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Old 03-16-2008, 16:31   #61
Reb 56
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Depending on the situation there are times & places i would rather have Glock 26 with 11 rounds of gold Dot 124+p than 5 shots. Though I like my 642. In Malls,large open areas such as Parks and wooded areas I"ll carry G26.

If going to local Grocery,Pharmcy or walking neighborhood in daylight 642 does it. I simply shoot glock better.
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Old 03-16-2008, 17:29   #62
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And yes, I agree - one is undergunned carrying only a snub. That was the point.
My main contention was that you can never assume to have the advantage. That can lead to complacency, that's all.

If you're telling people a 10, 15, or 20 round auto will NOT leave them undergunned, I still disagree. ANY handgun is a compromise. In the unfortunate event I have to fire shots to defend myself or my family, I'd much rather have an AR/AK/shotgun than any handgun. Even then, I might still wish for more! Of course, keeping an AR in your waistband isn't practical. But you'll still be undergunned without one.

It's just a fact of life that when shots are fired, you'll ALWAYS be undergunned for comfort. The question, is how much compromise can you live with, as they're ALL a compromise. And I CAN live with the snub as a compromise sometimes. Though I'd much rather have it backed up by pepper spray and a Louisville Slugger, and have it backing up a G26, backing up a G19, backing up an AR, etc. Then again, if we knew shots would be fired, we'd probably just stay home.

It's just different strokes, my man, we're all good!!
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Old 08-15-2008, 20:03   #63
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Competence in your firearm, situational awareness and street smarts are the most important aspects to personal protection and they trump caliber and knockdown statistics every time the defecation hits the rotary oscillator.

Do I know everything......hell no, but I am getting training from reputable sources, practicing with my firearms as often as possible and making the training realistic.

I don't feel under gunned with a 5 shot at all.
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Old 08-16-2008, 20:44   #64
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I have faith in in my SW642 and if harm does come there will be dead perps.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:14   #65
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I think all the responses here have been excellent!

To specifically answer the original question...Sometimes I do.

Badguys in my area are starting to travel in packs and are committing their crimes in gangs...Everything from bank roberies,home invasions,and even muggings on bicycle/jogging trails are being carried out by 3-4 thugs. Some gangs ARE training-(MS13) if you believe the hype.

I'll pitch this out for fodder: Consider using the 5 doser as your 1st line of defense- in a fast access pocket...and have your 17 rounder in deep concealment-say a shoulder rig. In the winter I always carry a pocket gun I can get to in a hurry; and under a sweatshirt I've got a shoulder rig on that's gonna stop most fights.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:36   #66
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You'll never convince most of the snub enthusiasts on this board that they aren't perfectly well-armed with 5 shots out of a tiny wheelgun.

"None is so blind as him who will not see."
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Old 08-20-2008, 08:39   #67
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I carry a snub, (or a .380 LCP) most of the time and don't feel "undergunned".
As others have said, if a fight started, I'd probably feel undergunned if I had an AK.

I've seen police dashcam videos where an officer emptied his hi-cap auto at contact distance and missed every shot.
Higher ammo capacity may give you a survival edge, or it may not.
In any of those situations, I bet the officer would have rather had one hit than 15 misses.
As the old saying goes, "You can't miss fast enough to win the fight.".

I practice with all my guns, and I'm probably a better shot than most thugs I may encounter.
Still, there's a better chance I'll need O.C. spray than a gun.
(Still haven't gotten around to carrying it all the time.)

When I only had larger guns, I usually left them at home.
I'd rather have 5 accurate shots in my pocket than 15 shots at home, or in the truck.

Years ago, I had just gotten my CCW permit, and was at the range/gunstore for some practice.
There was a younger guy in the lane next to me with a large auto, and a large new shoulder holster.
I wondered then if he would ever wear that rig for an actual day out.
(Here in East Tennessee, we only get below 40 degrees 2 months out of the year.)
I've got a shoulder holster too, and I think I've worn it once in 15 years.

Carry whatever meets your comfort level, and hope you never have to use it.
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Old 08-20-2008, 20:35   #68
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This is truly the thread that just won't die, so I guess I'll finally weigh in. Do I feel undergunned? No. Is a snub adequate? I guess that depends on a lot of things. But I also feel as some others do that it's better than nothing at all, meaning that I'm more likely to carry my 442 day in and day out than I am a higher capacity, harder to conceal weapon and end up in a situation where I "should have carried that night" but didn't because it wasn't convenient. I'd rather be armed with five shots of something at all times than 15 shots or no shots at all sometimes.
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:13   #69
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As a matter of fact, yes, I do. I will be carrying a gun - not all of them may be. I have been extensively trained and am an experienced firearms/close combat instructor - I doubt they are. I practice a lot - not all of them do, most probably. I will seize the initiative - denying it to them. I will seek and use cover - unless they have been well-trained (an unlikely probability), they may very well not.

