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Old 09-01-2007, 13:38   #41
Timor
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I decided I would carry as soon as I legally could after reading the original Washington Post article about the following incident (copied from "http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html").


Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: "For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers."

The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen."
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Old 09-01-2007, 14:55   #42
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This is why: http://youtube.com/watch?v=uWZ7bB7_OEk



But more seriously:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/guns/gun-ethics.html
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Old 09-01-2007, 15:17   #43
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I carry because:

1) I can
2) Virgina Tech - Extreme violence can happen in the blink of an eye
3) I live within 50 miles of Detroit
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Old 09-01-2007, 17:03   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by grishnav
This is why: http://youtube.com/watch?v=uWZ7bB7_OEk



But more seriously:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/guns/gun-ethics.html
Sorry, this is a bit off topic....but that YouTube staged video is utterly ridiculous. It looked authentic enough in the first moments, until the Toyota boys rolled up next to the BMW and exchanged poorly rehearsed words. What's not funny--totally irresponsible, in fact--is that there were numerous people commenting on YouTube that evidently thought this was the real deal!! Is that funny?? No, not when you consider all the glaring errors these guys wrote into their script.

The last thing we need is people thinking that this is what CCW is all about--egging on your antagonists, then luring them out into the backwoods, and then robbing them at gunpoint. This wasn't lawful self-defense; it was armed robbery!



Maybe I'm taking this a bit too seriously, but when I see people actually buying this bill of tainted goods and consider how serious a matter this is, I don't tolerate it. Will someone please confirm that this video is staged? Regardless, it isn't funny.

BTW, grishnav, thanks for the other link. Good stuff.
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Old 09-01-2007, 17:10   #45
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Will someone please confirm that this video is staged? Regardless, it isn't funny.
Yep, it's staged. If you go to the website in the upper-right corner of the video, it states that they had the idea, and set it up after about 10 minutes of planning.

And all I kept thinking when I was watching it was about all the opportunities he had to run/call the police. But come on, it was still pretty funny!
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Old 09-01-2007, 19:57   #46
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I was robbed at gunpoint at work. Pretty scary stuff, I actually had to have a seat afterwards because I almost fainted. Luckily nobody was hurt. This experience sparked my interest in firearms. Though these kind of situations are probably rare, I feel better having a gun at my side. A CCW gives everday good people a figthing chance when otherwise left at a criminals mercy. It's a great right to have indeed.
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Old 09-01-2007, 20:09   #47
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I didn't really have any defining moment, I just always liked 1911's so I bought one when I turned 21 and got my CCW.

I guess watching cop shows like "Law & Order" might have had something do with it. Almost every Law & Order episode starts with someone finding a dead body... not with police showing up to stop a crime in progress.

I figure when the police are drawing chalk outlines and flagging brass casings... I rather be the one whose brass they are flagging rather than the one getting the chalk outline.
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Old 09-01-2007, 21:07   #48
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I did because it seems about every 2 years someone commits a bad crime when I'm right there...

bad luck I guess
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Old 09-01-2007, 21:23   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Creeper1313
I figure when the police are drawing chalk outlines and flagging brass casings... I rather be the one whose brass they are flagging rather than the one getting the chalk outline.
Boo-yeah. Great point.
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Old 09-01-2007, 22:25   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by grishnav
Yep, it's staged. If you go to the website in the upper-right corner of the video, it states that they had the idea, and set it up after about 10 minutes of planning.

And all I kept thinking when I was watching it was about all the opportunities he had to run/call the police. But come on, it was still pretty funny!
I guess it would've helped to read the description of the video. My bad.

But still, it wasn't very funny. Apparently, I'm not the only one who didn't read the description, because a lot of people thought it was real.
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Old 09-01-2007, 23:31   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by EddieMossberg
I was robbed at gunpoint at work. Pretty scary stuff, I actually had to have a seat afterwards because I almost fainted. Luckily nobody was hurt. This experience sparked my interest in firearms. Though these kind of situations are probably rare, I feel better having a gun at my side. A CCW gives everday good people a figthing chance when otherwise left at a criminals mercy. It's a great right to have indeed.
Damn right! The scary part is the citizens that get a CCW and never practice after that...
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Old 09-01-2007, 23:42   #52
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My right to privacy, my eligibility for CCW and being discreet, i.e. my customers may not feel comfortable if they knew I carried a gun. And there's no benefit for me in testing those waters with them.
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Old 09-01-2007, 23:56   #53
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Originally posted by DepStocky
Damn right! The scary part is the citizens that get a CCW and never practice after that...
I agree with you 100%, I always try to encourage people who have choosen to arm themselves, either CCW or for home defense, that thier responsabilty didn't end with the purchase, or certificate. And that being a responsable gun owner means taking the time to train on a consistant basis.
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Old 09-02-2007, 00:08   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by grishnav
Yep, it's staged. If you go to the website in the upper-right corner of the video, it states that they had the idea, and set it up after about 10 minutes of planning.

And all I kept thinking when I was watching it was about all the opportunities he had to run/call the police. But come on, it was still pretty funny!
I couldn't find where they told about the staged planning on that web site. Either way, there were plenty of mongrel idiots that were lapping it up like it was the coolest thing, according to the comments I read on YouTube. If some of those morons are watching the video and making it their "defining moment" for CCW, then it gets un-funny real fast.

No flame intended, grishnav. Just sounding off...again.
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Old 09-02-2007, 00:23   #55
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:04   #56
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No real defining moment, happened over time.

