #143
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"My bestfriend betrayed me. She was one of the only people I was close to, she was like a sister and a haven away from my not so perfect home life. She stole my first love from me, whom I gave everything to. Needless to say, I was depressed, hurt, suicidal tendencies, yadayada. I was alone except for them because my ex and I were the only ones to fail our grade Laziness and we only knew each other really, and she was the only one who would visit us. Imagine yourself being in that situation, its not pretty. I knew it would never work, and it didnt. Eventually I forgave her. Were friends again. My ex and I are friends again. We dont hang like we used to, but we talk. Its funny how she thinks I want to take her bf from her. Paranoia much, its like thats payback because she felt somewhat guilty. I mean, if theyre broken up, then yeah. On top of that, when she was dating my ex, he tried to sort of do some things I can not really say with me, tried. I stood stock still when he kissed me, not kissing back but not stopping him either. Just bored, I didnt even provoke him.But yeah, were all good now. All is forgiven. Funny thing is, forgiveness is for you, not them. If you forgive them, youre relinquishing any sort of control they had on your life. You feel better when the anger subsides. Chances are, if theyre going to do something to you like what happened in my or your situation, either you both had a major misunderstanding, your friendship wasnt as strong as you thought, or the friend just simply isnt worthy of you."

What does this have to do with any guns in the first place? I don't think this person needs any model of a firearm!
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Old 11-13-2009, 18:10   #144
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I have heard people say the snubbie is very convenient to carry but they felt undergunned while relying on it alone. When you consider your lifestyle-- where you go in your personal and business affairs, is this really an issue?

I make a point of staying out of situations and places I know have a credible and probable likelihood of a confrontation with criminals. Just about all of us have an area in town you want to stay out of. Having carried a gun both in patrol and as a detective for 30 years I don't feel undergunned with the J-Frame. I would have had to be deaf and blind not to get a "street sense" in all that time. I wasn't sitting behind a desk. The snubbie suits me just fine now that I am retired. I practice often with it and am fast and accurate with it. Fast in shooting and in reloading. Nothing unique there, just a matter of practice.

How many of you feel comfortable with just the snubbie when you go out and how many of you feel undergunned?
You hit it on the head. Situational awareness is priority #1. I regularly carry a concealed S&W 637 with a CT LaserGrip. I don't feel outgunned.

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Old 11-29-2009, 10:25   #145
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OP, you asked, so I'll give my opinion, for whatever it's worth. I live in a small town with a low crime rate, and my lifestyle choices further reduce my likelihood of becoming a crime victim.

But I wouldn't feel comfortable only carrying a 5-shot anything. Five shots of any handgun caliber is IMO marginal for dealing with only a single opponent, and completely inadequate IMO for multiple opponents.

I do carry a 642 loaded with Speer Short Barrel +P 135 gr GDs or CorBon +P 110 gr DPXs, but it's as a backup in the weakside front pocket to my G34 strongside in an IWB holster. The 642 is there in case my strongside arm becomes disabled or otherwise unavailable, or the G34 runs out of ammo, has a stoppage, or in case the encounter just happens at too short a distance to allow drawing the G34. I carry a spare mag for the G34 but no reload for the 642. Overkill? Maybe, but I'd much rather have too many options in a serious social encounter than too few.

But to each his own. If a person is comfortable with a snubbie, that's his/her business, not mine.
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Old 11-29-2009, 20:07   #146
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Originally Posted by glockess56 View Post
"My bestfriend betrayed me. She was one of the only people I was close to, she was like a sister and a haven away from my not so perfect home life. She stole my first love from me, whom I gave everything to. Needless to say, I was depressed, hurt, suicidal tendencies, yadayada. I was alone except for them because my ex and I were the only ones to fail our grade Laziness and we only knew each other really, and she was the only one who would visit us. Imagine yourself being in that situation, its not pretty. I knew it would never work, and it didnt. Eventually I forgave her. Were friends again. My ex and I are friends again. We dont hang like we used to, but we talk. Its funny how she thinks I want to take her bf from her. Paranoia much, its like thats payback because she felt somewhat guilty. I mean, if theyre broken up, then yeah. On top of that, when she was dating my ex, he tried to sort of do some things I can not really say with me, tried. I stood stock still when he kissed me, not kissing back but not stopping him either. Just bored, I didnt even provoke him.But yeah, were all good now. All is forgiven. Funny thing is, forgiveness is for you, not them. If you forgive them, youre relinquishing any sort of control they had on your life. You feel better when the anger subsides. Chances are, if theyre going to do something to you like what happened in my or your situation, either you both had a major misunderstanding, your friendship wasnt as strong as you thought, or the friend just simply isnt worthy of you."

What does this have to do with any guns in the first place? I don't think this person needs any model of a firearm!
After reading this persons other posts, I'd have to agree.


A 22 year old retired veteran who now works corrections in Fla.???
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Old 12-13-2009, 21:45   #147
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My usual EDC is my G27, but in the past when I have been out and about carrying my 5-shot snubbie I still felt comfortable. I have shot the heck out of that thing and I am very comfortable and confident with what I can do with it. My opinion is as long as you are well trained with a specific firearm you can be effective with it.
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Old 01-25-2010, 20:53   #148
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I carry an all stainless 640 with .357 magnum (plus an extra speed strip)...so no I do not feel undergunned with 10 rounds of .357. My thinking is if I need more than 10 rounds of .357 I was being a dumb ass, not thinking at all and deserve to where I am.
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Old 01-30-2010, 15:18   #149
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My S&W 342 has served me well and it would get me though most situations if it came down to it. I have carried it alone in the past but If I can carry more gun I will now days. I cant help but think about a situation like standing in line at the gas station when two guys with guns walk in...or im out at a late movie and some pshyco walk in with an AK47.

Granted either situation is bad and a larger gun dosent mean you will win. But going into a gun fight i would father have more gun.

Do I feel under gunned with the revolver? No not really. But to be honest I feel a little more confident with my kahr PM9(7+1) and an extra mag. It's only 3 more rounds I know.
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Old 03-11-2010, 22:03   #150
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I love my 442 and have been carrying it more and more recently. I'm actually thinking hard about using it for EDC in lieu of my LCP.

That being said, I'm not looking for any crazy shootout. If I ever have to shoot, I'm going to run the first chance I get. Fast.

When I get about 6 miles away, I'll reload with one of the two speed strips I keep so handily in my back pocket.

As other have said, never ever let your guard down. Look everywhere always and if something seems off, trust your gut and act accordingly.
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