But none of that will matter if I run out of ammo after 5 rounds. "If you can't get the job done with the first six, what makes you think you will "fair" (sic) any better with the next 6?" It was a 7-10 round job, that's what.

Is carrying two wheelguns really better than carrying one good hi-cap semiauto? And if you think you will be reloading 20 rounds into a snub or two, you are the one who is dreaming. Good luck with that.

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean that anyone else can't. Train a little - you will be surprised to learn what can be done - with the proper tools.
There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. "Close Combat Instructor" or not, most of the trained people I know, or have known, will tell you that things never go as you expect them to. If you have real QCB training then good for you. However, those who have practiced with thousands of rounds per week, running room clearance techniques or hostage rescue scenarios, will tell you that even with that training, the difference between a successful op. and an unsuccessful one is instinct. Combat situations are fluid and mostly chaotic.

Regarding snubbies. I have had the privilege of using many firearms in my many years. At this moment, with my lifestyle and where I live, my .44 Special is what I carry most. In the unlikely situation that I'm attacked by six BG's bent on doing me harm, then I may get one or two. Packing a G17 would only serve me better if the the remaining four stood still and compliant. In other words, in situations where multiple aggressors are involved, I'm toast. Where one or two are involved, then I will probably hurt them.

Trust your instincts.
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Old 08-21-2008, 16:33   #70
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Ask those same people you know if 5 rounds in a hard-to-shoot package are enough in a multiple-attacker scenario, no matter WHAT their level of training or instinct. The factors you cite are exactly why a better weapon is called for. You are missing the point. If the tool isn't up to the job, all else is meaningless.

To clarify - I said a snub isn't enough. Some snubby defender said basically "well, if it's more than two guys, you couldn't win anyway, so why carry more"? I refuted that, explaining why one man winning over three or four is indeed possible. Instead of carping about the size of my ego, it would be more profitable to draw the appropriate conclusion - a 5-shot snub is a marginal weapon at best, and it can leave one severely undergunned given modern realities.

Sheesh.
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Old 08-23-2008, 20:28   #71
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A snubby is a good summer pocket gun, when you can't carry a Glock, but I would rather be armed with a G-23/26. I'm beginning to prefer pocket carry(I use my G-26 in parka weather). You can have your hand on your weapon as you enter higher risk areas such as parking lot or stop 'n' robs. I think of parking lots as the watering holes of urban America.
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Old 08-25-2008, 13:23   #72
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Ask those same people you know if 5 rounds in a hard-to-shoot package are enough in a multiple-attacker scenario, no matter WHAT their level of training or instinct. The factors you cite are exactly why a better weapon is called for. You are missing the point. If the tool isn't up to the job, all else is meaningless.

To clarify - I said a snub isn't enough. Some snubby defender said basically "well, if it's more than two guys, you couldn't win anyway, so why carry more"? I refuted that, explaining why one man winning over three or four is indeed possible. Instead of carping about the size of my ego, it would be more profitable to draw the appropriate conclusion - a 5-shot snub is a marginal weapon at best, and it can leave one severely undergunned given modern realities.

Sheesh.
Not missing the point, I don't think. The tool I carry daily is up to the job I'm most likely to encounter. It's unlikely that I'll be called on to take on a swarm of Al-Qadea goblins at Publix or Home Depot.

If in the extremely unlikely situation that such an encounter happened, I'd most likely not do anything that would endanger other lives. Trained or not, engaging multiple targets in combat situations is best left to the professionals. Police Constable Trevor Locke used good judgment in such a situation at the Iranian Embassy, in London.

I apologise for bruising your ego. I was merely trying, in my clumsy way, to caution you in not overestimating your abilities. Terminating say four armed persons, is indeed possible, but not probable. If the four persons are switched on and armed, you will probable not survive the encounter. Such encounters are the stuff of legend; four Provo IRA players ambush a DET operative in N.Ireland. Instead of his MP5-K, the operative could only use his Hi-Power. His superb training, his quick reactions and appraisal of prioritising his targets made him the victor. Provo's zero, security forces four.

Back to the OP. My lifestyle today and where I live does not warrant more horesepower/firepower than my trusty .44. If that changes, then I will go back to another choice. Sorry again.
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Old 08-25-2008, 14:40   #73
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I do not believe the question asks, "Are you undergunned carrying the Snubbie?" Aren't we all potentially undergunned?

I believe the question asks, "Do You *Feel* "undergunned" carrying the Snubbie?"

Therefore, the answer, "I do not *feel* undergunned carrying the snubbie" is indisputable. Unless, of course, you can measure an individual's feelings.

I *feel* no less undergunned with my snubbie than with any handgun I carry for self defense purposes.