About 12 years ago, I was awakened to someone trying to break into the house. I loaded up a shotgun and would likely would have shot him if he made it through the window before the police got there.

Also, sold a guy an old car once, and he later called saying it broke down on him, and that I owed him something. I offered to pay for parts, he wanted cash, so I began to suspect a different need for the money (based on other details I won't get into). He claimed to have some "connections", and that I would be getting a visit from them. Scared the hell out of me. Again, felt much better with a shotgun in the house.

These and other smaller incidents got me thinking more seriously about personal protection, self defense training, etc., but I never considered CCW an option. I somehow got the impression that this privelege was reserved for others with a greater need. Man, I was blind.

I eventually moved, and had to find a new barber. Turned out he also had an FFL, and we discussed hunting, firearms, etc. Eventually a discussion of CCW came up. I leared from him that all I had to do was apply with the local Sheriff and take his class. I learned our Sheriff was very much in favor of a responsibly armed citizen. Totally changed my outlook. I received my permit in April of this year. I joined a club with a private indoor range about 45 minutes away where I can practice. I've read books on the issue and became an NRA member. I've also learned that many good people in this state (Iowa is "may issue") do not enjoy the privilege of the 2A, simply because their local Sheriff does not want them armed.

Needless to say, I've become very interested in the political side of things, and much more aware of how our personal freedoms have been eroded. Too many men have died to obtain and preserve our freedom for me to just sit around and watch them slip away.

Sorry for the lengthy post. Once I got started I just couldn't stop.
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Old 09-02-2007, 14:13   #57
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As others have said, there was no real defining moment.


One moment was when a neighbor tried to break into my parent's and I's home when I was just a little boy and having that feeling of helplessness.

Another moment was watching a video of individuals beat a truck driver into senselessness with a fire extinguisher in sociology in highschool. (This one is probably the closest to the defining moment. I watched that and kept thinking "If I was there, I could've helped him. Maybe I'd get hurt, but I'd still be helping him." I guess you'd say that's also when the seeds of wanting to be a cop were sewn.)

Another moment was working at the police department and while at the grocery store in my off hours having a guy come up and try to pick a fight with me because I was the one he gave the money to when he paid his ticket (I was a dispatcher and accepted money for fines for the court).

I already had a pistol when that last ordeal happened, but I came home after that and searched the internet until I found CCW classes fairly close to home.
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Old 09-02-2007, 14:14   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patronus
I couldn't find where they told about the staged planning on that web site.
In the upper-right corner of the video itself is a small text-box with the text "wittkopp.net". Browse to http://wittkopp.net/ for the (brief) discussion.

Quote:
Either way, there were plenty of mongrel idiots that were lapping it up like it was the coolest thing, according to the comments I read on YouTube. If some of those morons are watching the video and making it their "defining moment" for CCW, then it gets un-funny real fast.
I would venture to guess that all of the idiots on youtube have never handled a gun and aren't licensed (if applicable) to carry. Most of them are in there early teens, and still have many years ahead of being stupid and irresponsible (likely, largely before they can legally purchase a firearm). They are also likely the vocal minority: After all, did you post a comment saying what happened was inappropriate, irresponsible, and criminal? I know I didn't...

Once you actually do choose to take on the responsibility of owning (and carrying) a firearm, the gravity of it becomes much more intense, and your outlook tends to change. Often rapidly.

The other small percentage are either irresponsible or criminal (or both), and this video isn't going to inspire them to do something stupid/criminal they wouldn't have eventually ended up doing anyway.

It's good that your sense of responsible ownership compels you to react so strongly, but suspend it for a moment (just like you would for a big Hollywood movie in a theater), and it's actually pretty funny. Well, according to my sense of humor, anyway. We all have different tastes.

Quote:
No flame intended, grishnav. Just sounding off...again.
It's all good.

Last edited by grishnav; 09-02-2007 at 14:21..
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Old 09-02-2007, 14:53   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by grishnav
In the upper-right corner of the video itself is a small text-box with the text "wittkopp.net". Browse to http://wittkopp.net/ for the (brief) discussion.



I would venture to guess that all of the idiots on youtube have never handled a gun and aren't licensed (if applicable) to carry. Most of them are in there early teens, and still have many years ahead of being stupid and irresponsible (likely, largely before they can legally purchase a firearm). They are also likely the vocal minority: After all, did you post a comment saying what happened was inappropriate, irresponsible, and criminal? I know I didn't...

Once you actually do choose to take on the responsibility of owning (and carrying) a firearm, the gravity of it becomes much more intense, and your outlook tends to change. Often rapidly.

The other small percentage are either irresponsible or criminal (or both), and this video isn't going to inspire them to do something stupid/criminal they wouldn't have eventually ended up doing anyway.

It's good that your sense of responsible ownership compels you to react so strongly, but suspend it for a moment (just like you would for a big Hollywood movie in a theater), and it's actually pretty funny. Well, according to my sense of humor, anyway. We all have different tastes.



It's all good.
Yeah, all's well that ends well. If I were them, I would've shown some of the footage of them laughing about it at the end. That would've "made" the video for me. I was probably more ticked off that I was sort of believing it was real up to a certain point--I think the "aha" moment was when the hicks were talking to the girl in the car. Something didn't seem right. Whatever. I'm not the sharpest of minds.

Also, I'm apparently not too plugged into the YouTube audience. I've spent some time watching stuff there, but I rarely read the comments, and this was one of the few times I actually read comments.
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Old 09-02-2007, 16:01   #60
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I decided to carry because of rival drug dealers.
That was a long time ago.
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