Snub sales? Must be because they suck?

By the way, this is a snubbie forum. If you are opposed to the snubbie, go somewhere else and play with your bucket of bullets.
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Old 08-25-2008, 19:44   #74
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At times this has been a tiring thread. One important aspect is the capability of the "end user." As an overweight man approaching 60 who fired his first firearm only five years ago, I have come to the conclusion that the most I am capable of carrying regularly is a Kahr PM9 or a J-frame snubbie in my front pocket. Losing 100 lbs. or finding the fountain of youth might change things, but I am not holding my breath.... Since I will never be an "operator," I can imagine being outgunned - and "feeling" outgunned - in lots of crime scenarios. So what? Other leaner, fitter, (probably) younger folks realistically have the option of regularly concealed-carrying a larger capacity semi-auto in 9mm, .40S&W, .45GAP, .357SIG, or .45ACP for IWB, OWB, shoulder-carry holsters, that is, more realistically than I do.

So I practice as much as I can with all sorts of semi-auto pistols of various sizes, and shotguns, and semi-auto rifles,.....and with my snubbie. If I am attacked in my house I will not feel outgunned. Anywhere else, the best I can manage is my snubbie in a pocket.
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Old 08-26-2008, 13:58   #75
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Gunboat, I still like my Snubs but, I never carry just one. Usually I carry Two or Three Snubs. After thinking about what you said I went out and bought a Glock 26. Now if I feel like carrying only one gun I take the Glock. This doesn't happen very often so I keep it in my truck in case I run into a major road hazard. I have Two mags that came with it and and picked up Three more for G17. It's a cute little thing kind of like a Snub nosed Step Child. Now when I practice in the woods shooting at multipall targets, it gets interesting.

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Old 08-26-2008, 16:20   #76
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Thirty some years ago a close friend told me of a situation in a parking garage elevator.He was accosted by two unsavory individuals while pocket carrying a model 49 in his army style jacket.He won in this situation and made a believer out of me.I've never been without a 49,649,640,or 642 from that point on.Do I feel undergunned with a snub nosed revolver.No I don't.YMMV.tom.
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Old 08-26-2008, 17:23   #77
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Gunboat, I still like my Snubs but, I never carry just one. Usually I carry Two or Three Snubs. After thinking about what you said I went out and bought a Glock 26. Now if I feel like carrying only one gun I take the Glock. This doesn't happen very often so I keep it in my truck in case I run into a major road hazard. I have Two mags that came with it and and picked up Three more for G17. It's a cute little thing kind of like a Snub nosed Step Child. Now when I practice in the woods shooting at multipall targets, it gets interesting.
Glad to hear you found something valuable to consider in the discussion. The G-26 is a GREAT gun, and is a terrific compromise when you want to carry a small weapon that still packs a potent punch and offers good capacity. It is startlingly accurate and much easier to hit quickly and well with than most revolvers. A G-26 and a spare hi-cap mag is a better choice than multiple snubbies, IMHO. I think you made a super choice.
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Old 08-26-2008, 17:36   #78
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Oct 2, 1996. I was commanding our investigations. One of my agents found out one of our fugitives was holed up in a local hotel. He was reportedly heavily armed and had made comments he wouldn't be taken alive. I was off duty at the time heading into town to meet my wife for dinner when I got the call. I had stuck my 649 in my pants and I had 2 speed loaders in the car when I left home. 15 rds total. I rolled our SWAT team and we set up to make entry. I was posted next to the hotel door and the team made entry. When the guy with the ram popped the door the subject opened up on us with a TEC-9 in one hand and a Colt Mustang .380 in the other, firing both as fast as he could work the triggers. Sounded like full auto. In just a second or 2 he fired 11 rds at us before the door swung back closed. Seconds later he put a .380 thru his head.
I can tell you that when those 11 rds were coming at us that 649 seemed like the smallest gun in the world. I was wishing for my 870 or an AR, anything bigger than a 5 shot .38.
11 months later we had a mentally ill woman barricaded in her house who fired at us 4 times with a 12 ga loaded with Federal sabot slugs. At that time I had my 870 and that 870 seemed pretty small as her slug tore thru a wall next to us.
That's just 2 of the times I was under fire while a LEO and shows the extreme I had on me at the time, once a .38 snub and the next a 12 ga shotgun. Neither seemed big enough nor held enough rds.
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:49   #79
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I would need a very big and thick wall.
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Old 08-30-2008, 20:25   #80
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No...I mostly carry a snubby..I have three Semi's a G-19 and a G-36 and a 1911, the rest are wheel guns,the gun I carried tonight was a Rossi 720 in 44 Spec. loaded with 200gr. HPs and I had one speed loader."If you need more than 5 shots, your in the wrong gunfight"
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